CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #66

[scdiv]

The defense doesn't have to prove anything including who wrote the letters. The entire burden is on the prosecution. I'm looking forward to closing arguments.

JMO

Right. And if the prosecution's evidence is strong, the defense might want to show anything they have that would dispute that. But, they chose not to challenge Slater in any way on cross examination.

 

[gitana1]

Sure it is possible that PF told his defense team that he wrote the notes. However, I highly doubt it.

JMO

I doubt it either. Instead, they would ask him if it’s worth it to challenge authentication with experts, forensics. They would explain the consequences if he was the author. And as a result a decision was made not to challenge authenticity.

So he didn’t likely straight out tell his attorneys but he made it clear he was the author.

There is no other feasible reason why the defense team wouldn’t make the objections I listed earlier urging testimony, nor request more time to challenge authenticity.

PF was asked if he wanted more time and he told the judge “no”.

 

[MemPat]

The defense doesn't have to prove anything including who wrote the letters. The entire burden is on the prosecution. I'm looking forward to closing arguments.

JMO

I think we can be sure of this: that the closing arguments of the defense will be different from what they would have been two weeks ago now that all the evidence has been presented, including the Paper Towel Tales.

No one would still be trying to defend long-discounted theories of the case once they were outed by facts.

 

[MyBelle]

Why does the source of the 'evidence' matter much when the HAND that WROTE the letters belonged to PF?

But the other telling matter was that I believe the Jury did not ask any questions about the letters. We have seen this Jury asking questions throughout this trial and they appear to be actively engaged.

Here is link to the 17 letters and some background info should you have any further questions:

Patrick Frazee murder trial: 10 key moments from testimony

Quotes from article:
Letters, former inmate: Frazee wanted witnesses dead

Prosecutors showed 17 different letters that a witness, who's a former inmate, said he exchanged with Frazee, who was in the same jail. The man is on probation now.

In their passed notes, Frazee asked the man to kill witnesses — Kenney, Michelle Stein (Kenney’s friend in Idaho), John Moore (Frazee's friend who previously testified), Wendi Clark (Moore’s significant other) and lead Colorado Bureau of Investigation Agent Gregg Slater — and described where they live now and what they look like. In a testimony, Slater confirmed the descriptions of each person and their places of residences were all accurate. [BBM]

In one letter, Frazee allegedly wrote he’d “really like to see Kenney with a bullet in her head.”

In another letter, he allegedly wrote: “I’m excited if we can pull this off — only thing better would be if Krystal sent someone a text from her phone confessing and telling the truth that I didn’t have anything to do with it at all. Gregg Slater and all five disappear," referencing Kenney's family, including her children and Chad Lee, and Stein.

Most of the letters had instructions to flush the bathroom paper towels once the former inmate had read the message.

Frazee trial: Letters say Frazee asked inmate to kill witnesses

Quotes from Article:

Prosecutor Beth Reed then called up Gregg Slater, the CBI agent, who went through 17 of the letters that Frazee and the inmate allegedly passed back and forth while in the Teller County Jail. Slater said he reviewed these letters. He said all the letters appeared to match Frazee’s handwriting. [BBM]

He read them out loud in the newsroom.

And you think PF, sitting in jail, has memorized the addresses of people like Michelle Stein? I certainly don't believe that at all.

JMO

 

[Aydrianna523]

I can tell you that my little sister died tragically last year, and both of her boys are now receiving those benefits monthly. She did not work at her job for 10 yrs. This is just my experience so MOO

Thank you!

 

[Aydrianna523]

One and half years in a 3 year period.


But no one needs more than 10 years of work to be eligible for any Social Security benefit. Under a special rule, if you've worked for one and one-half years in the three years just before your death, we can pay benefits to your children and your spouse who is caring for the children.
View attachment 215508
The United States Social Security Administration › pubs
Survivors Benefits - Social Security

Interesting....

 

[enelram]

So if DA is only planning on 30 min. for closing
arguments, how long will the defense take?
5 minutes?

 

[MassGuy]

So if DA is only planning on 30 min. for closing
arguments, how long will the defense take?
5 minutes?

The DA’s opening statement took up much of the allotted time. The defense’s took up mere minutes.

The Prosecution’s case spanned several days, and dozens of witnesses.

The defense immediately rested, calling no one.

So yes, if the pattern holds true, the defense won’t say much. It’s not like there’s much to say anyways.

 

[MemPat]

The 'beauty' of the brain of PF is that he probably did his instructing to his jail pal in front of a hidden CCTV camera complete with sound in full view of multiple LE officers charged with monitoring the jail!

Its unusual to see someone unable to get out of their own way all the time but PF seems to be just this person IMO.

Patrick alone could make up an episode of "See No Evil" with his man-about-town videos. The one in the jail would be the Gotcha' one shown after the last commercial!

His episode of "Forensics Files" would have to check the paper towels against the ones at the jail to see in what factory and at what time they were manufactured.

But PF's actually more suited to that old show about stupid criminals whose name I can't remember.

 

[enelram]

Well crap, now that I think about it, we had to provide my sister’s death certificate in order to get those benefits for her boys.

So, my question is... if PF is found guilty of murdering Kelsey, will that be enough to receive a death certificate and declare her deceased?

Depends on the jurisdiction, different rules in
different areas.
Probably her next of kin would need to petition the court to issue a death certificate.

 

[afitzy]

And you think PF, sitting in jail, has memorized the addresses of people like Michelle Stein? I certainly don't believe that at all.

JMO

Not sure what PF memory and knowledge of his personal contact list while in jail has to do with the 17 letters exactly but it was clear looking through the letters that PF did not have perfect information on all of the people on the 'hit list'.

The letters so far as I can tell don't have GPS pin point accuracy on how to find each of the named individuals on the PF 'Hit List'. PF instead named names, gave physical descriptions, said who was hanging out with whom and where and other details on how to find the folks on the "Hit List". In short, the information PF gave in the notes was probably good enough for a reasonably intelligent 'hitman' to find all the people on the list IMO.

PF had enough information on Michelle Stein for example to share where she lived in terms of town and how she could be found.

Unless his 'hitman' was totally inept (totally possible IMO here with PF) then it would most likely be not too hard to track down Michelle Stein and KK or any other of the players on the PF "Hit List" IMO.

And, as the 'hitman' wasn't doing charity work for PF, PF seems somewhat clear that the 'hitman' was to contact SF for possible payment or further details although this was left a bit more vague IMO.

I do hope LE will investigate this aspect of the letters as the idea of people outside the jail sanctioning and paying for action on a 12 person 'hit list' prepared by PF is concerning given the fate met by KB in this tragic case.

 

[MemPat]

Agreed.
It's possible that many trails in this sad case will lead right back to ma.
LE can make discoveries about any involvement without her assistance and they probably don't want her 'help' for a variety of reasons.
SF's possible lying to LE would become an issue and so would LE tipping her off so she could go and hide evidence.

No, if anyone else in this case needs to be brought to justice besides the miscreants already being dealt with ... the evidence itself or a helpful son in jail will nail SF.
As in, the final nail in her coffin.

In other circumstances LE might think the murderer's mother had suffered enough but I think Ma F is a whole different animal.

They can't have forgotten the torment of Kelsey's mom as she tried to see BabyK but was denied that by Ma F and Patrick.

Add the fact that the Berreth's had to go through the agony of going to Family Court and I believe LE will chase Ma F with a vengeance.

They may give themselves until the new year to go after her but, Ma F, that storm's blowin' in and the shelter is shut.

 

[MemPat]

Can someone fill in some blanks here-
I saw some comments this week that MaF was
probably on the witness list and thus couldn't
sit in on the trial so she was relegated to sitting in the hallway waiting her turn to be called.
Right so far?
Is it possible that this was a ploy by DA to keep her out of hearing distance of the other witnesses (like John Doe and Slater) because
DA plans to file charges against her for her
illegal participation in the 'kill list'?
Maybe this was a brilliant move by DA. ????

Yes to all of the above.
I don't think DA May knows how to do this any way but brilliant.

 

[afitzy]

And they’ve more than met their burden. The fact that the defense didn’t make any effort to discredit the letters, tells us all we need to know.

The prosecution produced a mountain of evidence, and the defense made no effort to even call someone to attempt to refute it. It spoke for itself, as does their response.

Closing arguments should be fun, especially when it comes to the defense. I’m already laughing at the prospect of what they will claim.

Actually your avatar probably sums up the available options for the defense closing statement at this point IMO.

Wonder though if they will lead off with "No Body, No Crime" and then close with "Well, Exactly"?

Very slim pickings but I'm open to hearing some ideas!

 

[MemPat]

The defense doesn't have to prove anything including who wrote the letters. The entire burden is on the prosecution. I'm looking forward to closing arguments.

JMO

Call me crazy but I think any defense team would be beating the bushes for proof of innocence here whether they had a burden to do so or not.

An innocent man would have been screaming from his chair, "I didn't write those letters! Get me a handwriting expert!" Paramedics would have to carry him out in a strait jacket.

 

[Gigi3]

Not sure what PF memory and knowledge of his personal contact list while in jail has to do with the 17 letters exactly but it was clear looking through the letters that PF did not have perfect information on all of the people on the 'hit list'.

The letters so far as I can tell don't have GPS pin point accuracy on how to find each of the named individuals on the PF 'Hit List'. PF instead named names, gave physical descriptions, said who was hanging out with whom and where and other details on how to find the folks on the "Hit List". In short, the information PF gave in the notes was probably good enough for a reasonably intelligent 'hitman' to find all the people on the list IMO.

PF had enough information on Michelle Stein for example to share where she lived in terms of town and how she could be found.

Unless his 'hitman' was totally inept (totally possible IMO here with PF) then it would most likely be not too hard to track down Michelle Stein and KK or any other of the players on the PF "Hit List" IMO.

And let’s not forget the possibility of someone on the outside gathering intel of these people on the list. No doubt PF could’ve had help. MOO

ETA: of course he would have to rely on someone else to provide details for these people- his brain definitely couldn’t hold all that info! MOO

 

[Mormon Attorney]

The DA’s opening statement took up much of the allotted time. The defense’s took up mere minutes.

The Prosecution’s case spanned several days, and dozens of witnesses.

The defense immediately rested, calling no one.

So yes, if the pattern holds true, the defense won’t say much. It’s not like there’s much to say anyways.

If I were the defense, I would truly be having a terrible time even thinking about how to frame all of this..... His paper towels have added a complexity that I would not wish on any attorney at the last hour. An attorney's worst nightmare....your client's own statements destroying the case during the 4th quarter.

 

[Aydrianna523]

Actually your avatar probably sums up the available options for the defense closing statement at this point IMO.

Wonder though if they will lead off with "No Body, No Crime" and then close with "Well, Exactly"?

Very slim pickings but I'm open to hearing some ideas!

 

[oviedo]

May I ask what would cause you to doubt it? Do you think Steigerwald was napping, lol? J/K, of course.

Seriously though, seems he would have shredded JB John Doe to pieces if there was any doubt that PF wrote the notes and that didn't happen. Not even close. Not one objection. MOO

Because it’s very clear to me PF admitted to his attorney IMO that he authored those paper towels

 

[MassGuy]

Actually your avatar probably sums up the available options for the defense closing statement at this point IMO.

Wonder though if they will lead off with "No Body, No Crime" and then close with "Well, Exactly"?

Very slim pickings but I'm open to hearing some ideas!

“Ignore everything the prosecution has presented, and vote with your heart, not your head. This won’t be popular with the public, but I ask that you do what is best for my client. He’s got animals to abuse, and those cattle aren’t going to beat themselves. Please do what any good gangster would do, and set my client free. I have one question for you: How gangster will you be?”