CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #66

[Seattle1]

I’m not on Facebook either, and you don’t need the app. Since it’s already in progress, once it’s over you can watch from the beginning by Googling Sam Kraemer Facebook - you will then be on his FB page and you can go to his most recent video and watch it. Hope this helps ...all of his videos are there if you have time to watch them.

Sam's FB trial recaps are also posted in the media thread -- I'm listening to trial day 10 as I type. No FB account required.

 

[skyedaze]

What happened to the lightly used Taco Bell gift cards @MassGuy talked about. (Or was it @GordianKnot?)

Either way; I laughed my tail off.

JMHO...but she needs a coffee...delivered in person.

 

[Artis]

Sam said they were tested and had female DNA but they didn't come up as part of the case.

Well, who the hell did they come from??? While it may irrelevant to this case, I'd like to know.I mentioned before possible trophies. I'd at least like to hear that was ruled out (as in the state does know whose teeth they are).

 

[mustloveco]

I must admit: I am pretty happy to be thinking about PF sitting in jail, writing whimsical love notes to thugs! “The things me and you could do” .

 

[skyedaze]

And..............dated October 1st lol

wow! Just when I think it can't get any dumber....surprise!

 

[Warwick7]

I agree. I think the only ones who would know the DA's office was working with KK--and a prison gang member--would be the DA's office. The defense was claiming they weren't receiving discovery right up to the start of the trial. This "bombshell" evidence they were informed about on Monday.

Nope, I didn't find Bentley or KK credible. I found it all too conveniently coordinated by the prosecution to make up for the lack of forensic evidence such as KK claiming PF told her to look for dented floorboards and voila! on the last day of the trial dented floorboards introduced not by law enforcement but a paid witness for the prosecution who admitted he based his testimony on what KK said. Why didn't investigators spray the same chemicals on the LR walls and floor as they did in the bathroom rather than bring in some retired guy from Denver who said he watched a video? LE seized five teeth during a sw of the Frazee farm but it seems the only tooth they tested was the one that voila! appeared in an area they only found because of KK and it was "believed" to be a female tooth.

What does surprise me is that the Judge allowed an admitted prison gang member, a convicted felon currently awaiting trial on more felonies to testify without forensic verification of his claims.

I don't find any of it believable but I'm not on the jury and I'm sure glad I don't live there.
JMO

However, those 12 are on the Jury.

SK notes:
"PF asked if doe's prison gang could do something to help him "eliminate witnesses"
- PF was staring straight down at this point
- PF asked more than once to "take care of a witness" (KK)
- PF wrote about 16 letters total...
- judge said the jury can decide the weight of the credibility it deserved.

 

[GordianKnot]

I don't find any of it believable but I'm not on the jury and I'm sure glad I don't live there.
JMO

SABBM:

That Makes Two of Us.

 

[MemPat]

Wow, and he’s not the type of person to just speculate on that. He must know that to be true.

That would explain the lack of an argument in front of the jury, as to their authenticity. If PF was behind this guy bonding out, then that would confirm the legitimacy of the letters.

I now understand why the defense didn’t fight back, and merely focused on this guy’s credibility (which is a meaningless argument).

The more I think about this the more I realize the DA would have known everything about "John Doe" within minutes, especially who put up the bond, since that info would be in LE's records.

Even without the lie detector test I would expect they administered, the Frazees' participation in the bond would, as you say, make it clear "John Doe" was legit.

I really want to see the form SF signed!

 

[Steelslady]

I just really thought the timing was off and that the prosecution didn’t really need him. I know now, reading the list, how absolutely wrong I was. I never should have doubted May.

Not only if PF already a dangerous murderer we now know he’ll keep going if he can. If I were any of those named, heck even not named, I’d always feel like I need to look over my shoulder for the rest of my life. I don’t doubt PF will ever stop trying to get someone to do paybacks for him. That’s a scary, scary thought.

I agree, I can imagine how they all must be scared and looking over their shoulders. I can't even understand why he would want any of Krystal's family dead, I don't think they knew him on a personal level. John and his partner Cindy- they must be wrecks, after hearing that.

If there is any doubt in anyone's mind that Patrick is a sick and twisted individual that should never see the outside of prison ever again, then I am convinced that even a video tape of him committing murder just wouldn't be enough evidence that he's guilty. Way too much evidence against him, way too many witnesses, and they backed up everything KK told LE.

I am really curious about the letter PF wrote about Doe calling his mother, having both her cell and land phone numbers- Doe wouldn't know those numbers on his own. Obviously, mother and son had a code with the damn horses and elk, just like PF did with Kenney and the horses. I do wish that she had taken the stand, just to see her reaction to questions by the prosecution, even if she plead the 5th.

Thank God Baby K is with the Berreth's. After seeing how he mentioned to Doe about the ages of Krystal's children, that makes me all the more convinced that Baby K was not the issue in terms of getting rid of Kelsey and KK now, as well. If he would mention Krystal's kids like that, you can't convince me that this man is a loving father, sorry.

I'm really relieved he didn't have any of the Berreth's on that list, but who knows if he has anything else up his sleeve.

I think I am just too stunned by this entire trial- it' overwhelming to be honest. Scary, too, especially since he was plotting more murders from his prison cell.

 

[afitzy]

Not sure if it meets ToS, but if SF ever gets so much as an unpaid parking ticket, can someone *please please PLEASE* create a thread for her? I want...no...NEED to sleuth her so bad! I’m *certain* that’s a rock with some truly horrible creepy-crawlies living under it.

I do wonder about the entire SF issue as I believe in the Sam FB Live Day 10 recap when talking about the 'jailhouse notes' it was clear that PF gave SF phone number to the 'jailhouse snitch'.

Why give that phone contact information to the jailhouse snitch IMO except that SF was the person to orchestrate payment for the many 'hits' described on the many different notes or could provide more detailed information about people on the 'hit list'.

Sam of course did not draw a conclusion on why the SF phone contact information might have been provided to the 'jailhouse snitch' but the fact that the information passed from PF to the snitch was IMO quite interesting.

The legal status of the 'jailhouse notes' is unclear to me and so IDK whether they can be used as evidence to perhaps initiate a case against whoever else PF was attempting to involve in the 'hits' from his jail cell. As we have never heard from SF on this particular issue as it just happened recently, it will be interesting to see if LE pursues this issue further with her or any other family members involved with assisting the 'jailhouse snitch' with bail/bond.

MOO

 

[zea mays]

This was a little confusing because it sounded like all the teeth stuff was getting jumbled together... the question was about the envelope of teeth, but then it wasn't completely clear to me in Sam's answer that he was talking about those when he said they had been tested and were determined to be female human... he may have just been talking about the one tooth recovered from the Franch burn site when he referenced that finding. It's unclear to me about the envelope of teeth, and his answer on that seemed a little jumbled and unsure on the specifics as well.

Yeah- I don't think he was talking about the bag of teeth. Has that even been brought up in the trial? Or do we just know about it from the arrest affidavit?

 

[afitzy]

Wow, and he’s not the type of person to just speculate on that. He must know that to be true.

That would explain the lack of an argument in front of the jury, as to their authenticity. If PF was behind this guy bonding out, then that would confirm the legitimacy of the letters.

I now understand why the defense didn’t fight back, and merely focused on this guy’s credibility (which is a meaningless argument).

Yes, and Sam also added that PF gave SF phone number to the 'jailhouse snitch' as well but Sam did not speculate as to 'why' this might have been done.

Much food for thought here IMO between the phone number being passed over and the 'bond assistance' allegedly provided.

Wonder if LE will do anything or even can do anything about any of this?

 

[MassGuy]

What happened to the lightly used Taco Bell gift cards @MassGuy talked about. (Or was it @GordianKnot?)

Either way; I laughed my tail off.

It was me, but I reconsidered after @GordianKnot criticized me for being “cheap.” I only give “lightly used” gift cards, as opposed to fully loaded ones. No exceptions.

It’s the thought that counts though. The fact that it crossed my mind to offer a gift, is a gift enough.

Which I explained to @GoJacks when he messaged me to say “I’m starving.”

 

[zea mays]

Yes, and Sam also added that PF gave SF phone number to the 'jailhouse snitch' as well but Sam did not speculate as to 'why' this might have been done.

Much food for thought here IMO between the phone number being passed over and the 'bond assistance' allegedly provided.

Wonder if LE will do anything or even can do anything about any of this?

Oh, I hope so! And to think that SF had to hear all this the same way we did (the trial part - she may have been informed by his defense ahead of time??).

 

[mustloveco]

Somebody needs to tell PF: the cats out of the bag now. We got you buddy!

 

[afitzy]

We assumed PF asked Kk to find the tooth, to eliminate evidence. We didn't think he asked for it because HE WANTED TO KEEP IT.

Souvenir.

That's 6.

MOO MOO MOO

It was interesting along the lines of your thoughts on teeth, that someone asked Sam in the FB live tonight if any more had been heard from LE about the other teeth found at the Frazee ranch and Sam I believe said he had not heard anything further.

Wonder if LE will investigate those teeth to determine if they are Frazee family teeth or perhaps belong to others?

 

[Warwick7]

The more I think about this the more I realize the DA would have known everything about "John Doe" within minutes, especially who put up the bond, since that info would be in LE's records.

Even without the lie detector test I would expect they administered, the Frazees' participation in the bond would, as you say, make it clear he was legit.

I really want to see the form SF signed!

Yes, if we complain about KK not coming fw and telling so that a life could be saved.... Well what about Ma not coming fw if all those people would have been killed??!!!!

 

[MemPat]

I agree. I think the only ones who would know the DA's office was working with KK--and a prison gang member--would be the DA's office. The defense was claiming they weren't receiving discovery right up to the start of the trial. This "bombshell" evidence they were informed about on Monday.

Nope, I didn't find Bentley or KK credible. I found it all too conveniently coordinated by the prosecution to make up for the lack of forensic evidence such as KK claiming PF told her to look for dented floorboards and voila! on the last day of the trial dented floorboards introduced not by law enforcement but a paid witness for the prosecution who admitted he based his testimony on what KK said. Why didn't investigators spray the same chemicals on the LR walls and floor as they did in the bathroom rather than bring in some retired guy from Denver who said he watched a video? LE seized five teeth during a sw of the Frazee farm but it seems the only tooth they tested was the one that voila! appeared in an area they only found because of KK and it was "believed" to be a female tooth.

What does surprise me is that the Judge allowed an admitted prison gang member, a convicted felon currently awaiting trial on more felonies to testify without forensic verification of his claims.

I don't find any of it believable but I'm not on the jury and I'm sure glad I don't live there.
JMO

If you check out today's testimony you'll find that the defense attorneys learned about the informant before the DA as he accidentally contacted them first.

Every trial I've ever watched had evidence coming in right up until the end. It's how things work. People often decide to come forward during a trial.

It's good to know also that every trial has people who are paid to testify. They are professionals who work for a living and don't just sit around to wait for a trial.

The other teeth were tested and confirmed to contain female DNA. They didn't seem to have anything to do with the case so they weren't highlighted. (If they were Ma or the sister's wisdom teeth, no biggie.) Many other objects fell into this same category, such as a number of things that tested negative for blood.

 

[Sweetsbeach]

I do wonder about the entire SF issue as I believe in the Sam FB Live Day 10 recap when talking about the 'jailhouse notes' it was clear that PF gave SF phone number to the 'jailhouse snitch'.

Why give that phone contact information to the jailhouse snitch IMO except that SF was the person to orchestrate payment for the many 'hits' described on the many different notes or could provide more detailed information about people on the 'hit list'.

Sam of course did not draw a conclusion on why the SF phone contact information might have been provided to the 'jailhouse snitch' but the fact that the information passed from PF to the snitch was IMO quite interesting.

The legal status of the 'jailhouse notes' is unclear to me and so IDK whether they can be used as evidence to perhaps initiate a case against whoever else PF was attempting to involve in the 'hits' from his jail cell. As we have never heard from SF on this particular issue as it just happened recently, it will be interesting to see if LE pursues this issue further with her or any other family members involved with assisting the 'jailhouse snitch' with bail/bond.

MOO

I hope they're investigating any deeper SF connection as we speak. The prosecution didn't need her so she didn't get any immunity for testifying. Maybe after PF's trial is over, they'll be coming for her next.

 

[makayla]

Flush! Always put that as a heading when your passing notes to have somebody killed.

Hahaha, yes, FLUSH is an example of PF’s language that nobody could ever figure out .....

Luckily, his jailhouse buddy did not follow that brilliant suggestion!