IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #2

[LietKynes]

Is the video edited ?
If he sat her on the railing, and if she fell-- I'd expect her to slip between the railing and the bottom window.
She still could've been injured from just that.
It seems like he must have sat her down on the window's ledge.
Horrifying.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

They walk over to a wall of windows, where Anello appears to look over the railing, through an open window. He picks Chloe up and stands her up on the railing — and they appear to lean over to peer out over the port.

He then sits Chloe on the railing and they lean over again before she disappears from the frame when she falls 115 feet to her death. Moments later, Anello drops to the floor.
https://nypost.com/2019/11/22/video...grandfather-thought-window-was-closed-lawyer/

So SA leaned over a total of 3 times yet supposedly didn't know the window was open despite standing right in front of it.

 

[al66pine]

To Future Cruisers. Photos & Measurements?
A few ppl here said they've booked upcoming cruises, one on Freedom/Seas, in next few months. One poster plans to take photos & measure. I'd like to see Pix on Deck 11.
Straight-on Views of "The Window" (or one of the operable windows, preferably open),
---------- w entire full adjoining (non-operable?) windows on left & right of it, in image.(About 10 ft away?)
--------- ^ same, w ruler/scale at bottom of window (horizontal) & ruler at side of window (vertical).
---------- ^ same, but photographer stepping away from window, ~ 20 ft. Repeat at 30 ft .
---------- ^ same, but photographer stepping away from window, ~ dividing line w H20 Zone?
Straight-on Views of "The Window" (or one of the operable windows, preferably open),
---------- ^ image also showing distance to floor.
---------- ^ same w ruler/scale in place vertically, showing distance from floor to bottom of window.
Views of Railing
---------- to show width (w & w'out ruler/scale};
---------- to show thickness (w & w'out ruler/scale).
Side Views (w, camera btwn window wall & railing, at railing height, maybe other heights too?)
---------- showing distance between window & railing.
-------- ^ same but w ruler/scale in place, btwn window-wall & railing.

I think we're all looking forward to seeing pictures, from Freedom of the Seas & sister cruiseships and from other cruiselines. I wonder if railing and window heights are widely different or if they are similar.
Thanks in advance to our cruising & sleuthing families.

 

[book-thinker]

Daily Mail showed a exclusive photo of Chloe's moments before she fell.
Who in there right mind would provide this last photo Chloe to the media.
Is someone being paid for the photo. It is of her looking out into water area.
This bothers me. It's heartbreaking.

The family's lawyer showing negligence on the cruise line.
Is the lawyer's game plan for the lawsuit. We have reporters viewing the video, in turn describing he last moment of little Chloe life to the public.

 

[MsMarple]

So SA leaned over a total of 3 times yet supposedly didn't know the window was open despite standing right in front of it.

Yeah, something is off IMO. One of the articles said the railing is 10 inches from the window. From looking at the picture if appears that there's about 3" between the wall and the window. If the 42" height of the railing is accurate then depending on SA's height if he leaned over he'd have been at most 6" from the window and maybe more like 4" or 5". HTH did he not realize the window was open?

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Isn't Winkelman flagrantly violating the court order by distributing video clips? It's one thing for a journalist to do something but it seems inappropriate for a member of the bar to be publicly flouting the confidentiality of the evidence. I'm not surprised that he'd see it or distribute it on the down low, but to do it publicly doesn't seem right.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Daily Mail showed a exclusive photo of Chloe's moments before she fell.
Who in there right mind would provide this last photo Chloe to the media.
Is someone being paid for the photo. It is of her looking out into water area.
This bothers me. It's heartbreaking.

The family's lawyer showing negligence on the cruise line.
Is the lawyer's game plan for the lawsuit. We have reporters viewing the video, in turn describing he last moment of little Chloe life to the public.

Can’t find picture. Only new one was her in middle of play area. Do you have a link?

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Daily Mail comment:
The child could've banged on the lower set of unopened windows if that's what she wanted to do. Grandpa lifted her to the open window, which appears to be the only open window in the pics taken after the incident. What a coincidence...
Never thought of it from this perspective.

Edited to add: DM. Comments.
Here’s another perspective:
A rail always represents a precaution, like stairs, a balcony or a wall of windows opened or closed. This rail was in place as a BARRIER between the windows and cruise guest.The fact that the window in question was nowhere within reach of the toddler,proves the window only became a danger when grandpa lifted her up and sat her on the rail. RIP Chloe

Another obvious fact.
I missed both of these in trying to reason out what happened. Occam’s Razor?

 

[al66pine]

G'father & Chloe were Separated from Rest of Family. Why?

So Grandpa and Chloe were the only members of the family group who didn't go to the dining area? Chloe's parents, one set of grandparents, SA's wife (Kim's mother), and the 10-year-old brother all went to eat together without Grandpa and Chloe? SA and Chloe weren't hungry? Why weren't they with the rest of the family group? Who's idea was it for Grandpa to watch Chloe while everyone else (if they were all eating together) was in the dining area? Maybe Grandpa wanted to smoke and couldn't do that in the dining area.

@BetteDavisEyes bbm Good questions. Good possible answers.
Not hungry?
Or G'father wanted a ciggy?

I wonder --- possibly Chloe was fussy? Maybe family planned to get seated, then order for her & G'father, have them join at the table after she settled down?

@BetteDavisEyes -- On RCL, do passengers commit to any certain dining rooms, restaurants? Do they do that as part of booking, pre-cruise? Or commit to 'seatings' like waaaay back when?
Or is it - 'free range'? Eat anywhere, whatever is open? TiA.

Thanks to you and our other veteran cruisers.

 

[book-thinker]

Can’t find picture. Only new one was her in middle of play area. Do you have a link?

Not great getting links to ws. Last time I mucked everything up. I need help doing this.

 

[akazia1978]

I'm almost 50 and I win marathon swimming events. He's an idiot IMO. In no way would I do that to my child...I had huge fears even walking along the Royal Gorge Bridge.

 

[book-thinker]

Daily mail
EXCLUSIVE: Haunting final photo shows toddler moments before she fell from her grandfather's arms to her death from a Royal Caribbean cruise ship, as video shows him and her mother dropping to their knees in shock
By BEN ASHFORD FOR DAILYMAIL.COM

PUBLISHED: 16:42 EST, 22 November 2019 | UPDATED: 17:03 EST, 22 November 2019

 

[Stinalyn]

Welcome to Websleuths, @Stinalyn !!!

That's interesting.
Wonder if both the parent's and SA's lawyers have watched part or all of the video ?

Hi @LietKynes ... & thank you!
I am not sure who has seen the video but I'd like to know that as well.
I do know that MW is trying to claim that this video "proves" that SA didn't know the window was open and didn't act negligently.
I thought it was interesting that the reporter says that the first part of the video shows Chloe walking across a big expanse of floor by herself... and then the grandfather followed. Idk, if it was my 18- month old, I think I would keep them closer to me in that situation, it was only the first day in the ship, unfamiliar environment, etc.
However it reminded me of another pic I had seen of SA and Chloe which shows him focusing a lot of attention on a dog and Chloe just kind of standing behind him alone. He's not even looking at her.
To be fair, a photo doesn't tell the whole story and I have no idea what was really going on or if she was also being watched by someone else at the time. This is just me speculating but something about this pic always rubbed me the wrong way. MOO

So Grandpa and Chloe were the only members of the family group who didn't go to the dining area? Chloe's parents, one set of grandparents, SA's wife (Kim's mother), and the 10-year-old brother all went to eat together without Grandpa and Chloe? SA and Chloe weren't hungry? Why weren't they with the rest of the family group? Who's idea was it for Grandpa to watch Chloe while everyone else (if they were all eating together) was in the dining area? Maybe Grandpa wanted to smoke and couldn't do that in the dining area.

So Grandpa and Chloe were the only members of the family group who didn't go to the dining area? Chloe's parents, one set of grandparents, SA's wife (Kim's mother), and the 10-year-old brother all went to eat together without Grandpa and Chloe? SA and Chloe weren't hungry? Why weren't they with the rest of the family group? Who's idea was it for Grandpa to watch Chloe while everyone else (if they were all eating together) was in the dining area? Maybe Grandpa wanted to smoke and couldn't do that in the dining area.

Yes... that's exactly what I was thinking. I was on another thread, which is gone now, it was on one of the cruise discussion sites, and someone who had been on the same ship says that where Chloe fell is right in the smoking section.

 

[al66pine]

Violating Court Order re Evidence?

Isn't Winkelman flagrantly violating the court order by distributing video clips? It's one thing for a journalist to do something but it seems inappropriate for a member of the bar to be publicly flouting the confidentiality of the evidence. I'm not surprised that he'd see it or distribute it on the down low, but to do it publicly doesn't seem right.

@SpanishInquisition re ^bbm ^
Did court issue an order re distribution or public release of evidence or maintaining "confidentiality of the evidence"? Or is there a standing ct rule in PR? If so, link pls? Or anyone? TiA.

I most certainly could have missed; if so, apologizing in adv.

 

[akazia1978]

Seals it for me...was he drunk? Who in their right mind would life a toddler up and seat them on a railing next to a clearly open window. No one.

 

[LietKynes]

When my children were small... every time we ate, both myself and my DH fed them before or at the same time.
Just common sense .
Toddlers and small children can't eat as much and need regular, small meals.
And snacks !

Maybe she'd eaten earlier ?
Does seem a bit odd.

And if G-pa wanted to have a smoke in the smoking/lounge area-- why take a toddler with you ?
They shouldn't be breathing that in their little lungs.

 

[Stinalyn]

Seals it for me...was he drunk? Who in their right mind would life a toddler up and seat them on a railing next to a clearly open window. No one.

I still keep coming back to that question also... if there was alcohol involved, or if he was drunk. He did refuse the breathalyzer from what I understand.
There's just something about this situation that doesn't sit right with me, obviously we aren't being told the whole story.
If I had to guess, just my own opinion, I would guess he probably had a few cocktails, was playing a "game" (shudder) with Chloe and tragically lost his grip. Again, speculation on my part. But I just have a gut feeling alcohol may have been involved.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

...@BetteDavisEyes -- On RCL, do passengers commit to any certain dining rooms, restaurants? Do they do that as part of booking, pre-cruise? Or commit to 'seatings' like waaaay back when?
Or is it - 'free range'? Eat anywhere, whatever is open? TiA.

Thanks to you and our other veteran cruisers.

IIRC, the incident took place in late afternoon on embarkation day. More than likely, it was not yet dinner time, and most passengers would have gravitated toward the buffet for light meals or snacks.

Dining options have changed a lot since DH and I started cruising in the mid-80s. All dining was fixed seating: You went to breakfast, lunch, and dinner at the same time every day, sat at the same table with the same passengers, and had the same waitstaff. Shipboard dining is much different now. You can still book "traditional" fixed-seating dining, but it is generally only for dinner. Breakfast and lunch in main dining venues are generally "open seating" which means that you will be seated with other guests (or a table for your party) when you arrive at the dining room. There is now also "anytime" or "my time" dining which means you don't have a nightly table assignment but can dine when you like and with whom, with or without prior reservations.

Most ships now offer "up scale" dining in an assortment of restaurants: Steak, seafood, Italian, French dining venues are common on many ships for an upcharge over and above food cost that is included in your cruise booking. There might also be casual dining options that include pizza, burgers, tacos, etc. While buffets are no longer open 24/7 and don't have a spectacular "Midnight Buffet", the buffet remains a very popular dining venue for many passengers who like self-service and quicker meals for breakfast, lunch, or dinner. Most ships offer room service, as well.

DH and I haven't done "traditional" dining for years and prefer to wing it when it comes to onboard dining. We usually do a couple of specialty dinners (upcharge) each cruise and also like casual options like a sit-down pizzeria. When we're in port, we generally have lunch or dinner off the ship so we can savor local cuisines. If we've had a busy day in port, we will order room service on the ship - something light like sandwiches. Bon Appetit!

 

[Kakidoll]

That article is very misleading. That play area is NOT just feet from the window she was out. There are and were tables around where she was, and the H20 is in the middle of the ship... not 'close' to windows. There is a walkway and tables and then windows. No smoking out there, and food stations not far away. USUALLY main dining is not open on boarding day that early... only for dinner. I'd bet they were grabbing from buffet or burgers etc. NO WAY to NOT know that window was open unless you are incapacitated. ESPECIALLY once you lean over once to put your head out. He lied and has been caught. End of story.

 

[MsMarple]

Daily mail
EXCLUSIVE: Haunting final photo shows toddler moments before she fell from her grandfather's arms to her death from a Royal Caribbean cruise ship, as video shows him and her mother dropping to their knees in shock
By BEN ASHFORD FOR DAILYMAIL.COM

PUBLISHED: 16:42 EST, 22 November 2019 | UPDATED: 17:03 EST, 22 November 2019

From the link:

Anello can be seen moments later lifting Chloe up to give her a better view before he places her on a metal railing, still holding her with two hands as the pair lean forward to get a better view.

Three to four seconds later she vanishes through what is the only visibly open window in the entire bank of glass.
...
Chloe's older brother is the next member of the family to arrive, and looks stunned and confused as he realizes what is happening.

Kimberly follows close behind, fighting through the crowd to gaze down from the window before recoiling in shock and collapsing in grief.

Moments later her police officer husband arrives and covers his face with his hands as he struggles to cope with what he's seeing.

The video ends with Anello being led away by two members of staff, seemingly unable to stand or walk by himself.
Haunting final photo shows toddler before she fell from grandfather's arms to her death | Daily Mail Online
According to the article it happened around 4:30 pm. So he had both hands on Chloe and yet she still fell. Ugh.