TX - James, 48 & Michelle Butler, 46, driving RV to Fort Lauderdale from Corpus Christi, 14 Oct 2019

[otto]

Why would the Mexican cartel be involved in murdering a couple, stealing their vehicles and driving them to Mexico? What is to be gained?

The vehicles cannot be used to commute across the border anymore. What is the upside of stealing them when they are attached to two murders?

 

[zecats]

I lived in the Bluff, about a mile and a half from that PO (and I went there a few days before that). I left Texas on Oct. 17th. The Bluff is known for its bad side, but I don't think it was someone from there. I think it was drug runners.

The granddaughter was supposed to open it Oct 17th. That means James and Michelle mailed it before that date, maybe 2-3 days earlier? You may have been there the same day they were.

 

[zecats]

Why would the Mexican cartel be involved in murdering a couple, stealing their vehicles and driving them to Mexico? What is to be gained?

The vehicles cannot be used to commute across the border anymore. What is the upside of stealing them when they are attached to two murders?

Agreed. I feel the motive was to steal the truck and sell it. Maybe same with the RV, or perhaps even live in it. Only connection to Mexico is the fact that the killer drove across the border. Does that mean he is Mexican? Not necessarily. Maybe just has family there.
The killing of a middle-aged couple is disturbing to say the least. Who needs to do that in order to steal a vehicle and drive 4 hours away to another country? This person is ruthless, heartless, and seems to value his own interests over human life. I can see why some here are thinking Cartel, as they have that rep.
But I too am wondering why?

 

[Herat]

Agreed. I feel the motive was to steal the truck and sell it. Maybe same with the RV, or perhaps even live in it. Only connection to Mexico is the fact that the killer drove across the border. Does that mean he is Mexican? Not necessarily. Maybe just has family there.
The killing of a middle-aged couple is disturbing to say the least. Who needs to do that in order to steal a vehicle and drive 4 hours away to another country? This person is ruthless, heartless, and seems to value his own interests over human life. I can see why some here are thinking Cartel, as they have that rep.
But I too am wondering why?

This is a very good question.

How many other trailer and truck rigs like this are out there between the Pier and Del Rio border crossing that could be stolen?

The perps were at that beach for a reason and I'm beginning to come around to drug smuggling by boat on the beach, perps realize there is a trailer and vehicle nearby that may have witnessed something. Realize these are people they can overpower and commence their murders and robbery.

Also, it appears there were no searches of the truck or vehicle going into Mexico so who knows what else the trailer was loaded with to bring into Mexico

 

[Mojito]

I wonder if Jim was a collector of firearms or something valuable that he had inside the rv, and the killer(s) heard Jim/Michelle talk about it .
I have a friend who rv's with a big stash of guns under his bed where the storage is big enough to stow three or four humans. My friend goes to gun shows while on the road. Buys sells. Still doesn't answer why the rv was taken when it was so risky to do if you already had the pick up truck.

Maybe the crime scene was inside the rv and the killer wanted to remove the evidence that way.
Seems ridiculous but I just can't think like a killer.

 

[zecats]

I wonder if Jim was a collector of firearms or something valuable that he had inside the rv, and the killer(s) heard Jim/Michelle talk about it .
I have a friend who rv's with a big stash of guns under his bed where the storage is big enough to stow three or four humans. My friend goes to gun shows while on the road. Buys sells. Still doesn't answer why the rv was taken when it was so risky to do if you already had the pick up truck.

Maybe the crime scene was inside the rv and the killer wanted to remove the evidence that way.
Seems ridiculous but I just can't think like a killer.

I considered that as well, that the crime scene was inside the camper. However, the bodies were not very well hidden, so killer almost didn't seem worried about their being found.

Could be evidence leading to killer was inside. Horrible images coming into my mind with that statement.

This crime is a worst nightmare scenario. It frightens me just thinking about it. Truly RIP Michelle and James.

 

[sapoho]

I live an hour south of Del Rio, on the border.
Going into Mexico is easy. No passports needed, no searches, no need to “know people”. You pay the bridge fee and go on over. All the security at the bridges on the US side is for people coming BACK into the US.

There are also various Border Patrol checkpoints on the main highways coming to the border (hwy 90, 57, 277). They don’t stop and check people coming towards the border, but they are equipped with cameras, capturing all the traffic going through. However, there are backroads to get around these checkpoints if you know the area.

There are also a couple alternate routes to Del Rio from the Corpus area. These side routes are sparsely populated, not heavily patrolled, and mostly frequented by oil field workers. If they took one of these off-the-beaten-path routes, these criminals probably drove right by my house

 

[BeanieBod]

I understand that the Border Patrol uses cameras on both the outbound and inbound lanes capturing license plate images, etc. Their system stores the image, location, date and time of each plate. The plate numbers are digitized to a tracking system that is monitored for the travel frequency of a vehicle.

I still wonder why LE has not released an image of the drive so we can help.

 

[zecats]

I live an hour south of Del Rio, on the border.
Going into Mexico is easy. No passports needed, no searches, no need to “know people”. You pay the bridge fee and go on over. All the security at the bridges on the US side is for people coming BACK into the US.

There are also various Border Patrol checkpoints on the main highways coming to the border (hwy 90, 57, 277). They don’t stop and check people coming towards the border, but they are equipped with cameras, capturing all the traffic going through. However, there are backroads to get around these checkpoints if you know the area.

There are also a couple alternate routes to Del Rio from the Corpus area. These side routes are sparsely populated, not heavily patrolled, and mostly frequented by oil field workers. If they took one of these off-the-beaten-path routes, these criminals probably drove right by my house

Another mention of oil fields. I wonder where in Texas Michelle and James had been working?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wa...w-hampshire-couple-police-say/?outputType=amp

“After working on Texas oil rigs to fund their travels, she said, they were about to move to Florida and sell Christmas trees, “to do something different.”

 

[sapoho]

Another mention of oil fields. I wonder where in Texas Michelle and James had been working?

The two main oil regions are the Permian Basin in West Texas, and the Eagle Ford Shale in the south.

 

[Herat]

sapoho-

It's sure helpful to have a local expert.

A policy of Websleuths is to verify those who give factual information about locations or people. You probably need to contact the moderators verify your location.

 

[Steelslady]

I wonder if this means that he was killed first, and she was killed last. Maybe there's DNA on her body that will connect to a suspect?

"On Oct. 27, a woman’s body was found buried in a shallow grave on the Texas beach where the Butlers were last seen camping, officials with the Kleberg County Sheriff’s Office told the news media. A day later, authorities discovered a man’s body underneath."​

https://www.washingtonpost.com/crim...long-missing-new-hampshire-couple-police-say/

This is so sad.

I am so sorry for their family and friends. My thoughts and prayers are with you all.

This makes me so angry. A couple just minding their own business, enjoying life and traveling, and some monster takes their lives and is God knows where. I hope LE finds them soon and justice is served on behalf of James and Michell. May they rest in peace.

 

[The Night Watchman]

sapoho-

It's sure helpful to have a local expert.

A policy of Websleuths is to verify those who give factual information about locations or people. You probably need to contact the moderators verify your location.

sappho gave an informative post that is helpful to the discussion, but I don't think anything needs to be verified. The poster gave local information that is a pretty common occurrence on different threads on WS, IMO.

 

[nao]

I would guess they had to take the rigs across at just the right time, with the right people on duty, on the U.S. side..... San Antonio is a big town with lots of hiding places and Cartel power....moo

 

[nao]

They do not say they know people..but they know area..do not think you have to be verified for that?

 

[ElementalLaura]

I’ve been following this with concern. I occasionally boondock with my two dogs in a vintage trailer. I’m armed but that’s no guarantee that you can avoid bad situations.

I was discussing this with my roommate (especially the possible time delay between the murders and the border crossing). He wondered whether the crimes could be separate. James and Michelle are murdered, then an opportunistic thief later takes the truck and rv after observing that no one seemed to be tending to them.

My thoughts are with their family and loved ones.

 

[zecats]

I’ve been following this with concern. I occasionally boondock with my two dogs in a vintage trailer. I’m armed but that’s no guarantee that you can avoid bad situations.

I was discussing this with my roommate (especially the possible time delay between the murders and the border crossing). He wondered whether the crimes could be separate. James and Michelle are murdered, then an opportunistic thief later takes the truck and rv after observing that no one seemed to be tending to them.

My thoughts are with their family and loved ones.

I tend to think it’s all the same person(s) as I feel the truck and probably the RV too were the motive.
Even if James and Michelle were murdered for some and other reason, IMO those killers helped themselves to the vehicles.

 

[sapoho]

I did check the threads, locals are no longer verified, only insiders and professionals.
I can only really add insight to the bridge procedures, sadly showing how simple it is to get a vehicle over there, especially if it has not been reported stolen yet

 

[happyday]

They do not say they know people..but they know area..do not think you have to be verified for that?

Pretty sure locals do not have to be verified—only people with a connection to the actual case.

 

[Cryptic]

The Mexico aspect is troubling as far as an arrest.... The arresting Agent said, “I remember when I first saw him at the bar in Mexico drinking a beer. 10 minutes later he was in custody being taken back over the border.

I agree that the Mexico aspect can be troubling. But there are rays of hope:

- Mexican extradition law is very different for non citizens than for citizens. If the perpetrator(s) are not Mexican citizens, they will not have any legal protection.

- Mexico is probably not the Mexico of impulsive fugitive imaginations. Not only could there be language and cultural differences, but Mexico is not a poor country on a global level. Thus, fugitives don't really get to enjoy beach front cabanas, beer or Pina Coladas and the company of admiring women all for a few dollars a day with no end in sight.

- Mexico is, of course, very dangerous. US fugitives on limited budgets could quickly learn that 'Boondocking" in Mexico far too dangerous to stomach as they actively risk becoming victims of the very crime they perpetrated.

- My guess is that Mexican law enforcement infrastructure has improved. While they may need nudging or being pointed in the right direction, computer usage can be traced, cell phones 'pinged', check point cameras reviewed etc far more easily than in the past.