Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #116

[Cryptic]

I also must believe that he has/had SOME understanding of the local terrain. This guy knew the trails, the bridge, the path to the creek, the surrounding woods. OR, maybe he didn't.

Statistically. I think your first option is far more probable.

Most, and perhaps even a significant majority of criminals commit crimes (both horrendous and mundane) in areas that they are familiar with and thus are comfortable in.

In this case, the perpetrator was in a relatively obscure park, felt comfortable on a high bridge, comfortable crossing a creek, and apparently also knew the unmarked shortcuts into and out of the area.

Though none of this knowledge is secret or highly specialized, I think the totality of it loudly says: "local" or "former local".

Then factor in that his clothes and personal appearance are neat and non transient like and that the area does not appear be a popular stop with transients.

 

[Cryptic]

I believe that murder may not have been the objective that day, yet it very well may have been, however, a confrontation was planned that day, and it resulted in murder. What was the motive for the confrontation?

Random guy wanting to engage in sexual assault/murder? I don't buy in to that premise.

I also support your first possibility of a planned confrontation that was either intended to end in murder or or escalated to murder.

At the same time, I don't think the random possibility can be rules. Such scenario would not involve a totally random guy.

Rather, it would be a "selected" group of random:

A man pre disposed to commit sex crimes and who on "angry days" or "dark mood" days trawls an area that he is familiar with. He then acts when all the circumstances are "right": mood, victim, opportunity, personal preparedness etc

 

[Boxer]

The offender went to a remote area with possibly more people present that day? Why going to a remote area to begin with then?

-Nin

Good question-
I would say same reason Abby and Libby went. Day off.

 

[Cryptic]

I know. The whole creek crossing stuff bugs me to no end. Maybe his adrenaline rush kept him warm.

Though I would not seek out getting wet on that day, the day was unseasonably warm.

Then factor in that as another poster pointed out, people accustomed to being physically uncomfortable would not be discouraged from that level of cold and wet.

Such people could be farmers, construction tradesmen, work in agriculture (food processing, well digging etc.), or be hiking, hunting / fishing hobbyists etc.

 

[Ozoner]

If I am to believe BG did not plan this murder, then how do I rationalize his presence at the bridge that day? Was it a place he visited often, and this day decided to sexually assault two girls, which led to the murders? He obviously had prior intent to interact with these two girls for some reason. The random appearance of the two girls that day, while he was there, is possible too, making it a crime of opportunity.

Maybe the actual murder was not planned, and maybe the interacting with these particular two girls was not planned, but some criminal act that day was planned by this guy. Possibly the next available target was all he was interested in.

I also must believe that he has/had SOME understanding of the local terrain. This guy knew the trails, the bridge, the path to the creek, the surrounding woods. OR, maybe he didn't. Maybe he corralled them down the hill, they ran, he followed, and the crime scene was random, simply where the girls ran whilst he was in pursuit.

However, I don't think this was his first time across that bridge, or in those woods. No matter his original intent that day, he almost had to have an escape route planned. To not have one would be extremely risky.

So he could have been there over the past weeks, numerous times, awaiting his opportunity. But do you really think he would have chosen TWO girls for sexual assault and/or murder? That in and of itself would substantially increase his risk factor. This is one of the reasons I think this murder was planned, if not murder, then some other reason to confront these particular two girls. He knew the girls would be there. And this is also the reason I believe there is likely another perp in the picture.

Snipped/BBM

To be clear, I'm not arguing that BG didn't contemplate rape or murder that day, only that he didn't target these particular girls prior to encountering them on the trail.
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There is no evidence that the girls' appearance at the bridge could have been predicted by BG or anyone else. It's clear that the girls didn't know BG, and Abby's mother was adamant that she wouldn't gone to meet a boy without getting dolled up. That and the fact that no digital trail has been found rules out the idea that they were catfished.
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The far-and-away most likely scenario is that BG had been fantasizing about rape and murder for some time. That day, he decided to troll for victims. Maybe he had trolled for victims many times, maybe he hadn't; maybe these were his first murders, maybe they weren't. When he saw Abby and Libby, he decided they would be his victims. That would jive with the way other serial killers have described selecting their victims.
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He may have had a very loose plan or several alternate plans, or he may have winged it.

 

[Ravenmoon]

There's no evidence whatsoever that an attack was planned in advance against these two girls. I'm not sure why some people continue to cling to that idea; perhaps the thought of a double-homicide like this being random is too scary for some people.
It's possible that BG planned to commit murder that day, and maybe he had a vague idea of using the bridge as a trap, but his precise movements were probably decided in the moment.
He may have intended to sexually assault the girls and then kill them, or he may have intended only to sexually assault them but may have become enraged because he couldn't perform sexually. It's difficult to say without knowing how the girls were killed and how they were placed.

Why do people tend to hold onto the thought that this was a premeditated murder?

The Jacket. Many people, from amateur sleuthers to seasoned profilers agree that whatever was hidden in this guys jacket was all that he needed to carry out his plans. The sexual assault is not a terribly far fetched theory, but in broad daylight it is unlikely that he would want them to live to tell about what they had experienced.

AMOO
EBM for grammar

 

[JnRyan]

Which fact do you give more weight: The fact it was the day before Valentine's Day or the fact that there was no school? Do you think one or both facts were important for the offender, or none?

-Nin

The only thought I tend to give to no school is that Abigail and Liberty would be there in the middle of what would usually be a school day. Unless this guy was a high school junior or senior, I doubt he was even aware of the no school. And even less likely if he lived out of the area.

I do wonder about the day before Valentine's Day. Coincidence? Or a trigger for the killer? I give it some weight, but not much. I just can't ignore it or rule it out.

 

[almagata]

I've been trying to find some cases where a single perpetrator attacked two girls with the intention of sexually assaulting them in a public place like a trail. I have not been able to find cases like that.

There certainly are cases where multiple perpetrators have attacked multiple victims on a trail with the intent to sexually assault them.

There have been cases where a single perpetrator has attacked couples in remote places with the intent to sexually assault the female. In most of these cases, the male is either killed quickly or the male is bound quickly.

If someone has some examples of cases where two females were attacked on trails for the intent to sexually assault both victims by a lone perpetrator, can you post info about these cases. I would like to read more about them.

 

[busymcmoody]

I've been trying to find some cases where a single perpetrator attacked two girls with the intention of sexually assaulting them in a public place like a trail. I have not been able to find cases like that.

There certainly are cases where multiple perpetrators have attacked multiple victims on a trail with the intent to sexually assault them.

There have been cases where a single perpetrator has attacked couples in remote places with the intent to sexually assault the female. In most of these cases, the male is either killed quickly or the male is bound quickly.

If someone has some examples of cases where two females were attacked on trails for the intent to sexually assault both victims by a lone perpetrator, can you post info about these cases. I would like to read more about them.

I think I heard the other day on a podcast that it's super rare and has happened in total 15 times in the past.
One that comes to mind is the Iowa case (Lyric Cook/Elizabeth Collins - not sure about the SA here thought).

 

[sunshineray]

Why are LE holding on to a vehicle description, though?

Because they know the vehicle and who it belongs to. What they need is confirmation that it was actually there. I'm thinking they might only have one person who initially mentioned seeing a certain make and model parked there when they arrived to start looking for the girls. The LE may need someone else to confirm it because it's only general information they received. Could be the killer has associated himself with the searching. LE needs to put him there before he puts himself there, when he told police he was first there, because they know he's lying. JMO

 

[Falling Down]

Because they know the vehicle and who it belongs to. What they need is confirmation that it was actually there. I'm thinking they might only have one person who initially mentioned seeing a certain make and model parked there when they arrived to start looking for the girls. The LE may need someone else to confirm it because it's only general information they received. Could be the killer has associated himself with the searching. LE needs to put him there before he puts himself there, when he told police he was first there, because they know he's lying. JMO

Very interesting take on the vehicle part of the investigation. Like others I was surprised they brought it up at all at the PC in April, and on a personal level I was disappointed they waited two years to bring up a vehicle parked near the CPS building.

My take on eyewitness accounts of a vehicle parked along 300 near to the CPS building is they had a tip or tips early on. My theory about the time frame they're referencing is they know it was there per eyewitness accounts. Traffic on 300 would have been sparse, which is typical for that road, however people do use it as a shortcut from roads east of there, to get into Delphi. 300 is the most direct route into town via a local road, from the other side of IN 25.

There would have been vehicles driving by the vehicle in question, I think earlier on. Sounds like there were people at the bridge area and trails during the morning time, then there were just a handful of folks in the area during the early afternoon hours, including BG, and A&L. My hunch is BG was there for 3.5 to 4 hours.

Very well could be someone has given LE an alibi, which might be why they're asking about the driver, who may not necessarily be the owner of the vehicle.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

I think I heard the other day on a podcast that it's super rare and has happened in total 15 times in the past.
One that comes to mind is the Iowa case (Lyric Cook/Elizabeth Collins - not sure about the SA here thought).

FBI state indicate 15 times since 1974.

Of those roughly 30 victims abducted, I don't know how many were killed.

After the Iowa case in 2012, a guy abducted two young women in Iowa, killed one but the other got away. Upon finding out the one gal escaped, he killed
himself.

Dual abductions in broad daylight out in public are very rare.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Which fact do you give more weight: The fact it was the day before Valentine's Day or the fact that there was no school? Do you think one or both facts were important for the offender, or none?

-Nin

The answer to that great question, @JnRyan, would be a "Yes"! (i. e., both of the choices)

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Or a young person for whom outdoor activity was usual.

Or someone -- perhaps a younger person -- for whom record-breaking running + long-time knowledge of the MHB and nearby trails + the no-school schedule all happened to "merge" on the same day...

 

[Tiger Stripes]

I think the killer in this case was simply a loner out for a walk. Some people just enjoy walking out in nature. How did he know about the Monon High Bridge trail? Maybe he passed a sign about it enough that he wanted to see it?

Dear @somequestions, based on the photographs of the MHB itself (and this is just "me", of course), I have a tremendously hard time imagining someone completely unfamiliar with the MHB just traipsing over it -- especially should they happen to have various "cargo" (or nefarious tools) in their pants pockets that might shift as the individual walks on those "iffy" boards... One miss, and... one would lose balance, falling instantly, to the waters far below. MOO.

 

[Ozoner]

Why do people tend to hold onto the thought that this was a premeditated murder?

The Jacket. Many people, from amateur sleuthers to seasoned profilers agree that whatever was hidden in this guys jacket was all that he needed to carry out his plans. The sexual assault is not a terribly far fetched theory, but in broad daylight it is unlikely that he would want them to live to tell about what they had experienced.

AMOO
EBM for grammar

To be clear, I don't doubt that BG was trolling for a victim and planning to commit rape and murder. However, I see no evidence that he targeted Libby and Abby prior to encountering them on the trail. He was waiting for the right victim or victims, and for some reason they struck his fancy.

 

[Cutiekitty]

Which fact do you give more weight: The fact it was the day before Valentine's Day or the fact that there was no school? Do you think one or both facts were important for the offender, or none?

-Nin

No school. I don’t totally discount the day before Valentine’s Day though.

 

[PaulaDC]

Cole's show is addicting, haha! As for Abby & Libby's killer, I have to agree the killer wouldn't stand out if he just had dirt, etc. on his clothing. Pretty sure he would stand out some if he was soaking wet and/or had blood on his clothing.

I like the theory that he ended up going up the creek or through the woods to find an alternate way out from the crime scene. How does that square, though, with LE asking for info about cars parked at the old social services office that day?

That he abandoned it and got a ride to retrieve it. Moo

 

[BNA]

Good question-
I would say same reason Abby and Libby went. Day off.

I simply don't buy that the girls went there because it was a day off from school. Seems to me more likely that they would want to go to the mall or something like that....unless they believed something was going on out there that day. JMO.

 

[Mzt]

I simply don't buy that the girls went there because it was a day off from school. Seems to me more likely that they would want to go to the mall or something like that....unless they believed something was going on out there that day. JMO.

I grew up in a small town and at their ages we found the mall boring if we didnt have money to spend so a day off spent walking around was normal. That was a long time ago though and it's only my experience. We literally hung out at a gravel pit. No other people, just 2 or 4 girls spending all day walking up massive gravel hills and sliding down them. Doesn't sound typical but you make your own fun in a small town.