Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #116

[margarita25]

Delete

 

[busymcmoody]

This shoe always bothered me. Was it matching the other shoe? Was it of the same color as her other one? Was it Libby's shoe? Is it possible that it was a non-matching shoe that the perp left from the previous place of crime? Did anything belonging to the girls disappear from the current one?

The perp might have taken something, and none the wiser, because who knows what girls take with them on a walk?

The GH video with Kelsi will give you a couple of answers. Kelsi identified the shoe.

 

[pixiepixel]

Does anyone know how quickly the FBI and ISP became involved in the case?

MOO - I believe a lot of the problems with the investigation, and April's "new direction", came as a result of Delphi's PD mismanaging the case in its early days. This is not a condemnation of local LE; we have seen time and time again that small, rural police forces are entirely unequipped to deal with major crimes like these.

When the girls first went missing, they were not thought to be in danger:

"Based on the information given by family and friends, police do not believe foul play is involved and have been given no information that would lead them to believe the girls are in any immediate danger, other than exposure to outside elements." (Posted at 1:00am on Feb 14)
​

Consequentially, IMO, this led to a grassroots search party and after the fact LE would have had a difficult time finding and interviewing everyone involved.

Naturally, without analyzing Libby's video first, police had no idea what the extent of the crime scene was. They only had the location of the bodies. In hindsight, they should have cordoned off the entire area around Monon, but again, they wouldn't have known that until they saw the video.

Perhaps items of evidence were initially overlooked. Perhaps potential suspects with flimsy alibis were ruled out too soon. Perhaps LE tunneled in on the first sketch and overlooked things.

This is all just my opinion, mostly ramblings.

 

[Justice101]

In this video it is discussed at around the 7:30 minute mark. Kelsi mentions finding the shoe at around the 9 minute mark.

"Somebody yelled up that they had found a shoe..."

It is also mentioned in this Investigation Discovery article.
Who KIlled Abby Williams & Liberty German? | Still a Mystery on Investigation Discovery | Investigation Discovery

"Then, on February 14, searchers reportedly found a single shoe. Within minutes, they made another grim discovery — they reportedly found the girls' remains, less than a mile from where they had started their hike just 24 hours earlier. The tragedy made headlines around the country, and media flooded the small town."

But found who's shoe???

 

[Justice101]

Does anyone know how quickly the FBI and ISP became involved in the case?

MOO - I believe a lot of the problems with the investigation, and April's "new direction", came as a result of Delphi's PD mismanaging the case in its early days. This is not a condemnation of local LE; we have seen time and time again that small, rural police forces are entirely unequipped to deal with major crimes like these.

When the girls first went missing, they were not thought to be in danger:

"Based on the information given by family and friends, police do not believe foul play is involved and have been given no information that would lead them to believe the girls are in any immediate danger, other than exposure to outside elements." (Posted at 1:00am on Feb 14)
​

Consequentially, IMO, this led to a grassroots search party and after the fact LE would have had a difficult time finding and interviewing everyone involved.

Naturally, without analyzing Libby's video first, police had no idea what the extent of the crime scene was. They only had the location of the bodies. In hindsight, they should have cordoned off the entire area around Monon, but again, they wouldn't have known that until they saw the video.

Perhaps items of evidence were initially overlooked. Perhaps potential suspects with flimsy alibis were ruled out too soon. Perhaps LE tunneled in on the first sketch and overlooked things.

This is all just my opinion, mostly ramblings.

FBI was in very quickly.. .like within a week if I recall correctly.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

But found who's shoe???

JMO and from reading different articles and watching different videos, it was Libby's shoe.

(If link below does not open because J & C sometimes blocks their articles, then use your browser to open it in "Incognito Mode")
'Dr. Phil' asks for tips to catch Delphi killer

"Kelsi recalled the searchers yelled up the hill to her from the murder scene, asking if she knew what the girls were wearing. Kelsi yelled back the color of Libby's shoes"

Delphi murders discussion on Dr. Phil fuels hope that case will be solved

"Kelsi German helped searchers identify the bodies by the color of her sister’s shoes.

I yelled down to them. I told them they were Lilly’s shoes,” she said. “They yelled again that they found them.”

ETA an additional link (Libby's name is misspelled in the article )

 

[busymcmoody]

But found who's shoe???

Kelsi identified the shoe (that's what she said in the GH video) so it's safe to say that it was Libby's I think?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

According to Sheriff they were told by family that going somewhere and not telling the adults in their lives was something the girls had done before. That just doesn't jive with what I've read, from different family for both girls say, in different articles and interviews. I don't get the discrepancy. It doesn't matter as far as what actually happened, the girls being dead already, before searching. It sure does matter when trying to figure out if the girls were lured or meeting up with someone who they had contact with and if that played a part.

To think, Libby had run off to her mother in KY (as she allegedly did before) is one thing. But would Abby have followed her to KY? That sounds a bit outlandish, IMO, and daring re Abby, who had to expect some big trouble with her mother AW.

 

[Falling Down]

Does anyone know how quickly the FBI and ISP became involved in the case?

MOO - I believe a lot of the problems with the investigation, and April's "new direction", came as a result of Delphi's PD mismanaging the case in its early days. This is not a condemnation of local LE; we have seen time and time again that small, rural police forces are entirely unequipped to deal with major crimes like these.

When the girls first went missing, they were not thought to be in danger:

"Based on the information given by family and friends, police do not believe foul play is involved and have been given no information that would lead them to believe the girls are in any immediate danger, other than exposure to outside elements." (Posted at 1:00am on Feb 14)
​

Consequentially, IMO, this led to a grassroots search party and after the fact LE would have had a difficult time finding and interviewing everyone involved.

Naturally, without analyzing Libby's video first, police had no idea what the extent of the crime scene was. They only had the location of the bodies. In hindsight, they should have cordoned off the entire area around Monon, but again, they wouldn't have known that until they saw the video.

Perhaps items of evidence were initially overlooked. Perhaps potential suspects with flimsy alibis were ruled out too soon. Perhaps LE tunneled in on the first sketch and overlooked things.

This is all just my opinion, mostly ramblings.

Below is a RTV6 video taken from a helicopter during the early afternoon hours of Feb. 14th. I would imagine the area was cordoned off well for the search on Feb. 14h, by mid-morning a large search party met at the volunteer fire house in town, which was the base of operations for the search for the girls.

An FBI agent happens to live in that area, and was involved in the Feb. 13th search. The official FBI involvement would have started after the bodies were found on the 14th. ISP and local agencies would have been involved in the search efforts, looks like a lot of resources were put in to the efforts on the 14th.

 

[minazoe]

see now I always thought that someone saw a shoe, but it was attached to Libby who was in the leaves. .. perhaps I am wrong and someone discovered a lone unattached shoe..??? mOO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

JMO and from reading different articles and watching different videos, it was Libby's shoe.

(If link below does not open because J & C sometimes blocks their articles, then use your browser to open it in "Incognito Mode")
'Dr. Phil' asks for tips to catch Delphi killer

"Kelsi recalled the searchers yelled up the hill to her from the murder scene, asking if she knew what the girls were wearing. Kelsi yelled back the color of Libby's shoes"

Delphi murders discussion on Dr. Phil fuels hope that case will be solved

"Kelsi German helped searchers identify the bodies by the color of her sister’s shoes.

I yelled down to them. I told them they were Lilly’s shoes,” she said. “They yelled again that they found them.”

ETA an additional link (Libby's name is misspelled in the article )

If one shoe was found in a driveway (as said here before) and this shoe was found at the "crime scene", the shoe would have been the second one. Or am I wrong with that?

 

[bradfordsleuth]

If one shoe was found in a driveway (as said here before) and this shoe was found at the "crime scene", the shoe would have been the second one. Or am I wrong with that?

I agree.

Based on watching GH's video (I believe that there is another video out there that also mentions the shoe - just please don't ask me to find it! ) and reading articles, one shoe was found on the private driveway and the shoe at the crime scene was likely found on Libby.

It seems like the timing between finding the shoe and then locating the girls was within minutes. JMO

Just to add....I don't know who found the shoe, or what the distance between where the shoe was found and the crime scene was. I don't think that any of that info has ever been released.

JMO, speculation and thoughts

 

[busymcmoody]

If one shoe was found in a driveway (as said here before) and this shoe was found at the "crime scene", the shoe would have been the second one. Or am I wrong with that?

In the video Kelsi said that [paraphrasing] when she identified the shoe they looked across the creek and saw them. So I'm not sure about the shoe being in a driveway.
ETA unless that was the second shoe they found (oops that's what you said)? Or do I have my orientation wrong? But it didn't sound like the shoe was on Libby's foot.

 

[Wowno17]

Sorry to be a pain but can I ask do we know how these two girls were murdered?

If not, I wonder why they are holding back that information, obviously to do with when they catch the killer but must be something unique I.e not just strangulation for example (sorry for being so blunt)

 

[mom2chloe]

Sorry to be a pain but can I ask do we know how these two girls were murdered?

If not, I wonder why they are holding back that information, obviously to do with when they catch the killer but must be something unique I.e not just strangulation for example (sorry for being so blunt)

IMO I find the fact that zero info has been released regarding method of death is hinky too. Although maybe the info may have been released if someone had been charged and/or a Grand Jury impaneled.
Also I cannot fathom why the search the night of their disappearance was called off. If my 14 year old child or her friend went missing under similar circumstances, there is zero chance I would give up a search in fact I would bring in LE from everywhere and dogs to search.
Under what premise is it ok to call off a search for two missing teenage girls hours after anyone had contact with them, leaving them alone and in the dark on a cold February night?
There is too much wrong with this scenario to even begin to understand all the ways in which this went wrong. Ugh

 

[MingyMoo]

Hence, my sniffin' of a rat.

Am I to REALLY believe that circa 2017, 2 girls missing, last known place they were was at that bridge, and LE fails to secure the perimeter, leaving the search through the wee hours of the night to volunteers? Seriously???

Depends really doesnt it. I am with you here and smell a clever Rat.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Is the shoe that was found from one of the girls an established fact?

I hadn't heard that... and if so, that is very significant. Let us know if there is a source for that.

"Around 7:30 in the morning we had all went back out to search.
…
Three of us chose to cross the bridge to look underneath the bridge on the opposite side.

Um, and that’s where I ended up hearing that we found the bodies.
...
I was standing on the trail that’s right under the bridge looking out into the woods and somebody yelled up that they had found a shoe.

And when they had found the shoe they had asked what kind of shoes the girls were wearing, and they yelled up the type of shoe that Libby was wearing. So I yelled down and told them that.

Actually then the person that had asked that had put up their phone and saw two deer in the ground moving. And so he was looking to see what it might be, and he saw two deer standing up there, and when he saw them, he moved the camera down, and that’s when we found them."

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/joe-melillo/infamous-indy/e/58696347

 

[Falling Down]

Another factor affecting the Delphi case the evening of the 13th was there was an Amber Alert out of Gary for a teen, as part of a murder investigation. ISP resources were being diverted to that area for the search.

 

[stattlich1]

Under what premise is it ok to call off a search for two missing teenage girls hours after anyone had contact with them, leaving them alone and in the dark on a cold February night?
There is too much wrong with this scenario to even begin to understand all the ways in which this went wrong.

We are on the same page, something stinks about this. I was born at night, but NOT last night

There is specific protocol.

No amber alert?
Leave 'em be til morning?
Search resumes at what time the next day? 10:00? 11:45? Seriously?

Too many questions. No fool here, I smell a rat.

All my personal opinion, of course

 

[ScumbagTrav]

Sorry to be a pain but can I ask do we know how these two girls were murdered?

If not, I wonder why they are holding back that information, obviously to do with when they catch the killer but must be something unique I.e not just strangulation for example (sorry for being so blunt)

Not being a pain at all. We don't know how...and we really dont need to know.

Knowing wouldnt do anything to assist in capturing the killer, except potentially get a lot of crazy people giving false confessions.

If no one but LE and the corner know how the girls were killed....when and if a tip comes in, and information is collaborated that only LE and the killer would know....then that helps out tremendously.