Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #116

[Charlot123]

Very much a possibility, plus they're now insisting it's someone from the immediate area or someone very familiar with that part of Carroll County.

Early on references were made to a possible hitch hiker, and maybe someone carrying a backpack or other bag of some sort or another. I never thought the former, but the latter is a possibility.

Then the bogus sketch came out and threw people off. I never thought the BG could be much over age 40, yet here we were convinced it was some (using a phrase I've picked up since living here) ate up older middle-aged guy who's angry enough to want to go around murdering teens, when in reality we could be looking at someone around half the age of what we thought.

I think there's a real possibility LE were thrown off in the beginning, could have been a tip that sounded suggestive in nature, but who knows? I just have a hard time reconciling the vehicle parked by C.R. 300 and LE not mentioning it early on. Just seems weird to me, and one would think they would have wanted to get information about the identity of its owner or whoever was driving it. This is not new information, it was known early on and LE sat on it.

Which brings to mind another issue, and it just kind of popped into my head. Why wouldn't they be hungry for information on the vehicle and its driver early on, vs. releasing the poor audio released a week after the murders? Not just poor audio, but they released "down the hill" without "Guys". Why not just hold on to the audio for a bit, and instead focus on the vehicle and other pertinent stuff early on? Makes no sense to me.

No mention of a vehicle for over two years. Even if they had a detailed description, they could have just asked about a vehicle being parked there.

Here we were thinking BG was some ate up older guy with major issues in his life, when in reality it could be a young-looking and sounding young man. This whole time. 100+ threads later.

Let this year be the year, for the victims in this case, their families, their community.

1) They are all distant relatives. They are a close-knit community. A farmland. Maybe for small, close-knit societies, it is hard to even believe that one of their own could be a killer, and such a heinous one? Not a meth deal gone bad, no, a heinous murder of two innocent teenagers.

So I think initially, they hoped it was an outsider, and that guided their search. A mistake, but understandable.

2) As I have said, I am sometimes thinking that the people involved are - not politicians, not police, not wealthy people - but someone who is/was/still is a role model for the community and society in general. And I am not necessarily thinking it is a priest or a teacher, but someone who has dedicated his life and money to helping others? Someone who looks very selfless? This is when it would be very hard to accept that this person could be a killer.

 

[JnRyan]

Very much a possibility, plus they're now insisting it's someone from the immediate area or someone very familiar with that part of Carroll County.

Early on references were made to a possible hitch hiker, and maybe someone carrying a backpack or other bag of some sort or another. I never thought the former, but the latter is a possibility.

Then the bogus sketch came out and threw people off. I never thought the BG could be much over age 40, yet here we were convinced it was some (using a phrase I've picked up since living here) ate up older middle-aged guy who's angry enough to want to go around murdering teens, when in reality we could be looking at someone around half the age of what we thought.

I think there's a real possibility LE were thrown off in the beginning, could have been a tip that sounded suggestive in nature, but who knows? I just have a hard time reconciling the vehicle parked by C.R. 300 and LE not mentioning it early on. Just seems weird to me, and one would think they would have wanted to get information about the identity of its owner or whoever was driving it. This is not new information, it was known early on and LE sat on it.

Which brings to mind another issue, and it just kind of popped into my head. Why wouldn't they be hungry for information on the vehicle and its driver early on, vs. releasing the poor audio released a week after the murders? Not just poor audio, but they released "down the hill" without "Guys". Why not just hold on to the audio for a bit, and instead focus on the vehicle and other pertinent stuff early on? Makes no sense to me.

No mention of a vehicle for over two years. Even if they had a detailed description, they could have just asked about a vehicle being parked there.

Here we were thinking BG was some ate up older guy with major issues in his life, when in reality it could be a young-looking and sounding young man. This whole time. 100+ threads later.

Let this year be the year, for the victims in this case, their families, their community.

I'm also baffled about the vehicle near the CPS building and why LE waited over 2 years to ask the public about it. Assuming they knew about the vehicle then. Or maybe it was in an early tip and missed or there was a communication error within the investigative team that misled LE to believe the vehicle had been identified. Trying to get help from the public over 2 years later means memories may have faded. I wonder if the lot at the CPS building has been used by other trail users.

 

[Charlot123]

Thanks for the article. We'll see how frequent this really is.

Well, mitochondrial disorders are usually severe. And these kids that were described inherited maternal and paternal mito DNAs because the mechanism of suppressing paternal mitochondria during conception was faulty. So it is the "fault" of mitochondria themselves, or something around them. So, I'd assume the process is rare, but not exclusive to these cases. However - how often minor forms of mitochondrial disorders end up undiagnosed? We don't know this much, and so many new rare syndromes have been discovered.

The BG guy looks generally OK, but has an odd gait, he is smart enough it seems but could be slightly on the spectrum, he either has OCD or self-dialoguing... you see what I mean? He might suffer from someone we do not factor in, he may not even know about his problem.

(As I have said, if I were the LE, I'd show his gait to Mayo clinic neurologists and ask what they think. It is not normal, but he runs fast, so it must be something very rare).

I posted this article to explain how come there may be roadblocks that people can not even explain. But apparently, whatever we thought to be 100% true - we get our mito DNA from mothers - may not always be so.

 

[Spartygirl]

I'm also baffled about the vehicle near the CPS building and why LE waited over 2 years to ask the public about it. Assuming they knew about the vehicle then. Or maybe it was in an early tip and missed or there was a communication error within the investigative team that misled LE to believe the vehicle had been identified. Trying to get help from the public over 2 years later means memories may have faded. I wonder if the lot at the CPS building has been used by other trail users.

Yes, it has been used for trail users, even now with the building gone
That is where we parked when we have gone there.
In the wide open area and open to everyone that drives by.

 

[Ozoner]

There is another option - that he just got off on the thrill.

Agreed—there isn't always a trigger.

 

[Falling Down]

I'm also baffled about the vehicle near the CPS building and why LE waited over 2 years to ask the public about it. Assuming they knew about the vehicle then. Or maybe it was in an early tip and missed or there was a communication error within the investigative team that misled LE to believe the vehicle had been identified. Trying to get help from the public over 2 years later means memories may have faded. I wonder if the lot at the CPS building has been used by other trail users.

I wonder now about the vehicle, and the sketch. They had information about the vehicle early on, and the "new" sketch was made by the end of the first week of the investigation.

Just seems odd to me. A vehicle description, albeit a vague one, was released 9 months into the Evansdale case. LE stated they wanted 3 credible descriptions from witnesses in that case before they released a vehicle description. I can guarantee at least 3 people could have described the vehicle in question in the Delphi case, considering it was along a rural road close to Delphi on a sunny day, by both the main trail and trailhead, and by IN 25.

Why sit on that for two years?

JMO

 

[MJPeony]

I wonder now about the vehicle, and the sketch. They had information about the vehicle early on, and the "new" sketch was made by the end of the first week of the investigation.

Just seems odd to me. A vehicle description, albeit a vague one, was released 9 months into the Evansdale case. LE stated they wanted 3 credible descriptions from witnesses in that case before they released a vehicle description. I can guarantee at least 3 people could have described the vehicle in question in the Delphi case, considering it was along a rural road close to Delphi on a sunny day, by both the main trail and trailhead, and by IN 25.

Why sit on that for two years?

JMO

Great questions, and I share them! Perhaps the car is part of shoring up their case and an alibi that they now don’t believe. For example, they knew about the car early on, checked it out, but now that they have a specific suspect in mind and they need to place him at the scene. Someone they previously cleared perhaps (that’s what I’m inclined to think).

Like I said in my recent post, I’m considering everyone a suspect again at this point! LE said they were starting over and have gone with a different strategy and now there is a different sketch. They are just beginning they said. So they have something about that car they originally dismissed but now believe it’s pertinent. I think it’s related to them knowing who BG is.

MOO.

 

[PaulaDC]

Very much a possibility, plus they're now insisting it's someone from the immediate area or someone very familiar with that part of Carroll County.

Early on references were made to a possible hitch hiker, and maybe someone carrying a backpack or other bag of some sort or another. I never thought the former, but the latter is a possibility.

Then the bogus sketch came out and threw people off. I never thought the BG could be much over age 40, yet here we were convinced it was some (using a phrase I've picked up since living here) ate up older middle-aged guy who's angry enough to want to go around murdering teens, when in reality we could be looking at someone around half the age of what we thought.

I think there's a real possibility LE were thrown off in the beginning, could have been a tip that sounded suggestive in nature, but who knows? I just have a hard time reconciling the vehicle parked by C.R. 300 and LE not mentioning it early on. Just seems weird to me, and one would think they would have wanted to get information about the identity of its owner or whoever was driving it. This is not new information, it was known early on and LE sat on it.

Which brings to mind another issue, and it just kind of popped into my head. Why wouldn't they be hungry for information on the vehicle and its driver early on, vs. releasing the poor audio released a week after the murders? Not just poor audio, but they released "down the hill" without "Guys". Why not just hold on to the audio for a bit, and instead focus on the vehicle and other pertinent stuff early on? Makes no sense to me.

No mention of a vehicle for over two years. Even if they had a detailed description, they could have just asked about a vehicle being parked there.

Here we were thinking BG was some ate up older guy with major issues in his life, when in reality it could be a young-looking and sounding young man. This whole time. 100+ threads later.

Let this year be the year, for the victims in this case, their families, their community.

In the very beginning at an outdoor presser they do ask people for tips and do mention if you have seen a car. Don't know if that was a hypothetical question or if they knew there was a vehicle back then.

 

[Vesta66S]

Sorry but this post will add little, if anything:
The other week I had a dream. In the dream I was watching the video of BG. He kept walking closer and closer. Finally, I could see his face. I woke up terrified.
Decided not to read about this case for a while. A few weeks later and I’m back again.
I often think about A&Ls families. They can’t take a break, like I just did.

 

[tresir2012]

Very much a possibility, plus they're now insisting it's someone from the immediate area or someone very familiar with that part of Carroll County.

Early on references were made to a possible hitch hiker, and maybe someone carrying a backpack or other bag of some sort or another. I never thought the former, but the latter is a possibility.

Then the bogus sketch came out and threw people off. I never thought the BG could be much over age 40, yet here we were convinced it was some (using a phrase I've picked up since living here) ate up older middle-aged guy who's angry enough to want to go around murdering teens, when in reality we could be looking at someone around half the age of what we thought.

I think there's a real possibility LE were thrown off in the beginning, could have been a tip that sounded suggestive in nature, but who knows? I just have a hard time reconciling the vehicle parked by C.R. 300 and LE not mentioning it early on. Just seems weird to me, and one would think they would have wanted to get information about the identity of its owner or whoever was driving it. This is not new information, it was known early on and LE sat on it.

Which brings to mind another issue, and it just kind of popped into my head. Why wouldn't they be hungry for information on the vehicle and its driver early on, vs. releasing the poor audio released a week after the murders? Not just poor audio, but they released "down the hill" without "Guys". Why not just hold on to the audio for a bit, and instead focus on the vehicle and other pertinent stuff early on? Makes no sense to me.

No mention of a vehicle for over two years. Even if they had a detailed description, they could have just asked about a vehicle being parked there.

Here we were thinking BG was some ate up older guy with major issues in his life, when in reality it could be a young-looking and sounding young man. This whole time. 100+ threads later.

Let this year be the year, for the victims in this case, their families, their community.

There were requests early on for details of vehicles seen in the parking areas but nothing really to stand out to indicate they had not traced everybody. I am therefore thinking there is something weird about this car that is making it difficult to determine ownership - maybe false or missing plates or something similar. I am amazed when I check on MyCase periodically for case histories of my POIs to often find registration irregularities so I would not be at all surprised if this was the case, or it was stolen with false plates or something like that. I mean would a murderer drive a legit vehicle registered to himself? Just think of the perp JP in the Jayme Closs abduction and murder and the lengths he went to to ensure an untraceable vehicle.

 

[tresir2012]

Sorry but this post will add little, if anything:
The other week I had a dream. In the dream I was watching the video of BG. He kept walking closer and closer. Finally, I could see his face. I woke up terrified.
Decided not to read about this case for a while. A few weeks later and I’m back again.
I often think about A&Ls families. They can’t take a break, like I just did.

Did you recognise the face?

 

[southernswede]

In fact, I think it is either a very thin scarf, or something like a nylon stocking with the opening for the face, that covers the hair and the lower part of the face. I think the guy did not want to shed his DNA, but I think he, eventually, did.

I was reading some old, unconfirmed witness accounts on facebook that said they saw the BG walking with a white scarf covering the lower half of his face. It does look as though there is something white around his neck in the video.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Audio:
Voice of Unknown Subject in Indiana Murder Investigation

Recording of unknown subject in Indiana homicide investigation saying, "Guys ... Down the hill."
ABIGAIL WILLIAMS | Federal Bureau of Investigation

 

[PaulaDC]

A read about posing victims.
https://scholarlyexchange.org/ojs/index.php/ISJ/article/view/6236/4326

 

[NameUser]

Does anyone know if there is a database of reported stolen vehicles in Delphi? Would love to know if any were reported missing around the time frame of the crime.

IMO There are a lot of ways a vehicle could be classified as abandoned.

Will the vehicle be relevant....who knows!

 

[Vesta66S]

Did you recognise the face?

It was only a dream after all! He looked like the first sketch, but much younger with a slimmer face and no beard.

 

[heartgoesout]

I posted this before but it’s important.
Off the top of my head I have followed two cases where LE knew who the perp was almost from day one. They were patient when outsiders weren’t, gathered evidence the public didn’t know they had and made the arrest when a conviction could be better secured. There are thousands of cases just like this.
Carter said “you want to know what we know and someday you will”.
Let today be the day.

 

[heartgoesout]

I'm also baffled about the vehicle near the CPS building and why LE waited over 2 years to ask the public about it. Assuming they knew about the vehicle then. Or maybe it was in an early tip and missed or there was a communication error within the investigative team that misled LE to believe the vehicle had been identified. Trying to get help from the public over 2 years later means memories may have faded. I wonder if the lot at the CPS building has been used by other trail users.

I've thought someone could have the car as an alibi and LE wants to know if anyone else saw it there.
For example, LE asks why were you walking? And person answers because my car broke down. LE where did you park? (knowing they've had no reports of a car there.)

 

[Cutiekitty]

I've thought someone could have the car as an alibi and LE wants to know if anyone else saw it there.
For example, LE asks why were you walking? And person answers because my car broke down. LE where did you park? (knowing they've had no reports of a car there.)

Or maybe they said they were at the trail, but left at 11:30.

 

[somequestions]

Yes I do take what LE states as fact, as stated by WS and it is all we have. So you think they are wrong about BG being the murderer ? They have the video and recording and that is the last known person to be in contact with the girls and he has not come forward to say "that was me, I was hiking home to my gran's etc .....". They also have at least one witness who described who they saw and that sketch is the result. They will prove it when they catch him.

One could also say, the fact he has not come forward makes him guilty too. To BG, I would say, "if innocent, then come forward with your alibi and give a DNA sample to clear yourself."

Here is what I think:

I have always thought the man Liberty German videotaped on the Monon High Bridge is the killer. It would be relatively easy for law enforcement to figure that out with a reasonable amount of certainty. The distance and speed from where he was videotaped to when his voice first appears on Liberty German's recording would be easy to conclude that either he is the killer or he was very near the area where the girls and the bridge guy were talking.

As for the second sketch released on April 22, 2019, I do not think that sketch is at all representative of the description of the man on Liberty German's video. I think because law enforcement is as lost as the rest of us and all the youtubers who zoom in and have created their own personal sketches of bridge guy, they just decided to take a guess that a witness who gave a description of a man from February 2017 might be the killer. So they put that out for the public in the hope that maybe they get lucky.

I think when the man who murdered Liberty German and Abigail Williams gets caught that he will look nothing like the second sketch released on April 22, 2019. And I think it is the confusion between the second released sketch and the Liberty German video that is the reason this case is taking such a long time to solve.