IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #2

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Medstudies said:
And what’s really frustrating is the original (2) threads with all the news stories in July- (before journo scrubbing ) - were deleted. <big sigh>

One particular thing that stood out: “a crew member was shown on video mimicking SA holding the child out the window”

of course I can’t back this up because the threads were deleted and the news articles either disappeared or were scrubbed...
Click to expand...

There was also an animated discussion of the incident on Cruise Critic that included passengers who were on the ship at the time of Chloe's tragic fall. I was glad to have read it before the thread was closed and removed from the site. Seasoned cruisers echoed many of the same sentiments that we did ;)
 
About the window and rail - to lift Chloe up, it's at chest level for the adult holding a child. If you put a child on that rail, which is round (I think) and not very wide around, you would be holding on the whole time so what happened????? Knowing that toddlers move around, all the more so.
 
sl222 said:
About the Cruise Critic thread, the RCL has shut threads down but it has been ongoing in another location on the site:
Family's statement on toddler's cruise death
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing this! I'll read the entire thread :D

ETA: I think this is the same thread that was either closed or relocated from the original discussion on the RCCL boards. Maybe it was reinstated when SA was charged like it was here.
 
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Here's something new, which the family lawyer is now showing media pieces of the video, which this has new detail:
Winkleman showed PEOPLE two grainy video clips of the tragedy. In one, Anello is seen propping Chloe up on the railing on her feet, then on her bottom, before she disappears from view. In another, Anello is seen dropping to the floor after Chloe falls out the window.
Video of Girl Falling to Death From Cruise Ship Exonerates Grandfather, Says Family’s Lawyer
To me this doesn't exactly sound good for SA.
 
Medstudies said:
And what’s really frustrating is the original (2) threads with all the news stories in July- (before journo scrubbing ) - were deleted. <big sigh>

One particular thing that stood out: “a crew member was shown on video mimicking SA holding the child out the window”

of course I can’t back this up because the threads were deleted and the news articles either disappeared or were scrubbed...
Click to expand...
bolding mine

It will be interesting to hear what the witnesses have to say.
Apparently there ARE witnesses to the incident; contrary to what the lawyer says.
And the staff--- what did they see ?
Sounds like at least one of the employees saw this happen. How sad. :(
 
BetteDavisEyes said:
There was also an animated discussion of the incident on Cruise Critic that included passengers who were on the ship at the time of Chloe's tragic fall. I was glad to have read it before the thread was closed and removed from the site. Seasoned cruisers echoed many of the same sentiments that we did ;)
Click to expand...
Ita.
I wish the older threads could be re-uploaded.
Some good links were in the 'expunged' threads as well !
 
BetteDavisEyes said:
I'm curious about where other family members were at the time of the incident. The family group had likely only been on the ship for a few hours (IIRC, embarkation began at noon), so they probably hadn't seen much of the ship, let alone become acclimated to their surroundings. Why was Grandpa already looking after Chloe? Was SA asked to care for Chloe, or did he offer to look after her?

The CBS report suggests that Chloe was running towards the wall of windows and that Grandpa was following her. Chloe was probably pretty quick, while SA doesn't look like he can move very fast. How closely did he follow? What if Chloe had gotten so far away from Grandpa that he couldn't find her? Something wrong with these circumstances. In the replayed clip from the parents' Today Show interview, Chloe's mother makes a big deal about SA never, ever putting their children in danger. Methinks she protests too much!
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According to this early report, the family was in the dining area. So not too far away.

Puerto Rico Ports Authority spokesman Jose Carmona said the Wiegand family was gathered in or near a dining hall at the time of the incident, and that Mr Anello had sat Chloe on the edge of a window before she fell.
...
“Our early investigation revealed that these windows were not up to applicable safety codes designed precisely to protect children from falling out of windows,” Mr Winkleman told news.com.au.
Missing piece in toddler’s tragic fall
Also, a lawyer (not representing the family) who was quoted in the article made a longer statement elsewhere:
I explained to a newspaper that proving negligence won’t be an easy feat for the family: “In order for a cruise line to be legally liable for this child’s death, the family’s lawyer must prove that the cruise line acted unreasonably and that the cruise line knew or should have known of the specific danger on its ship . . . This will be an exceedingly difficult burden for the lawyer to meet in this very sad and tragic set of circumstances. Without evidence (prior incidents or proof that the cruise line knew of a dangerous condition on the cruise ship) the chances are slim that the court (if suit is filed) would permit this case to proceed to a jury trial.”
Cruise Law News | Walker & O'Neill Law Firm | Admiralty Law, Cruise Ship Accidents & Injuries

I haven't had any luck in my search for the actual codes/regulations concerning windows on cruise ships so it's unclear if Winkleman is correct that RCCL violated safety codes. But I'd be surprised if they did.
 
MsMarple said:
According to this early report, the family was in the dining area. So not too far away....
Click to expand...

So Grandpa and Chloe were the only members of the family group who didn't go to the dining area? Chloe's parents, one set of grandparents, SA's wife (Kim's mother), and the 10-year-old brother all went to eat together without Grandpa and Chloe? SA and Chloe weren't hungry? Why weren't they with the rest of the family group? Who's idea was it for Grandpa to watch Chloe while everyone else (if they were all eating together) was in the dining area? Maybe Grandpa wanted to smoke and couldn't do that in the dining area.
 
They walk over to a wall of windows, where Anello appears to look over the railing, through an open window. He picks Chloe up and stands her up on the railing — and they appear to lean over to peer out over the port.

He then sits Chloe on the railing and they lean over again before she disappears from the frame when she falls 115 feet to her death. Moments later, Anello drops to the floor.
https://nypost.com/2019/11/22/video...grandfather-thought-window-was-closed-lawyer/
 
I don't believe that Grandpa leaned forward over the railing and didn't realize that there was NO GLASS there! If there had been, his forehead or the top of his head would have hit the glass. The window was OPEN, and I feel certain that SA knew it was open.
 
they'll get you said:
They walk over to a wall of windows, where Anello appears to look over the railing, through an open window. He picks Chloe up and stands her up on the railing — and they appear to lean over to peer out over the port.

He then sits Chloe on the railing and they lean over again before she disappears from the frame when she falls 115 feet to her death. Moments later, Anello drops to the floor.
https://nypost.com/2019/11/22/video...grandfather-thought-window-was-closed-lawyer/
Click to expand...

I clicked the nypost link. Then the ABC link in the nypost article.
Those words came from ABC which along with NBC

WATCHED

the video. “Appears” protects the news media from libel. Or slander.
Point is, the article came after watching the video. There was more info but basically same stuff. Same fluff. Appears to look over and lean over tells the story. IMOO.
 
they'll get you said:
They walk over to a wall of windows, where Anello appears to look over the railing, through an open window. He picks Chloe up and stands her up on the railing — and they appear to lean over to peer out over the port.

He then sits Chloe on the railing and they lean over again before she disappears from the frame when she falls 115 feet to her death. Moments later, Anello drops to the floor.
https://nypost.com/2019/11/22/video...grandfather-thought-window-was-closed-lawyer/
Click to expand...
And he first "stood" her up on the railing. Just the thought of that makes me shudder.
 
they'll get you said:
They walk over to a wall of windows, where Anello appears to look over the railing, through an open window. He picks Chloe up and stands her up on the railing — and they appear to lean over to peer out over the port.

He then sits Chloe on the railing and they lean over again before she disappears from the frame when she falls 115 feet to her death. Moments later, Anello drops to the floor.
https://nypost.com/2019/11/22/video...grandfather-thought-window-was-closed-lawyer/
Click to expand...

After he sits her down, it would be great to known how or if he was holding onto to her.
Disappears from the what frame? Window frame? From view? From what angle was the scene taken?
What happened in the moments before SA drops to the floor? That time gap?

edited to add: watched CBS crew discuss tragedy, short interview with Winkleman then 4 crew members talking. Pretty obvious that one is for family and the other stops after saying SA could tell difference...
Hmm.
 
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