Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #116

[TheVisual]

Since they are not ruling out 2 POI in this case, one scenario is a father, son team. The son being the lookout and the father being the predator. The younger one may not have realized what he was going to do also, just stayed with a truck or vehicle and told to wait. I don't think this older guy on the bridge lives there, or the other person. Maybe traveling through, but he is too distinctive to miss. His gate is also a bit awkward, he appears to lean to the left, as if his right hip is a problem. But at any rate, he had a weapon to control the girls, for sure, a hand gun would make sense, but he didn't use it for his kill. Just my thoughts.

JMO I look and look at the stills from BG on the bridge and the action video. BG looks conpletely disjointed for lack of a better word. Why didn't LE just give us the whole video of him walking so we could maybe clearly recognize him? Was it because there is more in the video that they don't want us to see? I still believe that Abby was somewhere in there. Any thoughts?

 

[JnRyan]

I'm not for releasing the weapon or cause of death. We had that in the Heidi Childs/David Metzler and it, a 30-30 rifle, is so common it is really useless. I'm curious, but I don't believe releasing the weapon will do any good. So far no one has reliably recognized that blue jacket and associated it with a certain person, so I don't think the weapon will help.

I would rather seem some clarity on the sketches. First one sketch, then a second sketch and focus on it, then, well, it could be in between the two and now LE says to focus on the second but don't disregard the first. I prefer some better history on the two sketches and then maybe a tighter reliable time line of the 13th. And what's the deal with the vehicle at the former CPS building?

 

[tresir2012]

A comment on here made me think, if the public could get one (and only one) clue that has been withheld.. what one detail would be the most important in releasing to get the public to help notwithstanding that it has been 3 years since this happened and memories are short??

My thought: Weapon used in the murders: such as strangulation with hands, strangulation with rope. … knife (size, type).... hatchet..... blunt force with a rock....no weapon at all since they were just tied up and they died of exposure.... etc.)

If the local people knew the murder weapon used (although that could compromise the prosecution of the case), would that help the case any more?

I think a crime reconstruction by LE would be good with timings and the vehicle and witnesses all on the trail, where they saw him, how it went down as much as they can give out not the exact manner or cause of death though.

 

[Cryptic]

I’m not sure how much releasing the weapon would help anyway, unless it was some unique caliber or samurai sword or something...I mean I guess then it could be worth the risk, perhaps a family member can identity that particular weapon, but if it’s a more generic weapon, knife or gun...

I'm curious, but I don't believe releasing the weapon will do any good. So far no one has reliably recognized that blue jacket and associated it with a certain person, so I don't think the weapon will help.

If combined with the right circumstances, I think more specific details about even a common fire arm could be beneficial. For example:

- Hey, I remember that bad news acquaintance “A” used to flash around a pimped out gun of that type in his home- then suddenly, it was “stolen”.
- Troubled person “P” has violent fantasies and once showed me his father’s gun collection. In it was that type of gun.
- Aggressive wanna’ be narco “N” had made threats in the past about “solving things” using say, a “’smith”.
- “C” has always been vaguely creepy- he used to keep a small pistol like that in his car.

We have to trust the FBI, ISP, etc knows more than we do. That’s what I keep telling myself.

I think this is the core concept. In the absence of specific reasons to the contrary, we need to trust the professionals.

 

[tresir2012]

As stated numerous times in previous threads, MVT is not an approved source at WS. IF MSM has not picked up on that interview and information from Sgt Riley, there must be a reason.

Stick to MSM so the thread doesn't go off the rails and possibly result in closure for major cleanup.

Sorry SB. I thought LE or MSM source was ok but reported to get it checked. So it has to be LE and MSM I guess? I will look to see if ISP have put it in their Twitter or other SM feed yet.

 

[PaulaDC]

Perhaps they have their reasons for excluding MSM! and keeping it local. I personally have never seen before LE obliging and giving one off interviews to Youtubers as in this case. No doubt they have their reasons and rational. Quite unique as far as I am concerned and if it gets the results required sobeit.

MingyMoo

I see the original posts about why they use small intenet news forums vs television was deleted. Along with that post went my response, I personally think LE can track those sites and watch/investigate viewers.

 

[PaulaDC]

JMO I look and look at the stills from BG on the bridge and the action video. BG looks conpletely disjointed for lack of a better word. Why didn't LE just give us the whole video of him walking so we could maybe clearly recognize him? Was it because there is more in the video that they don't want us to see? I still believe that Abby was somewhere in there. Any thoughts?

Is it a video or two still shots looping?

 

[Cryptic]

I'm not for releasing the weapon or cause of death. We had that in the Heidi Childs/David Metzler and it, a 30-30 rifle, is so common it is really useless.

I am not sure how common 30-30 rifles are.

For example, 30-30 is a hunting round. In my state, the number of youth hunters has been declining steadily- even in the rural areas. Furthermore, it is commonly used in a lever action "cowboy gun" rifle which are fairly distinct.

As most younger people interested in shooting don't hunt and favor sexed up AR-15s, such a cartridge in my state could point towards a middle aged or older person who hunts (or somebody from a hunting family).

Additionally a lot of local gun stores may not carry the cartridge due to our urban location and declining interest in hunting. Of course, the big box stores and select gun stores will have it, but my guess is that it is relatively hard to obtain in my city.

If the year of manufacture on the cartridges is recent, an inquiry to local gun stores if anybody came in wanting to buy the cartridges not carried by the store (long term hunters, but not impulse buyers would already know where to go)

Likewise, inquire if anybody purchasing the cartridges stood out (only needed the cartridges and did not browse hunting gear, bought cartridges- but knew little about hunting rounds, seemed to be a video gamer, not a hunter etc.).

Of course, all of the above are long shots, but in the end, one just never knows.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

JMO I look and look at the stills from BG on the bridge and the action video. BG looks conpletely disjointed for lack of a better word. Why didn't LE just give us the whole video of him walking so we could maybe clearly recognize him? Was it because there is more in the video that they don't want us to see? I still believe that Abby was somewhere in there. Any thoughts?

I, too, believe Abby was in the video. MOO

 

[almagata]

Paul Holes posted on Twitter today about the Delphi case.

 

[Tiger Stripes]

I, too, believe Abby was in the video. MOO

Ditto. (Somewhere -- even here on WS -- there was a quotation by someone in Delphi about the content [were they referring to the audio content only, I wonder? Not sure...] being "the stuff of...nightmares". This is just "me", of course, but I would rather not hear/know what additional audio/video that LE obtained from Libby's phone. My imagination is just fine, thank you very much... )

It would certainly appear that LE is busy "nailing down" details (to make for an air-tight case) before proceeding. (After all, none of us want the killer to just be let off the hook; we want him to be prosecuted to the "full extent of the law". If LE reveals every detail of evidence that they have obtained, then... Why bother?)

 

[somequestions]

Here is an interesting article

Open Cases: Why One-Third Of Murders In America Go Unresolved


“Homicide detectives say the public doesn't realize that clearing murders has become harder in recent decades. Vernon Geberth, a retired, self-described NYPD "murder cop" who wrote the definitive manual on solving homicides, says standards for charging someone are higher now — too high, in his opinion. He thinks prosecutors nowadays demand that police deliver "open-and-shut cases" that will lead to quick plea bargains.

He says new tools such as DNA analysis have helped, but that's been offset by worsening relationships between police and the public.

"If there is a distrust of the police themselves and the system, all of these scientific advances are not going to help us," he says.

Since at least the 1980s, police have complained about a growing "no snitch" culture, especially in minority communities. They say the reluctance of potential witnesses makes it hard to identify suspects.”

There is a link in the middle allowing you to compare communities as to their crime clearance rate.

The sad truth is that many detectives are not Columbo. I read an article that said that at one time new police cadets in the LAPD were actually required to watch episodes of Columbo. I do not know how true that is, but I thought it was interesting. When I watch Columbo, I am not impressed by the T.V. detective's intelligence. It is Columbo's work ethic that impresses me.

So I think the perception of LE where you live is important too. It seems like in Delphi, Indiana people have a good perception of LE. If LE is on the right track, then hopefully this case will get solved sooner rather than later.

 

[stattlich1]

It would certainly appear that LE is busy "nailing down" details (to make for an air-tight case) before proceeding.

This.

These men and women involved in the investigation of this case aren't going to simply give up and walk away from it.

I strongly believe the focus should be on NBG. He, and that car, appear to be the focus of LE.

NBG spent over 2 years thinking he was off the hook, because the focus of the entire investigation was on OBG. I think NBG is the guy on the bridge. OBG is a player, but not the guy in the video walking on the bridge.

I think LE knows NBG, and knows him to be responsible for the murders....

"The result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch, which you will see shortly, IS the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls. We also believe this person is from Delphi- currently, or has previously lived here, visits Delphi on a regular basis, or works here. We believe this person is currently between the age range of 18 and 40, but might appear younger than his true age. Directly to the Killer, who may be in this room: We believe you were hiding in plain sight. For more than 2 years, you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy. But we have."

"Riley also said Wednesday that the original sketch – released in the summer of 2017, showing a man with a goatee and a driving cap – is “not presently a person of interest in this investigation.”

According to an ISP release, the new sketch of the clean-shaven man “is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cell phone as he was walking on the high bridge.”

 

[No it's not]

JMO I look and look at the stills from BG on the bridge and the action video. BG looks conpletely disjointed for lack of a better word. Why didn't LE just give us the whole video of him walking so we could maybe clearly recognize him? Was it because there is more in the video that they don't want us to see? I still believe that Abby was somewhere in there. Any thoughts?

If you were to watch the original video, you would most likely only see a vague figure in the back walking over the bridge. BG is heavily zoomed-in IMO. I would not be surprised to learn, that Abby is on the left and Libby is in the foreground facing the cellphone camera in the original..i.e. Libby taking the video with the the cellphone held up facing backwards over her shoulder.

ALL IMO

-Nin

 

[Falling Down]

Thinking about coulda-shoulda-wouldas for LE myself, it's clear the offender has victimized everyone involved in this horrible event. The media aftermath reminds me of the reaction to Jack the Ripper's murders: frantic side-by-sides, conspiracies, false letters from the killer.

Let today be the day this loser is finally arrested.

I'm of the opinion that LE should stop any and all "interviews", it's gotten out of hand. Things are going the way of sensational in this case, and my hunch is BG was counting on that, he gets off on the attention given to his crimes.

I agree about the victimization, he murdered two juveniles, and the aftermath victimized the community and way beyond where the crimes happened.

JMO

 

[Ozoner]

A comment on here made me think, if the public could get one (and only one) clue that has been withheld.. what one detail would be the most important in releasing to get the public to help notwithstanding that it has been 3 years since this happened and memories are short??

My thought: Weapon used in the murders: such as strangulation with hands, strangulation with rope. … knife (size, type).... hatchet..... blunt force with a rock....no weapon at all since they were just tied up and they died of exposure.... etc.)

If the local people knew the murder weapon used (although that could compromise the prosecution of the case), would that help the case any more?

I don't think it's necessary to know the particular weapon used.
I would like to know some things about the crime scene: whether the bodies were posed, whether the girls were clothed, whether there was overkill, etc. Knowing things like that would help us develop a profile of the killer.

 

[somequestions]

The one thing I think based on Liberty German's video/audio recording is that whoever murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German, it was not someone they knew. Family, friends, teachers, would all be eliminated immediately after listening to the recording. This is why I think her video/audio recording is so important.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the scenario is Liberty German starts videotaping this man and then at some point when he gets closer, she puts the phone in her pocket. The audio recording keeps going.

If she had the foresight to film the man on the bridge, and then this man approaches them and forces them to a secluded area, don't you think that at some point on the recording she would have at least said the man's first name?

 

[Fizzle]

The one thing I think based on Liberty German's video/audio recording is that whoever murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German, it was not someone they knew. Family, friends, teachers, would all be eliminated immediately after listening to the recording. This is why I think her video/audio recording is so important.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the scenario is Liberty German starts videotaping this man and then at some point when he gets closer, she puts the phone in her pocket. The audio recording keeps going.

If she had the foresight to film the man on the bridge, and then this man approaches them and forces them to a secluded area, don't you think that at some point on the recording she would have at least said the man's first name?

All we know is that there was video & audio of BG on the phone. We don’t know whether it was intentional, how much audio or video there is, or whether she hid the phone (it could have been dropped, taken, or thrown).

 

[sunshineray]

Ditto. (Somewhere -- even here on WS -- there was a quotation by someone in Delphi about the content [were they referring to the audio content only, I wonder? Not sure...] being "the stuff of...nightmares". This is just "me", of course, but I would rather not hear/know what additional audio/video that LE obtained from Libby's phone. My imagination is just fine, thank you very much... )

It would certainly appear that LE is busy "nailing down" details (to make for an air-tight case) before proceeding. (After all, none of us want the killer to just be let off the hook; we want him to be prosecuted to the "full extent of the law". If LE reveals every detail of evidence that they have obtained, then... Why bother?)

I understand your feelings of not wanting to hear the horror that may be on the recorded audio. I still think if they could isolate a few more words, maybe an escalation of the volume of the killer's voice, it could help in identifying him. JMO

 

[sleuther0192837465]

The one thing I think based on Liberty German's video/audio recording is that whoever murdered Abigail Williams and Liberty German, it was not someone they knew. Family, friends, teachers, would all be eliminated immediately after listening to the recording. This is why I think her video/audio recording is so important.

Correct me if I am wrong, but the scenario is Liberty German starts videotaping this man and then at some point when he gets closer, she puts the phone in her pocket. The audio recording keeps going.

If she had the foresight to film the man on the bridge, and then this man approaches them and forces them to a secluded area, don't you think that at some point on the recording she would have at least said the man's first name?

I felt that way forever, but now I just don’t know. What if it was someone they did know in passing (janitor, softball coach from a different school district, something along those lines) but they did not know his name? The other possibility (someone mentioned BG could have had nylon stalking over his face) is that BG was disguised well enough the girls would not recognize him.
I believe that Libby’s cell phone stopped recording (it was also mentioned that DG had tried calling Libby & that may have forced the recording to stop), before they realized who BG was. Therefore, no name would be on that recording.
MOO