CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #66

[MemPat]

I would pre-order a copy on Amazon right this minute!

Actually, what is very telling to me is that there was no attempt by the defense to call their own expert witness, either a handwriting "expert" or someone who could exclude PF's finger prints. Wouldn't it be easier for the defense to present experts who would cast a shadow of reasonable doubt on the prosecution's claims? jmo.

You know how you eat something that tastes awful
so you spit it out as fast as you can and hope to
never see that nasty food again?

I think the defense wanted to spit that evidence out
really fast and never hear it mentioned again.

I bet they don't even mention it in Closing "Arguments/Acquiescence"!

 

[Irmese]

I would pre-order a copy on Amazon right this minute!


You know how you eat something that tastes awful
so you spit it out as fast as you can and hope to
never see that nasty food again?

I think the defense wanted to spit that evidence out
really fast and never hear it mentioned again.

I bet they don't even mention it in Closing "Arguments/Acquiescence"!

Lol! Have you ever ordered something at a restaurant and hated it and then told everyone at your table to taste it and see if it's as bad as you think? Maybe the defense will say, "This is so bad, we will repeat it. Do you hate it, too?"

 

[gitana1]

im so glad you got my point - thank you

Loud and clear!

 

[MemPat]

I think what Sam said was that his station didn't go the transcript route because a professional court reporter would have cost $3,000/day he explained. I will never understand why the media outlets didn't band together and use their collective resources to fund a court reporter as it seems like that might have allowed the reporters to report vs doing their best with challenging acoustics and seating to get as many details as they could. All this being said, reporters such as Sam and others were creative and inventive and used social media platforms to deliver the messages from the street, hotel rooms and inside cars to share information and it worked well IMO given the limitations imposed by the Court.

I'm so impressed that Sam stayed in a hotel all week and did the videos after being in court all day. He certainly did himself proud with 1000+ viewers sticking around for several hours straight each night.

I didn't look to see which network KOAA is part of but I would think, with the world watching this case, they could have easily made their money back in clicks.

Maybe they've learned something. Sam may be moving on to bigger things!

 

[MemPat]

Lol! Have you ever ordered something at a restaurant and hated it and then told everyone at your table to taste it and see if it's as bad as you think? Maybe the defense will say, "This is so bad, we will repeat it. Do you hate it, too?"

How funny! I was just typing my thoughts along those same lines!
Great minds...

 

[MemPat]

That's the big question. Will they postulate a location of the murder or just say that there's no evidence of all the blood in the condo? That's definitely weak sauce IMO. I think they may try to stick with KB ran away, which would be foolish.
MOO.

Yeah, KB slinging her blood every which way before running would be hard to sell.

 

[MemPat]

IDK. I'm totally guessing on all of this, just trying to figure out what they will try. The defense case is terribly weak, but they have to do something. I think all of us on WS know there are some weak points (eta: in the prosecution's case) that the defense will try to magnify, but they (eta: the defense) haven't been able to effectively refute any of the evidence against PF so far. The closing statement is their last hurrah.

I'm still tapping my fingers waiting for the first hurrah.

 

[gitana1]

You are right MyBelle, sounds like the defense did object.
However, in the presence of the jury, the ones who decide their client's fate, the defense chose not to cross examine agent Slater on his familiarity with the writing. They did not.
As in the words of riolove77 this is telling....

It’s no coincidence that all three attorneys posting here are in consensus.

 

[MemPat]

Technically, the jury hasn't caught PF in any lies because he has the right to remain silent.
I've seen no evidence the witness contacted the defense team in October or at any time.

Google SF's name and 8 names will pop up with name, address, phone number and a list of people they know. Not all that hard for a convict in need of money and a sweet plea deal.
JMO

Witness... Testimony... Evidence.
I'm taking Sam Kraemer and all those reporters' word that they saw evidence presented by a witness under oath testifying that Patrick wrote those Paper Towel Tales and gave them to him.

The defense made no argument that this evidence was false though they had time and opportunity.
No talk of handwriting analysis. No talk of missing fingerprints. No nothing.

We can keep throwing all this stuff into the air and make a word salad but we still say the same thing. Over and over and over.

 

[kkdj]

It is like he thought his "friend" and his people were just going to round up all the people on the list and hold them hostage until the 22nd. At what point do they say, Enough! We need to take a closer look at this guy's brain? I really want to hear more about him from locals who grew up with him and went through school with him.

Some of his wording was little confusing but I ended up thinking PF wanted all the witnesses killed and not to be discovered, not even one of them, until after the 22nd. Not kidnapped and released. He didn't want them to ever be able to tell anything. Plus, he wasn't negotiating with a regular burglar. He was negotiationg with a gang affiliation type. jmo

 

[Oregon]

Strange still that if he did, KK did not mention it, guess I expected her to if that was the case.

KK left early, I believe the fire burned all night. Frazee had hours to decide to burn/not to burn. He might have been watching Forensic Files to pass the time.

 

[Warwick7]

It’s no coincidence that all three attorneys posting here are in consensus.

BAM!!!!!

 

[gitana1]

I think what Sam said was that his station didn't go the transcript route because a professional court reporter would have cost $3,000/day he explained. I will never understand why the media outlets didn't band together and use their collective resources to fund a court reporter as it seems like that might have allowed the reporters to report vs doing their best with challenging acoustics and seating to get as many details as they could. All this being said, reporters such as Sam and others were creative and inventive and used social media platforms to deliver the messages from the street, hotel rooms and inside cars to share information and it worked well IMO given the limitations imposed by the Court.

Smart thought! Why didn’t they?

 

[gitana1]

I know I was stunned at how little they did.

Me too. I expected more. It speaks to the strength of the state’s case. It’s that simple.

 

[gitana1]

What makes you think there could be a mistrial?

Like if it’s hung.

 

[zea mays]

If I could, I would have asked Bentley, ' so did he actually bail you out or not?'

Yes! 'How, exactly, did your bail come about?"

In in the presence of the jury their job was to cross examine that investigator to show he was not a handwriting analysis expert and to try to cast doubt as to the authorship of those letters.

....Unless they knew that to do so would be futile because the next thing would be rebuttal witnesses showing:

1. A comparison to documents known to be in PF’s writing.
2. An expert handwriting analyst.
3. Evidence showing the receipt on which a letter was written was PF’s.

They didn’t go there because they knew it would dig the hole deeper.

So to review:

Claims that there was likely no evidence KK wasn’t or couldn’t have been in town when the murder happened? WRONG

Claims that there wasn’t blood all over the condo indicating a crime scene? WRONG

Claims that the blood found all over the condo wasn’t proved to be Kelsey’s? WRONG.

Claims that there was no evidence that what was found in burn pile was a human tooth, let alone likely Kelsey’s? WRONG.

Claims that it is not credible that letters purported to be written by PF, in which he is inexplicably trying to get all the key witnesses against him to be killed, were actually were written by the defendant? WRONG. (Also interesting that the back up to that claim is “Well he doesn’t admit to killing her!” Lol)

I’m sure others could remind me of all the other claims made in this case that have turned out to be...wrong.

The death throws of a dead defense.

Bravo/a!

I’m sure they tried to keep out the letters altogether on those grounds via motions in limine that were denied. But one thing is to try to keep it from even being addressed before a jury. That’s a motion in limine to exclude evidence before the other side tries to admit it.

Another is objecting based on various grounds during testimony. “Contemporaneous objections”. You don’t just do one. You do both.

Because the motion is to exclude the evidence. If it’s not granted that doesn’t mean the evidence is automatically admitted. It’s just not excluded prior to testimony. They’re two different things.

ETA: Defense attorneys don’t throw in the towel in the hopes of an appeal. They preserve the record for appeal. Those are very different.

I think that this is a concept that many are missing in regards to appeals. People don't just get to appeal because they don't like the outcome of the trial. They have to object to something on the record, be denied on the record, AND then in the appeal trial the new judge has to determine that if the outcome of that objection were different the trial would have gone a different way. That's no small feat. If the defense misses an objection - they can't just catch that later and say "well, we wish we would've objected there so now fix that on appeal".

So, anything the defense isn't objecting to ON THE RECORD (ya know, like the authenticity of the letters, for example) is OFF THE TABLE for an appeal. They're not just biding their time for an appeal.

MOO & IANAL, but this is my understanding and I'm sure one of our attorneys will correct me if I'm wrong.

Agent Slater testified he is not a handwriting "expert" so what exactly was the defense supposed to question?

What is very telling to me is that there was no attempt by the prosecution to authenticate the letters either with a handwriting "expert" or with finger prints. Wouldn't it be easier for the defense to remind the jury of this lack of forensic evidence in closing?

JMO

Why do you put expert in quotes here? No one is purporting him to be a handwriting expert nor does he need to be.

 

[MassGuy]

Some of his wording was little confusing but I ended up thinking PF wanted all the witnesses killed and not to be discovered, not even one of them, until after the 22nd. Not kidnapped and released. He didn't want them to ever be able to tell anything. Plus, he wasn't negotiating with a regular burglar. He was negotiationg with a gang affiliation type. jmo

Oh yeah, make no mistake, he wanted those people dead.

At points he merely alluded to murder, or suggested kidnapping. That was probably an effort to refrain from using the word “murder,” in case those notes were discovered.

 

[Sillybilly]

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