Found Deceased UK - Libby Squire, 21, last seen outside Welly club, Hull, 31 Jan 2019 #17 *ARREST*

[crazychris]

However did I miss this? Only just come here by chance to check for news and see he's been charged. At last. Thank goodness. Remember folks, you may not like this, but he's innocent until proven guilty.

 

[Cherwell]

Remember folks, you may not like this, but he's innocent until proven guilty.

Presumed innocent until proven guilty.
If he's guilty, he's been guilty since the crime was committed.

 

[bluesntwos]

Starting with the assumption that spidercam shows him and Libby (which is a very good assumption for reasons that have been detailed here on numerous occasions) and that he gave his sister the strange tale that connects him to her physically within the relevant time frame (his claims of pushing her away) then I'd struggle to think of a reasonable version.

If he'd claimed to be working as a taxi driver or even just to be helping a distressed girl as his sister suggests - he would have dropped her somewhere safe or even unsafe and left. The dropping off part is conspicuously absent from his sisters account.

He'd have shown up on CCTV somewhere at a time that would be helpful to him and that would match his version. She probably would have been seen as well if dropped somewhere. She'd probably have got home somehow.

The police searches focused very quickly on the park. I would imagine that something concrete led them there - be it CCTV or dashcam or witness statements. That is not somewhere safe. After his arrest they searched a bench.

As you say - there is no good reason to go to a freezing cold, isolated park with a very vulnerable girl.

The time frame police seem interested in is 11pm to 3am. That's the period they requested info for - including the Croda CCTV which is close to that park. It's reasonable to assume there are reasons for that. So is it possible that CCTV footage doesn't show his car leaving the parks vicinity till around that time?

Spidercam is 12.10. That's a depressingly long time frame for a reasonable version.

So surely all reasonable versions start to fall down with the park and the time. As @Cherwell has pointed out she was not capable of consenting to anything should he have claimed that is why he went there. I can see no other reason to go there.

If he admits to rape (even if just by trying to claim consent) and then to leaving her there - she would have to have fallen prey to another predator. In a freezing cold, isolated park. Surely the probabilities of that are tiny

So the only versions I can think of where he could reasonably claim to leaving her after an inordinately long time are that that somehow she died of natural causes or she was attacked by someone else. Neither seem reasonable.

I hope he pleads guilty. Her loved ones shouldn't have to live through any more.

what about the man seen running from the park around 12.30 after the 15 minutes of screams, are we saying that wasnt PR? if it was he surely left the park. and the guy running in the croda vid was he connected to PR because i doubt that was him, looks far older and fatter to me or just a bloke that got spooked by something and ran. the croda vid is an oddity two appeals were made yet not a single person came forward to my knowledge, yet the taxi driver and the old guy who stopped to help libby did so quite quickly.

 

[mrjitty]

Presumed innocent until proven guilty.
If he's guilty, he's been guilty since the crime was committed.

Exactly - and that only means that burden lies with prosecution at trial.

There is no requirement for the general public, or indeed the police, to presume he is innocent. Indeed the Crown believes he is guilty.

 

[Newthoughts]

what about the man seen running from the park around 12.30 after the 15 minutes of screams, are we saying that wasnt PR? if it was he surely left the park. and the guy running in the croda vid was he connected to PR because i doubt that was him, looks far older and fatter to me or just a bloke that got spooked by something and ran. the croda vid is an oddity two appeals were made yet not a single person came forward to my knowledge, yet the taxi driver and the old guy who stopped to help libby did so quite quickly.

I guess there were discussions about the man running from the park before I found this site. Was any consensus reached on opinions on where he was actually seen running and from where the screams were heard? Or what did others think about it?. I'm dubious about witnesses who go to the papers so I've never known what to make of that. What do others think?

The Croda CCTV picks up 4 individuals on oak road pathway coming from the park towards Clough road.

People with good local knowledge have suggested that PR would most likely have entered the park at oak road just off Beresford. It's close to spidercam, there is space to park on the road (I guess the car park would be shut would it?), and there is an entrance to the park. The most logical place to head to.

If that's correct it wouldn't be logical to run away from where his car was -very close to the start of that pathway - towards Clough road at the opposite end.

He would then have to return to his car via well lit main roads. So I don't think it's him on that CCTV either. I do, however, wonder if the running man seen at 1.13 am could be the running man reported at 13.30 tho the timing would be way out.

Though I'm not local (my child is) I've driven along Clough road past where the Croda folk would have left that path had they stayed on it. It's well lit and busy. There's a police station and businesses and cafes. Could they not have been picked up by CCTV there as well?

 

[JosieJo]

We are not going to know really are we what evidence the prosecution uses ...whether they want to put him as any of the running men

The newspaper report said the witness heard screams over around 15 min and when they looked out of the window they saw a man "not dressed for the weather" running out of the park

Now if the police are relying on the screams part of the witness they cant really dismiss the running man part

Obviously we have no idea how accurate this is or if the prosecution will use it

If they did use it there could be many scenarios

He may have ran away and got straight into his car and drove off

He could have ran sat in his car waited and re entered the park to put her in the river

Could have drove off then returned ..I'd be surprised at this as how would he have justified this to to stop an earlier charge ?

Its difficult imo to know what the police feel about the croda witnesses ..they could have some vital evidence that puts activity at that later time or they could be just covering all bases and wanting witnesses to get in touch for a set number of hours after the event

We wont know if anyone useful came forward from cross cctv or not or what the police feel happened till the trial

 

[Cherwell]

There may have been other witnesses who heard the screams and/or saw someone running. We only know about the one who spoke to the media.

I've always felt that the Croda CCTV appeal was just covering all bases. It doesn't seem probable that anyone responded, since the appeal was repeated over several weeks. Most likely the people on camera didn't see anything useful and didn't want to get involved.

 

[Mommysleuth11]

Is it theoretically possible, the man seen running from the park not dressed for the weather, was someone spooked by the screams that others heard and not the cause of them? I know local teens use the park late on a night for example as a friends son used to 'hang out' and even camp out in there.

The croda witnesses and the timescales for the requested CCTV and dashcam footage are what lead me to believe he was 'in the area' until close to 3am, probably a little before.

 

[Newthoughts]

Is it theoretically possible, the man seen running from the park not dressed for the weather, was someone spooked by the screams that others heard and not the cause of them? I know local teens use the park late on a night for example as a friends son used to 'hang out' and even camp out in there.

The croda witnesses and the timescales for the requested CCTV and dashcam footage are what lead me to believe he was 'in the area' until close to 3am, probably a little before.

I'm 100% with you on the time frames and for the same reasons.

 

[JosieJo]

Is it theoretically possible, the man seen running from the park not dressed for the weather, was someone spooked by the screams that others heard and not the cause of them? I know local teens use the park late on a night for example as a friends son used to 'hang out' and even camp out in there.

The croda witnesses and the timescales for the requested CCTV and dashcam footage are what lead me to believe he was 'in the area' until close to 3am, probably a little before.

I did wonder if it was someone spooked by screams running out of the park ..the only thing that puts me off slightly is the not dressed for the weather comment..if hanging around the park in snow it seems unlikely if true

They also asked for dashcam footage till 3am as early as the 4th Feb which sounds standard practice but of course could still be relevant

 

[Niner]

Was wondering if anyone had heard "what" date in March is his next hearing? Just want to keep my notes up to date!

TIA!

 

[TheCasual]

I've not posted for a while.

It looked amazing send-off for Libby. Very emotional even from afar.

I think PR arrest was a formality. Dreading the information coming out during the trial.

 

[CrazyLilBlondie]

I think PR arrest was a formality. Dreading the information coming out during the trial.

I just pray its nothing like the Grace Millane case thats for sure!

 

[Marulinka]

I just pray its nothing like the Grace Millane case thats for sure!

I have a feeling we can epect he will try to sell the 'she came on to me' sort of story at the least (

 

[Newthoughts]

This weekend my child will come home from Hull for Christmas. My heart is breaking thinking of what Libby's family must be going through because she isn't.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Why are so many people assuming the evidence won't be conclusive? We simply don't know what the police have got. It could be it is just long and complex - for example forensic evidence of river Flora from the park to the Humber estuary. That would be time consuming in itself. We simply don't know what they have. Don't forget they've gone for a rape charge as well. CPS need evidence.

I also think he'll have said something to police. IMO the story his sister gave to the press was miles from their usual crap. Usually you get 'he'd never do such a thing' or 'we can't believe it'. He'd already fed his relatives a story that put him in the frame that night, I'd guess that would be his initial story.

He'd be daft not to give some kind of explanation to questions that are based on some kind of evidence otherwise there would be issues with him defending himself later. Doesn't the initial caution say something along the lines of not having to say anything but if you later try to use something you haven't said it may harm your defence?

I seem to remember his mum said to the press that 'he'd never do that' .

 

[Niner]

Any news on the March court date? TIA!

 

[Newthoughts]

I seem to remember his mum said to the press that 'he'd never do that' .

Whilst it's not sensible to give credence to anything written in the s@#t filled lie fest that is the Daily Mail - interviews with his mother were also slightly weirder than usual. Weird enough to be likely to be reported as translated rather than made up. Things like everyone has a weak side and no such thing as an ideal person.
‘I’d rather die than know he is guilty’ Mother of butcher arrested over Libby Squires disappearance

 

[Audiohoney]

Whilst it's not sensible to give credence to anything written in the s@#t filled lie fest that is the Daily Mail - interviews with his mother were also slightly weirder than usual. Weird enough to be likely to be reported as translated rather than made up. Things like everyone has a weak side and no such thing as an ideal person.
‘I’d rather die than know he is guilty’ Mother of butcher arrested over Libby Squires disappearance

The interview was odd. If his mother truly believed in his innocence it was a very strange use of words. Usually in these instances families tend to say things like “he absolutely would never be capable of such a crime” ... not (and I’m paraphrasing) “everyone has a bit of a weak side”. It sounded more to me that she HOPED he hadn’t done it as oppose to BELIEVED he hadn’t done it.

Whilst from what we know he’s not been previously charged with anything back in Poland, it made me wonder whether his mother had witnessed something odd about his character. Or whether his wife had mentioned something to his family about him behaving strangely.

His mother seemed to somehow be trying to make excuses for him or make sense of his behaviour out loud.

 

[Keine Engel]

Any news on the March court date? TIA!

No actual date has been set (that we know of) other than 'March '20.

I think this is the latest: (31st October '19)

Mr Relowicz will be asked to enter pleas at a further case management hearing in March. A date and venue for this hearing has not yet been set.

Speaking to the defendant, Judge Paul Watson QC, said: "Pawel Relowicz, will you stand up, please. Your trial is going to take place on the second of June next year.

"I have made various orders for things to happen between now and then, and there will be a further hearing in this case at some point in March 2020. There may be another hearing before that but at the moment the next time you will be brought back to court will be in March..."

HullDailyMail