Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #117

[sunsetbeach]

The shed pic I recall seeing (at least a year or more ago) included no flowers. It was like an angled birds eye view of the roof of a solitary shed/small outbuilding/or cabin surrounded by treetops in the general vicinity of the crime scene.

In recent weeks a YouTuber (not GH) showed the small shed/deer blind looking building on his channel. People had been asking about it So he pulled up an older aerial photo and showed it. I’m trying to picture it in my mind and its in the woods near the creek if my memory is correct.

 

[JnRyan]

I agree that the clear indication from LE is that they are focusing on BG2 as the primary, but imo, in consideration of all the different quotes from LE on the subject which indicates this sketch is not totally off the table...

Maybe its just my imagination, but does anyone get the feeling that the various LE - 1st Sgt Holeman (lead investigator), Doug Carter (ISP Superintendent), Tobe Leazenby (Sheriff), FBI agents and ISP Sgt Riley (ISP spokesperson) - are not in agreement among themselves on these sketches? IOW, after much discussion, they finally come up with a compromise and decide to keep up a united front for the public. But somehow, in subsequent interviews, their personal views just seem to lead to different statements?

I kind of believe that I would have liked to hear the group discussions among LE that led to the release of these sketches. Then again, maybe not. Probably akin to seeing how they make sausage.

 

[tresir2012]

The shed pic I recall seeing (at least a year or more ago) included no flowers. It was like an angled birds eye view of the roof of a solitary shed/small outbuilding/or cabin surrounded by treetops in the general vicinity of the crime scene.

I'm wondering if it was a still taken from the helicopter video? That video is really useful as it often stops and zooms in on properties.

 

[tresir2012]

Maybe its just my imagination, but does anyone get the feeling that the various LE - 1st Sgt Holeman (lead investigator), Doug Carter (ISP Superintendent), Tobe Leazenby (Sheriff), FBI agents and ISP Sgt Riley (ISP spokesperson) - are not in agreement among themselves on these sketches? IOW, after much discussion, they finally come up with a compromise and decide to keep up a united front for the public. But somehow, in subsequent interviews, their personal views just seem to lead to different statements?

I kind of believe that I would liked to hear the group discussions among LE that led to the release of these sketches. Then again, maybe not. Probably akin to seeing how they make sausage.

I agree with you. And had a laugh at your sausage comparison.

 

[tresir2012]

Continuing images from above link, I figure it couldn’t hurt to bring these forward and have them marked for quick reference:



The abandoned railroad bridge over Deer Creek, that the two girls crossed


Shortly before their deaths, Libby posted two photographs on Snapchat, one showed Abby crossing an abandoned railroad bridge


The area where the girls bodies were found

https://www.thesun.co.uk/fabulous/10008017/snapchat-murder-mystery-teens-girls/

Useful images, especially for a tabloid.

 

[tresir2012]

First post here . I have been lurking since the beginning of the case .

I was visiting my daughter over the holiday and she was text snap chatting her cousins. I did not know this was a feature on Snapchat, as I do not use Snapchat. Apparently it disappears after one reads it the same as sending a snap chat picture disappears.

I have been reading this case on this site daily and have never seen this mentioned. So, I thought I would throw this out there .

I think I just jumped off of someone’s post as a reply . If I did I apologize . I will try to get it right next time

IMO

Welcome to WS. So you are saying SC can be used to text but the messages don't save at all on the senders or recipients phones? That would be significant if they were texting someone to meet up. LE would not have any record presumably.

 

[FrostedGlass]

This is a Google Earth screen cap of the cabin. There are other ones of it floating around the net. One person posted a pic said to be taken from Cr 300.

I think this outbuilding is near the property line shared by the homeowner at the end of the private drive and the next neighbor bordering the creek to the east.

The yellow arrow points at it.

 

[JDough]

First post here . I have been lurking since the beginning of the case .

I was visiting my daughter over the holiday and she was text snap chatting her cousins. I did not know this was a feature on Snapchat, as I do not use Snapchat. Apparently it disappears after one reads it the same as sending a snap chat picture disappears.

I have been reading this case on this site daily and have never seen this mentioned. So, I thought I would throw this out there .

I think I just jumped off of someone’s post as a reply . If I did I apologize . I will try to get it right next time

IMO

Welcome, Kalvis. We are so glad you are no longer lurking, and have joined the discussion with very useful information about SC!

 

[JDough]

Tell me it doesn’t mean that for two years, the ISP has been chasing the wrong guy.

Unfortunately, it does mean this. As a result of thousands and thousands of hours of extraordinary investigative efforts, LE is changing their strategy.

Well, yes indeed, my opinion is exactly this. They were chasing the wrong guy for 2 years, and now have been seeking New Sketch Guy since at least that 4/22 presser.

I've posted these things because LE specifically has asked for info about

1. New Sketch Guy
2. Car(s) at the abandoned and no longer in existance CPS building

This is exactly what was relayed at the PC. Great overview!

It means exactly that.
-
Think about this: there were likely people out there who thought that they recognized BG from the video but didn't call in the tip because the person they had in mind looked nothing like the sketch.
-
Little did those people know that the sketch that LE had been spreading far and wide for two years was of the wrong person.
-
Many of those people have likely since stopped following the case--some of them may have died--and will probably never see the NBG sketch.

BBM. I sincerely hope that some of the 3,000 + tips reported within the first couple of days are these people. That the information released at the PC renewed their interest in the case.

We can glean the following (sketch and vehicle) information from the April 2019 PC:

Information is being released today is the result of literally thousands and thousands of hours of extraordinary investigative efforts by Delphi, Carroll County, The FBI, The Indiana State Police and countless other agencies. [...]
After you hear what we’re going to release today I’m going to ask for your continued support, your continued understanding, your empathy and compassion as we move forward to find out who did this….and we will. [...]
Please keep in mind . The person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls. This is NOT two different people speaking- please listen to it very, very carefully. [...]
During the course of this investigation we have concluded the first sketch released will become secondary, as of today. The result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch, which you will see shortly, IS the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls. [...]
We’re seeking the public’s help to identify the driver of a vehicle that was parked at the old CPS/DCS welfare building in the city of Delphi... [...]
[Speaking] Directly to the Killer, who may be in this room: We believe you were hiding in plain sight. For more than 2 years, you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy. But we have.

DELPHI PRESS CONFERENCE TRANSCRIPT (2019) - CrimeLights

 

[k-mac]

If you read the transcript of the 4/22 presser, Carter says "During the course of this investigation we have concluded the first sketch released will become secondary"

Also this.....

On Wednesday, police emphasized that a new sketch of a suspect’s face is not supposed to be a different take on a composite sketch of a heavier, older-looking man. They are, according to Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley, not the same person.
Riley also said Wednesday that the original sketch – released in the summer of 2017, showing a man with a goatee and a driving cap – is “not presently a person of interest in this investigation.
Delphi murders: New suspect sketch not same man as in old sketch, ISP clarifies

but carter said he could be a blend of the two sketches

moo

 

[almagata]

Was Cheyenne ever recorded in an interview about her activities on the trail that day? I've always wondered what she and her friend were doing out there and where they walked and her timeline that day.

Since the killer statistically is most likely in his twenties (by crime data) she is the person on the trails that day that that is in that same twenty something age group. If the killer is local, she is more likely to have encountered him in her peer age group circle than FSG or the friends of Libby.

 

[stattlich1]

There is excellent early data available here (2/27/17 presser)....Imgur

"that was a chance encounter? That's possible. Don't think it's likely, but it's possible"
"no indication right now that this is part of a serial murderer"
"there is a likeliness or possibility of more than one person"
"this is the person that at least participated in the murders"

 

[popoludnie]

But since different posts hint at possibly someone from religious circles, I assume he is not cleared yet.

His gait and manners, chronic polyneuropathies , neuropathic gait and Guillan-Barre have been discussed here.

I feel like he's way too tall and thin to be BG.

 

[taximama24]

Welcome to WS. So you are saying SC can be used to text but the messages don't save at all on the senders or recipients phones? That would be significant if they were texting someone to meet up. LE would not have any record presumably.

Not exactly - the message does disappear like a picture but unlike in a picture message, in a "chat message" either user has the added option to "save" the message by simply tapping on it. Either way, disappear or saved, that persons user name would still have shown up as someone Libby had recently been communicating with.

 

[margarita25]

This is a Google Earth screen cap of the cabin. There are other ones of it floating around the net. One person posted a pic said to be taken from Cr 300.

I think this outbuilding is near the property line shared by the homeowner at the end of the private drive and the next neighbor bordering the creek to the east.

The yellow arrow points at it.
View attachment 218279

Oh wow...that’s a different image than the one I recall @skibaboo finding and circling...I wonder if this is the same one she found but from a different angle, or not...arg it’s probably going to take forever to find that image...I’ll give it a shot...

ETA: Can we get the geo coordinates on the above image?

 

[cody22]

Not exactly - the message does disappear like a picture but unlike in a picture message, in a "chat message" either user has the added option to "save" the message by simply tapping on it. Either way, disappear or saved, that persons user name would still have shown up as someone Libby had recently been communicating with.

I wonder if that info is what led to one of the early Bicycle Bridge Road search warrants ? I remember whose place that was and all the photos including LE's interest in a small house/shed.....It has always bothered me that Libby's phone was "cleared out" near the time of her death.......moo

 

[distracted]

Early on they said 'participated.'
MOO 4/22/19 they said the man in the sketch, and on the bridge in the voice recording is the man responsible for the murders.

We were discussing the inconsistencies and the fact that words matter. There have been too many cooks in the kitchen involved in this case.

 

[distracted]

Maybe its just my imagination, but does anyone get the feeling that the various LE - 1st Sgt Holeman (lead investigator), Doug Carter (ISP Superintendent), Tobe Leazenby (Sheriff), FBI agents and ISP Sgt Riley (ISP spokesperson) - are not in agreement among themselves on these sketches? IOW, after much discussion, they finally come up with a compromise and decide to keep up a united front for the public. But somehow, in subsequent interviews, their personal views just seem to lead to different statements?

I kind of believe that I would have liked to hear the group discussions among LE that led to the release of these sketches. Then again, maybe not. Probably akin to seeing how they make sausage.

Yes. They really need one spokesperson, whether they personally agree or not.

 

[Lovingeveryday]

Totally random thought... are there any professions that not only require a thorough background check, but also DNA collection? I don’t know why, but I can’t shake the feeling that the perp is in a position of authority.

 

[margarita25]

@JnRyan

Also on my To Do List:

Quotes for reference:

Carter

Holeman

Riley

Leazenby

—-

I don’t know why, but I can’t shake the feeling that the perp is in a position of authority.

Or a “Wanna Be”...

Dishonorable discharge from the military maybe? Failed Police Academy?

(I know, same old, same old..)
—

O/T,
I saw on Forensic Files the case of killer James Massey. My ears perked up because it was a dual homicide by an “old rickety bridge” and creek...I believe the episode was called “Pure Evil”. It was SO bad I had to turn it off.

“Creating a "profile" of a serial killer is part science and part intuition. The science involves studying criminals who have committed similar crimes, to see what characteristics they have in common. In a search for the killer of two teenagers in Texas, a behavioral profile led to a possible suspect - and hard science proved the profile was correct. Originally aired as Season 6, Episode 19.

"Forensic Files" Pure Evil (TV Episode 2001) - IMDb
Jason Massey - Wikipedia

Jason Massey | Murderpedia, the encyclopedia of murderers

•kill kit supplies mentioned at above links

—

I just found an an old message from our Late Great @Foxfire....Maybe it’s a clue?

(CUCKOO - don’t kill me)

—-

From @Foxfire

“TY..M24..

If you missed it: Naked Truth 48 Hours SC Serial killer http://tiucing.cbsepisode.us/48Hourse7.html “

ETA: Well Darn. Link invalid. I’ll have to google. I wonder what case this is.


ETA2:

Ew! TK!! Wasn’t expecting that one, Foxy.

Excellent. I’ll go with that. He had an creepy Amazon list iirc. Kill supplies. AND he had multiple MOs. Well done.

Looking for reference on his Amazon list.

ETA3:

'Blacker than my soul': Alarming Amazon reviews linked to alleged S.C. killer

ETA4:
Cuckoo. Going to take a break again from this case for a while. Let me know if something breaks.