Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #116

[southernswede]

Good questions.

Early MSM videos taken on RL's property along the creek side, mere feet from where the girls were found, show the line-of-sight to the bridge is mostly obscured by the tops of trees around and along the creek area. Some or sections of the bridge can be seen, however the SE end is obscured, from the perspective of the creek side of RL's property, and the same for the NW end. Basically, from the section of bridge right above the creek the view of where they crossed would have been mostly clear.

The CS itself is obscured by vegetation, and there are raised areas of land where there was a gravel pit on private property just below the cemetery. I keep in mind this is a gorge, along Deer Creek. I attached a photo of RL talking with a reporter adjacent to where this abandoned gravel pit is located. The girls were found within 50-60 feet of where they are standing. The other image is a SS of a 1992 USGS image showing the pit, and I marked roughly where RL and the reporter are standing, and roughly where the CS is located.

The CS would not be visible from the bridge.

JMO

TY!!

 

[Falling Down]

Early on YouTube user JM went to the bridge and took some great videos, one shows what the general area of the CS looks like from the south side of Deer Creek, right by where the crossing would have happened.

At 1:10 the crime scene tape is visible, probably 150 feet of or so from where JM was standing. Even in early March it's hard to see back into the woods:

 

[kc1023]

I remember in the Rhoden Family case LE coming forward and saying (paraphrasing) listen, we don't care if you're selling weed, into stolen cars etc... just tell us who killed these people, that's what we want to know. I would think IN LE would be of a similar mindset. It's an interesting senario you've described. What do you think the illegal activity would have been for others with BG to not report the killing of two children?

LE in this case sort of did the opposite MOO. They said something along the lines of if in the course of investigating tips they found other crimes they were making arrests. I did a quick search but couldn't find it but I'm sure some posters know what I'm talking about and can probably find it. I'll keep looking, too.

 

[puppyraiser]

Was the crime scene (or area where the bodies were found) visible from on top of the bridge? Watching videos ppl have made of the trail you can really see a long way in the woods when the trees are bare. I just can't understand how no one saw or heard anything. Libby seemed like quite a firecracker; I can't see her surrendering to him in any way.

I have always wondered the same thing. At some point they had to be visible at least crossing the creek, if not from the bridge then from an area on the trails. There should have been some type of noise. Maybe people had ear buds in or were focused on looking at the railroad ties as they crossed the bridge and didn't notice movement off to their left/right?

Or they didn't cross the creek during that tight time frame.

 

[sunshineray]

That d*#m car. It's been haunting me since the PC. I can think of 100 scenarios why it was mentioned over two years after the murders, but there's nothing to support or dissuade any of them.

The timing of the vehicle information along with the new sketch does make it logical to assume they are associated (although we don't know that for sure). I keep wondering if maybe the NBG sketch witness saw him with the car, or saw the car around the same time, but the witness was unreliable. Maybe a drug user, someone with a shady past, or even a child, whatever. Then, maybe other witnesses saw somebody else on the trails that day, and they all described somebody similar to the OBG sketch, so the safer presumption was to go with the multiple, reliable witnesses versus the single, unreliable one. Just one of many guesses...

You bring up a scary point. NBG sketch witness could be a kid. I pray that's not so.

 

[sunshineray]

I just knew in the beginning that this guy had a high degree of familiarity with the trails AND the surrounding areas. Possibly a nearby resident or had been a resident in the past. I still believe that is the most likely, but I'm not as certain of that now as I was in the beginning. If this was a spur of moment rage killing - i.e., something this guy did not plan to do when he arrived at the trails I tend to believe it is very likely he is very familiar with the trails from past experience. With such experience, he could have gone to his vehicle and got what he needed and then did this on the fly. He could do that because he was confident in his knowledge of the trails.

But what if this guy was a predator on the hunt. That is, he showed up here KNOWING he was going to murder and all he needed was a particular type of victim. True, he could still be someone who was in Delphi in the past. But if he had such an act planned, he may be someone who is very comfortable in a much larger wooded environment. Someone who pays attention to his surroundings and the location of the sun and stars. Such a person may only need one trip to the trails to have scouted that area, maybe just before noon that same day. This could be an experienced hunter or even someone who participates in paintball games. In the Boy Scouts, we played Capture the Flag in woods and we got to know the areas where we played the game very well. Compared to other wooded areas, the Monon trail area is not that large or complicated. I can't see myself getting lost in there and staying lost for very long and it has been a couple of decades since I've spent extensive time in forests or swamps.

If he was not a prior resident or frequent visitor to Delphi, why these trails? If he was such a predator on the hunt, I would think he had other options scouted out in southern IN, IL or even northern KY. If so, others might have seen him in those places as well - assuming either of these sketches is reasonably close to what he looks like. Of course, he could simply be that anonymous type of person, one just seems to blend in with surrounding persons and doesn't stand out. Hidden in plain sight, just not in Delphi.

I think it might be just as simple as someone who knew the kids were off and figured while the unusually warmer weather was no heat wave, some kids might go to the trails that day, at the hottest Sun-time of the day. Or the killer knew through social media that these girls would be there. Two ahead of time known random targets or really known by the killer targets.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

Early on YouTube user JM went to the bridge and took some great videos, one shows what the general area of the CS looks like from the south side of Deer Creek, right by where the crossing would have happened.

At 1:10 the crime scene tape is visible, probably 150 feet of or so from where JM was standing. Even in early March it's hard to see back into the woods:

Thank you for posting that. I thought I had seen them all until now. Very sad for these girls & their loved ones
MOO...

 

[sleuther0192837465]

LE in this case sort of did the opposite MOO. They said something along the lines of if in the course of investigating tips they found other crimes they were making arrests. I did a quick search but couldn't find it but I'm sure some posters know what I'm talking about and can probably find it. I'll keep looking, too.

I think this might be what you are looking for:

Police give a vague glimpse into Delphi investigation



“If we come across a suspect and/or witness — or anybody — during this investigation, and we find out they’re wanted on a warrant for some other activity that has nothing to do with the double homicide, we can’t turn a blind eye to that. So we’ve made arrests,” he said.

 

[sunshineray]

Was the crime scene (or area where the bodies were found) visible from on top of the bridge? Watching videos ppl have made of the trail you can really see a long way in the woods when the trees are bare. I just can't understand how no one saw or heard anything. Libby seemed like quite a firecracker; I can't see her surrendering to him in any way.

And Libby was wearing a bright colored tye dyed shirt. I would think that could be spotted with the eyes from up top that high bridge for quite a distance when the woods were bare.

 

[sunshineray]

LE in this case sort of did the opposite MOO. They said something along the lines of if in the course of investigating tips they found other crimes they were making arrests. I did a quick search but couldn't find it but I'm sure some posters know what I'm talking about and can probably find it. I'll keep looking, too.

Yes I remember that article.

 

[Kudzuu]

DBM

 

[JenniD]

Today as I had some free time and once again baffled by this crime I started to do a little snooping around on the web. I have had my poi person for a long time but just recently came up with a 2nd person who might also be a poi of mine. Had no idea until a few minutes ago that these two not only know each other, but attended same college, participated in same extracurricular activities. So without going into detail I speculated that maybe they were both at the trails that day and were observed doing something that would essentially ruin both of their careers if exposed. This is pure speculation on my part but sure opens me up to more than one suspect
Just speaking my own thoughts out loud. MOO

 

[zoricaj1]

on SM, with no names mentioned, a lady speculated about a father & son being involved. she added that wife / mother had in-depth postings about The Shack . (prior to Feb 2017) i have NOT searched for any facebook postings.
i am skeptical of You Tube bs. However, please search You Tube with terms delphi sins of our father. draw your own conclusions. don't know motive & seems unfathomable, however picture comparisons are striking. ie sketch facial scars on BG2 are exact match to the son, a college student. there are numerous videos that tie in to the father son.

can you post what video you are talking about? or pm me? i typed that into youtube and nothing came up but 1 minivan traveler video

 

[JnRyan]

IMO BG2 is attending college & is 100+ miles away. until yesterday I was convinced that a meth head murdered the girls. (a more plausible theory but wrong.)

Yes, a very big possibility.

 

[Charlot123]

IMO BG2 is attending college & is 100+ miles away. until yesterday I was convinced that a meth head murdered the girls. (a more plausible theory but wrong.)

College - yes.
Maybe locally (Purdue), maybe somewhere else - MI, WI or farther

 

[No it's not]

Regarding "The Shack".. what peaked my interest is how Mackenzie (Philips) has suffered during childhood under his abusive father and how he eventually poisoned him, when he was only 13 years old! A murderer (justified..?) searching for his daughter's murderer..

ALL IMO

-Nin

 

[JDough]

I came across an article (linked below) that has some great information about potential personality traits BG may have. This is one area I have been concentrating on- attempting to understand what kind of person BG is. What makes him tick? What would cause him to commit such a horrendous crime? How does he live his daily life- what might be a red flag to others? What is he thinking/doing to avoid detection and arrest?

What are the characteristics of the anti-social personality, and what are two other names for it?

The antisocial personality goes by two other names as well: the psychopath or sociopath. The syndrome is remarkably consistent and often inspires a shock of recognition in students, because this type of person is intelligent, not superficially crazy, and exists on college campuses among other places.

Author lists these characteristics of psychopaths:
1. Superficial charm and good intelligence
2. Poise, rationality, absence of neurotic anxiety
3. Lack of sense of personal responsibility
4. Untruthfulness, insincerity, callousness, manipulativeness
5. Antisocial behavior without regret or shame
6. Poor judgment and failure to learn from experience
7. Incapacity to establish lasting, close relationships with others
8. Lack of insight into his or her own personal motivations

[...] they are often good readers of other people, adept at exploitation. They excuse and rationalize their own behavior, putting the blame for their problems on other people.

A sociopath lacks empathy and shows no real regrets over hurting people or breaking rules. Apologies come almost too readily because they are totally insincere, a means of minimizing the consequences of being caught rather than expressing remorse. [...]

Primary symptoms of the antisocial personality are amorality (lack of ethical standards and consistent moral judgment) and impulsiveness. [...]

Additional info at link!

The Antisocial Personality | in Chapter 12: Abnormal Psychology

*Mods please note: I have done my best not to go over the 10% rule with some highlights. (In the event someone may not be able to access the website)! My sincere apologies if I have gone over a little.

 

[Charlot123]

I just knew in the beginning that this guy had a high degree of familiarity with the trails AND the surrounding areas. Possibly a nearby resident or had been a resident in the past. I still believe that is the most likely, but I'm not as certain of that now as I was in the beginning. If this was a spur of moment rage killing - i.e., something this guy did not plan to do when he arrived at the trails I tend to believe it is very likely he is very familiar with the trails from past experience. With such experience, he could have gone to his vehicle and got what he needed and then did this on the fly. He could do that because he was confident in his knowledge of the trails.

But what if this guy was a predator on the hunt. That is, he showed up here KNOWING he was going to murder and all he needed was a particular type of victim. True, he could still be someone who was in Delphi in the past. But if he had such an act planned, he may be someone who is very comfortable in a much larger wooded environment. Someone who pays attention to his surroundings and the location of the sun and stars. Such a person may only need one trip to the trails to have scouted that area, maybe just before noon that same day. This could be an experienced hunter or even someone who participates in paintball games. In the Boy Scouts, we played Capture the Flag in woods and we got to know the areas where we played the game very well. Compared to other wooded areas, the Monon trail area is not that large or complicated. I can't see myself getting lost in there and staying lost for very long and it has been a couple of decades since I've spent extensive time in forests or swamps.

If he was not a prior resident or frequent visitor to Delphi, why these trails? If he was such a predator on the hunt, I would think he had other options scouted out in southern IN, IL or even northern KY. If so, others might have seen him in those places as well - assuming either of these sketches is reasonably close to what he looks like. Of course, he could simply be that anonymous type of person, one just seems to blend in with surrounding persons and doesn't stand out. Hidden in plain sight, just not in Delphi.

I just thought, who could be a serial predator, know many places, live at many places, all over the country, kill several times, and none the wiser?

The former army brat.


Imagine Eric Harris graduating, being rejected by the Marines, and going the SK’s way. How would it look like?

Eric would travel to places where his dad used to be stationed, kill there, and return to Littlejohn, where he’d attend a local community college (absences easier unnoticed than in a private college). The murders would have no logical geographical connection, because who would link all these bases his dad used to be stationed at?

Also, the military are one group of people who may be not local at all and yet accepted without suspicion, because it is in the people’s mentality, thank you for your service. Furthermore, if the family moves, it, too, might be unnoticed.

So if we are thinking of a kid who attended school in Delphi (of Eric’s type, pretty and nice, but unnoticed because he was a new kid on the block), and then moved away, and was unnoticed, and whom no one can remember. I’d ask if there was an army brat attending Delphi school once upon a time. Such a person should be on the other end of the age spectrum, closer to 35. And check where he moved after that, and if there were any murders/disappearances there.

I am not a local, but just an idea.

 

[ScumbagTrav]

Early on YouTube user JM went to the bridge and took some great videos, one shows what the general area of the CS looks like from the south side of Deer Creek, right by where the crossing would have happened.

At 1:10 the crime scene tape is visible, probably 150 feet of or so from where JM was standing. Even in early March it's hard to see back into the woods:

Id never seen thag before. Thanks for sharing

 

[ScumbagTrav]

can you post what video you are talking about? or pm me? i typed that into youtube and nothing came up but 1 minivan traveler video

You gotta search for sins of the father Delphi. But dont waste your time. Its just some crappy slideshow...from that weird guy Dexter on Twitter.