Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #116

[BNA]

My apologies BNA, just had my Dad's memorial service this past wkend and fell a bit behind in things here. Are you referring here to the early 2017 PC with the stage full of men or are you referring to the 4/22/19 PC?

The first one.

 

[Charlot123]

Here is an interesting article

Open Cases: Why One-Third Of Murders In America Go Unresolved


“Homicide detectives say the public doesn't realize that clearing murders has become harder in recent decades. Vernon Geberth, a retired, self-described NYPD "murder cop" who wrote the definitive manual on solving homicides, says standards for charging someone are higher now — too high, in his opinion. He thinks prosecutors nowadays demand that police deliver "open-and-shut cases" that will lead to quick plea bargains.

He says new tools such as DNA analysis have helped, but that's been offset by worsening relationships between police and the public.

"If there is a distrust of the police themselves and the system, all of these scientific advances are not going to help us," he says.

Since at least the 1980s, police have complained about a growing "no snitch" culture, especially in minority communities. They say the reluctance of potential witnesses makes it hard to identify suspects.”

There is a link in the middle allowing you to compare communities as to their crime clearance rate.

 

[Charlot123]

Somebody posted recently a video interview with Sheriff Leazenby in his office. He mentions information giving by family (he doesn't state exactly) led them to believe the girls may have gone somewhere without informing adults...all paraphrasing, not quoting. Maybe whomever posted it can again, I can't find it.

Reposting. It was an interview taken by a local reporter from a nearby town, so it might have not made headlines.

 

[TheVisual]

The first one.

Go to page one of this thread and go down to media and timelines. On page one and post # 16 there is a link to the very first public conference with all the men on the stage, when we first heard BG's voice.

 

[gregjrichards]

My apologies BNA, just had my Dad's memorial service this past wkend and fell a bit behind in things here. Are you referring here to the early 2017 PC with the stage full of men or are you referring to the 4/22/19 PC?

Sincere condolences on the loss of your Dad @Torch Carrier

 

[busymcmoody]

If you haven't heard from your child, and no friend of your child has heard from your child, and no relative has heard from your child, my suggestion is to take immediate action.

This, absolutely this.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

You know what has baffled the day lights outta me for the longest time??? Why did LE give interviews to the most random frickin people??
MOO

 

[busymcmoody]

You know what has baffled the day lights outta me for the longest time??? Why did LE give interviews to the most random frickin people??
MOO

I think they just wanted to raise awareness. Do you think it hurt the case?

 

[sleuther0192837465]

I think they just wanted to raise awareness. Do you think it hurt the case?

You could be right, I just found it so odd! I don’t think it necessarily hurt the case, but it never made sense to me. I get reporters, because it would be put out there in the news, on tv, Facebook, etc. But the random Youtubers?? The call in’s? Just weird IMHO
ETA: Hmmm...maybe they were hoping BG would call in?? IDK Maybe it’s just me? I must be the only one that finds it odd...

 

[StarryStarryNight]

AFAIK, LE has never asked about anyone parked at the cemetery, anyone walking along CR 300, or any other roads north, east, southeast, or northeast of the area. Early on they asked if anyone was seen walking along Hoosier Heartland Hwy between Logansport and Lafayette, or vehicles parked at the trailhead, and now the vehicle at the CPS lot.

It's possible that LE staging at the cemetery might have destroyed evidence there, but I also think it's possible that there was some clue at the crime scene as to which way he left. If they had no idea which way he left, why only ask about (and conduct road checks/blocks) on the roads south, west, and northwest of the crime scene?

I agree that if this was a planned attack, with a planned location for the murder, the cemetery would be the most logical place to park. But as has been mentioned above, what are the chances that everything would fall into place just right for him to get those girls where he wanted them (which involved crossing a creek), without being seen, or heard, and with no evidence he was ever at the cemetery at all? There's a hearsay witness to someone leaving the cemetery, but we don't know if it's true, and that was during the OBG sketch era.

A lot of focus has been put on the fact that Abby lived south of the trail. That is curious. But I'm more interested in the fact that Libby lived northeast of the trail. There were only a couple rural routes KG could have taken to get to where she dropped off the girls. Who might have seen them driving? Who could have had reason to be on those roads already? How easy would it have been to drive past and see the girls get out, then drive around the curve and park at the CPS lot?

These are the thoughts that make me lean toward an unplanned attack that ended with BG wet, muddy, possibly bloody, and forced to find an alternate route out. Who knows, maybe he kept in the woods and cleaned himself elsewhere in the creek. Or lived nearby so walked an inconspicuous route home, cleaned up, then went back for his car later.

There are so many options in my mind. All my theories are like swiss cheese, though...

The theory I’ve held onto the longest involves the killer seeing them on the way to the trails. In fact, it’s a lot like what you just said here. But then, also like you, I’ve got plenty of them now.

 

[PaulaDC]

This case isn’t related to Abigail and Liberty’s I’m posting it as a shocking example of how different a real photo of a perp can look compared to a police sketch.

“Prosecutor slammed for using his 13-year-old daughter as BAIT to catch a man she said had molested her after he sent her back to the spot where she was allegedly attacked“

Prosecutor criticized for using 14-year-old daughter as bait to catch molester | Daily Mail Online

View attachment 215932

I’m shocked how different the police sketch in this case is so different to the real photo of the perp it makes me wonder how realistic the sketch in Abigail and Liberty’s case is.

I see similarities. The uneven eyes, that high spot on his upper lip......I'm amazed when those little things pop up in a sketch. Those are the real clues.

 

[margarita25]

(O/T, I just came across an article about a Denver cold case. A few things made me think of our case here, as far as witnesses coming forward in the future.:

10 years after man’s death, family adds thousands to reward fund in search for closure

“Sara Johnston Feldman with Metro Denver Crime Stoppers said, “Any time there`s reward increase, it brings new light to the case and it shows people still care, people still want answers, and people will put up money in order to get that. Maybe someone saw Ivory or heard where he was. Just because someone didn’t witness the actual crime doesn’t mean they don’t have information that could be valuable to the case. Someone murdered a member of our community in cold blood. Somebody has to know about it. People talk over time, 10 years is a long time. A lot of things change in people’s lives.”

Detective Crider agreed. “From my experience, people may hold onto this, as they mature, as they have kids, experience death in their families, things like this start to bother them a little bit more.”)

 

[Imvp2]

Somebody posted recently a video interview with Sheriff Leazenby in his office. He mentions information giving by family (he doesn't state exactly) led them to believe the girls may have gone somewhere without informing adults...all paraphrasing, not quoting. Maybe whomever posted it can again, I can't find it.

Neither had a history of running away. KG would have known from dropping them off, if they brought some type of supplies or additional items,should they have planned on going somewhere else. As well, KG had to give both the girls her hoodies or jackets at the time she dropped them off. So all they had was 1 phone between them. And a definite pick up time.
It makes no sense to me that anyone would have or could have considered them runaways.
MOO

 

[sunshineray]

Neither had a history of running away. KG would have known from dropping them off, if they brought some type of supplies or additional items,should they have planned on going somewhere else. As well, KG had to give both the girls her hoodies or jackets at the time she dropped them off. So all they had was 1 phone between them. And a definite pick up time.
It makes no sense to me that anyone would have or could have considered them runaways.
MOO

I agree with you, I was just saying what was said by the Sheriff when asked.

 

[tresir2012]

One of the things that haunts me most about this case.
Question, they didn't search with dogs on the evening of the 13th when they were reported missing? If not, I don't get why. Even if Delphi doesn't have their own K9 unit, I'm sure Lafayette would have helped out.
How often do kids go missing in Delphi that they thought this one time the girls could have been runaways? Why is it less important when kids are runaways? Why is the first thought always that they are runaways, so many cases are unsolved because of LE not taking it seriously from the get-go.

The next day they were awaiting search dogs from Illinois so I guess they didn't have the right type of dogs or maybe they were already being used for the Amber alert that day in Gary.

Re the rape kits, to me that is why his DNA is not in CODIS.

 

[tresir2012]

Deleted

 

[tresir2012]

Reposting. It was an interview taken by a local reporter from a nearby town, so it might have not made headlines.

Oh thanks Charlot. So question 2 around 2 minute mark is related to had they done it before.

 

[Justice101]

Still following.. updating page marker

 

[LovelyB]

Reposting. It was an interview taken by a local reporter from a nearby town, so it might have not made headlines.

Thanks for reposting, I had never seen that one. I found it helpful to hear his answers to those questions.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

As well, KG had to give both the girls her hoodies or jackets at the time she dropped them off.

How very important it must have been for the girls to go there, if necessary without jacket?! IMO (and: I have been a teenager myself ....)