CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #66

[Warwick7]

I’m sure you are right, but they couldn’t prove he didn’t write them at the time. Or were able to cite case law against their admission. IMO of course.

If they wanted to appeal, they would have to put it on record they objected to the ruling. They could request a DNA analysis and if it came back with no PF DNA they could have grounds for an appeal to be sent for review. That still doesn’t mean they would get an automatic appeal though. However, IMOO, the jail notes are the prosecutions weakest link to an appeal simply because of the timing. On the other hand, those notes were just the dessert, not the meal. The case was very strong without them.

I agree with you...

"On the other hand, those notes were just the dessert, not the meal. The case was very strong without them."

 

[Seattle1]

BBM:
He's been superb!

Sam's been our Main Man throughout.

Were it not for Sam Kraemer, we here would not have one septillionth of the information about the trial that we've gotten courtesy of Sam.

He's been the one reporter who's worked tirelessly to cover this case from its onset.

He's been the one reporter to provide the daily, detailed debriefs re: courtroom testimony since this trial began.

He's been the one reporter to sit there faithfully documenting what occurs in that courtroom, day after day, the fact that he took an entire Friday off to attend some wedding, notwithstanding.

We here owe Sam a debt of gratitude we can never repay, so here's what we can do to repay him:

@GoJacks can take some of the used gift cards MassGuy sent him and give them to Sam in court on Monday.

It's literally the least we can do for Sam after all he's done for us.

GoJacks, I know regifting is considered tacky, but so is giving people used gift cards in the first place, so it's okay.

With any luck, Taco Bell is Sam's favorite restaurant.

JMO.

WAIT -- STOP -- under no circumstances whatsoever is Sam the man to received used gift cards -- not even from MB!

Fully loaded or not at all.

 

[Alathea]

Maybe they have lots of money, valuables, or jewelry, etc.

I thought this, as well. I wonder if he thought that KB's family had a big farm, and she was a pilot making a lot of money. Over time, he realized that was not the case. He was actually having to help support KB with the baby. With that, she now wanted to work part time, without medical coverage. I think, she became of no use to PF, at that point. I've always thought this crime was motivated by money, not custody. He really doesn't care for his daughter. A person like PF only cares about one person, himself. Everyone else is a pawn, a means to an end, a "cash cow". Poor Kelsey, she didn't have a chance with this guy. Please let this jury convict him; so no other woman will end up like Kelsey because I believe he won't stop. JMO

I agree money was a motive. But: perhaps not the main one?

Yes, her parents were comfortable, and perhaps insurance had to do with it. That may have helped him make his decision. (Money was a major factor in Jennifer/Fotis Dulos case too, no doubt.)

But, as a verified psychologist who was on this thread several days ago perfectly described, I believe this case, and cases like this (Jennifer Dulos and Nicole Montalvo murders, etc.) are based in the complete need - not just desire - of these men to control.

It's what they've done all their lives. They have a way of finding women whom they are able to control, and if that's not working as they'd like, they cannot deal with it. I think KB was loving and warm, but also a bit independent in a way he couldn't stand. Would love to know more about the personality interactions, more about why the aunt said she had planned to break up (amicably, perhaps? Maybe remain 'best friends' and co-parents, but not lovers?)

There are books on this topic, but these 3 recent murders alone would make for a great book by someone who is a DV / control expert.

Edit: Grammar on who ->whom

 

[makayla]

"Why would she?" Well there's 100 Septillion reasons, plus Kenny testifying SF saw the bonfire, CB Testifying SF refered to Kelsey as a hooker. Jail calls are recorded. My guess is they talked about 'elk hunting' in one of these calls.
MOO

My guess is PF and SF had set up a coded language discussing “the horses are taken care of” and references to “elk hunting” .... it wouldn’t surprise me at all to learn that SF helped him with this as PF doesn’t seem bright enough to think of these schemes. But then he was dumb enough to clearly write all the details of retaliation on paper napkins for all to see.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

I know, I was confused by that at first and questioned as well. That's actually why I asked why he had referred to Wendy as the cash cow. Like was PF implying Wendy had the money to pay for/fund anything done on PF's behalf? But -- then later PF writes about kidnapping Joe and Wendy and also robbing their house, so I truly don't think Wendy was the one he was referring to in code. AND most telling, SF's home and cell phone number were listed on this first letter even though it didn't identify her by name.

While I wrote what Sam said in the FB live verbatim (for this letter, not all my notes), he did stress that Slater was on the stand reading through these notes FAST and that Sam was just doing his best to keep up. So what he was reading on the video were notes from his own shorthand, which explains why there might be some gaps, or any phrases missing in-between, and some confusion. We don't have the official court transcript of Slater reading the notes verbatim.

No, I meant Bentley's girlfriend.

 

[NWLady]

Also his brother SF2 wasn't on that list. At least he showed some brotherly love, unless he was under the impression that his brother would plead the 5th like MaF. By then, it was too late.

Well, he (PF) has to leave the ones that he's hoping will put money on his books for commissary for the rest of his sorry life. JMO

 

[Warwick7]

i'm thinking the defense would question any evidence presented by the prosecution that the defense thought was invalid. my guess would be that during one of this weeks closed door meetings the judge and the two sides had a chance to view the notes side by side with known examples of PFs handwriting and it was painfully obvious the notes were written by PF. otherwise i would tend to think it was the defenses obligation to ask the court for analysis on the handwriting. or, in the end, PF to tell the judge himself that he needed the notes to be verified. since neither the defense nor PF requested analysis they seem to accept the notes were authored by PF.

Excellent post!!!!!

 

[gitana1]

PF: “how **** can you get?”

John Doe: ...**** enough to turn these notes into the cops

Ha ha ha!!!

Girl Car GIF - Girl Car Drive - Discover & Share GIFs

 

[Only4Justice]

bolding mine

Here we go again with good old "Ma".
She's very supportive of her precious !
PF has someone he can count on.

NO WONDER WHY SF2 was so disgusted with his brother when he on the stand

 

[Warwick7]

How could they question who write it? It contained personal information about witnesses only PF knew about. Who needs someone to discuss how all the letters are written consistent with his known handwriting and no stop and start line indicative of a forger? His guilty knowledge is like his mental DNA. We knew he was an abusive narcissist, but I think the savage murder of KB took him to vindictive serial killer who loved manipulating others to do his dirty work and take the blame for him, too.

I will have a hard time thinking logically in future cases now because this case actually does read like a bad novel!!

My heart breaks for KB’s family. Poor little KB will only be able to hear stories of her awesome mom. Hopefully, they will be able to raise her to be a strong, caring woman like they did her mother.

Sometimes evil blindsides good simply because good can’t wrap its mind around the depths evil can descend.

Couldn't have said it better!

 

[gitana1]

If I were her I would not be coming back after finding out I was on the list. I thought she may come back for closing but I'll be really surprised to see her now.

I would. For my kid’s justice? Hell yeah.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

No, IMO it was SF and was a reference to the perp on how they would be paid for doing the 'deed'.

Frightening and IMO sickening if proven.

MOO

I have sent two messages privately through Facebook to Sam about who paid for the bail and if it could be investigated. Each time he has given me the same response and not gone into detail. And not addressed if somebody is going to specifically look into the money Trail either, which is what I was asking him in the second one. He just gives me a short answer...

"The assumption is that it was someone associated with PF"

 

[Alathea]

My guess is PF and SF had set up a coded language discussing “the horses are taken care of” and references to “elk hunting” .... it wouldn’t surprise me at all to learn that SF helped him with this as PF doesn’t seem bright enough to think of these schemes. But then he was dumb enough to clearly write all the details of retaliation on paper napkins for all to see.

ITA. SF HAD to at least be "in on" the planning and/or discussion of the 'witness disappearing plans', since notifying her was apparently pivotal to the plan. Her cellphone and a prearranged code, as you mention, was part of the notes to 'John Doe'.

PF apparently needed SF to know the plans had been enacted - for something else to move forward? and what was that? Why did she need to be notified?

This makes one (well, me) wonder: was she also pivotal in planning KB's murder?

 

[1mtroyal]

The part I am wondering about in all this is: PF's helpers loaded the burn remains in his pickup box. Do the authorities have any cell phone data on which direction the pickup went immediately after Kelsey's remains were taken right after the cleanup? He would have probably gotten rid of them rather quickly.

 

[Only4Justice]

I just really thought the timing was off and that the prosecution didn’t really need him. I know now, reading the list, how absolutely wrong I was. I never should have doubted May.

Not only if PF already a dangerous murderer we now know he’ll keep going if he can. If I were any of those named, heck even not named, I’d always feel like I need to look over my shoulder for the rest of my life. I don’t doubt PF will ever stop trying to get someone to do paybacks for him. That’s a scary, scary thought.

YEP and KK better be looking over her shoulder for the rest of her life. There's some kind of twisted justice there.

 

[gitana1]

Did he really think that guy was going to manage killing all those people?

PF is delusional.

I wonder what CC thinks of him now.

It’s childish. “Ok listen. I’m going to need you to go ahead and kill or abduct 12 people including law enforcement. Mmmkay? And then I’m going to need you to go ahead and make sure it’s all done by 11-22...but don’t worry. You’ll be saving a little girl’s life. And since you’re a career criminal who never met this kid I know that will be important to you. And of course you’ll be saving MY life. And I need you to HELP ME! Because of course “I’M somehow important to you. Added perk? You can get some garage-saleable items from some of their houses. Believe me! The potential gain is worth the incredible risk! Mmmkay?”

 

[dkryder]

Excellent post!!!!!

jeepers, thanks

 

[Warwick7]

If SF did bail John Doe out of jail, and then he had several weeks out of
Jail....... just curious if he may have been considering actually preforming a hit,
Before going to authorities at the last minute?!
Scary

MOO
He first wanted to sell them.
Second he'd thought he'd use them to lower/alter what's against him.

"Someone" paid for him to bond out.
I feel he had no intentions on killing or abducting anyone.

 

[GordianKnot]

My guess is PF and SF had set up a coded language discussing “the horses are taken care of” and references to “elk hunting” .... it wouldn’t surprise me at all to learn that SF helped him with this as PF doesn’t seem bright enough to think of these schemes. But then he was dumb enough to clearly write all the details of retaliation on paper napkins for all to see.

BBM:

I think that's precisely what they did.

What I'm wondering is when exactly this "secret code" was developed between the two of them.

I wonder if in fact what SF said to Ma when he called her from the townhome on Thanksgiving Day was, "The horses are taken care of, but it took me longer than I thought to corral them. I'll be late for dinner."

There are only 2 possibilities here:

1) They either developed this secret coded language b/t them before KB was murdered, or

2) They developed it after KB was murdered.

If they came up with their coded lingo after the murder, they most likely established it between themselves somehow after PF was arrested and behind bars.

Teller County Jail & Detention Center Info: Visiting, Bail, Location, Safety

According to the link above, visits and phone calls are both monitored and recorded at the Teller Co. Jail.

Interestingly, though, both incoming and outgoing mail at the jail is "inspected but not read."

I suspect that this is where PF got the "idea" that writing letters to Bentley was much more discreet than communicating w/ him via phone.

I think he and Ma sent letters back and forth to each other as a means of relaying info and establishing their incredibly clever, which is to say, unbelievably stupid, top secret coded language.

JMO.

 

[gitana1]

Why does PF keep saying in the letters that JM's partner Wendy is "a cash cow" ? What is he getting at with that, any thoughts?

Abduct her and make her clean out her bank accounts like he’s some Mexican drug cartel member.

It’s laughable. I mean he acts like one low rent “ganara” from Colorado is going to be able to go on a high level killing spree for a stranger, in exchange for a little bit of loot.

@MemPat said it perfectly. The boy ain’t right.