IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #3

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beatrixpotter said:
There are pictures out there of her falling from the cruise ship?!?
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No pictures taken by witnesses, as far as I know. But there are videos from surveillance cams on the ship. And so there are pictures available, to be taken from the footage.

I would hope that none of the employees would leak any of those horrid images though. :(
 
I think I finally figured out what everyone was saying yesterday.
I think 'non-cruisers' don't get it. We relate to our own experiences of feeling overwhelmed in trying to keep our kids safe.
We just think that grandpa is naive and just got distracted. And maybe our preconceived opinions about men in general (that they don't seem to be all that careful) come into play. Sorry if I'm wrong, grandpas.
TWO main things changed my mind:
1) Looking at the walk-through video helped me to understand cruises better. That one pic of the railing just doesn't do it.
2) And realizing this is not NORMAL behavior on a ship.
Most people don't have the problem of knowing that you shouldn't pick up your child at open windows on a cruise. So what was amiss here? (possibly alcohol)
 
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oviedo said:
Indiana toddler, allegedly dangled by grandfather, dies after plunging 150 feet from cruise ship: report

A toddler has died after plunging 150 feet from a cruise ship while being dangled out of a window by her granddad.

The 18-month-old girl slipped from his arms and fell from the 11th floor of Royal Caribbean's Freedom of the Seas ship.
...
“At one point, one of her grandparents... in an act of games, exposes the girl to the void and falls out of his hands."
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Headlines like this crush my soul. I can’t read this thread and think about how awful this is for Chloe’s family. I can’t imagine the grandfathers pain. I’m a grandma of three grandsons all under the age of 2. I don’t get how it happened. And I surely don’t get how other people can assume they know how it happened and bash the grandfather like he did it deliberately. I agree with the grandfather when he says nothing they do to him will be as bad as the guilt he feels. Isn’t that way more than enough? Sending him to jail is wrong and unjust imo. Why tear the rest of the family apart when they so desperately need each other at a time like this? Moo.
 
The people who say that there shouldn’t be windows open on cruise ships remind me of the people who were saying that Grand Canyon should be surrounded with child-proof railing (after the 4 year old little girl plunged to her death when her parents weren’t watching her)

Kids can be injured at Disney World if their parents aren’t watching them properly.

The world can’t be made childproof. Parents and caregivers must be responsible for their children. If they don’t want to be with them every minute they shouldn’t take them along on cruises and dangerous hikes.
 
Mauig’ma said:
Headlines like this crush my soul. I can’t read this thread and think about how awful this is for Chloe’s family. I can’t imagine the grandfathers pain. I’m a grandma of three grandsons all under the age of 2. I don’t get how it happened. And I surely don’t get how other people can assume they know how it happened and bash the grandfather like he did it deliberately. I agree with the grandfather when he says nothing they do to him will be as bad as the guilt he feels. Isn’t that way more than enough? Sending him to jail is wrong and unjust imo. Why tear the rest of the family apart when they so desperately need each other at a time like this? Moo.
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Because the family blamed the cruise line. Not the fault of the cruise line! The public sympathy was with the parents until they began with the ridiculous claims and denial of their own responsibility.
 
One article I read said SA thought the glass would support Chloe. I don't know if SA actually made that statement in the interview, but it made me think that's why he might have loosened his grip. He figured Chloe would place one hand on the glass for support so he wouldn't have to hold her so tight around the waist when they went forward.
I watched a CBS reporter describe what was on the video, and he put two arms up when describing how Chloe was being held before she disappeared, but SA said he was holding her around the waist with one arm, so I don't know which description is true.
 
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IceIce9 said:
The people who say that there shouldn’t be windows open on cruise ships remind me of the people who were saying that Grand Canyon should be surrounded with child-proof railing (after the 4 year old little girl plunged to her death when her parents weren’t watching her)

Kids can be injured at Disney World if their parents aren’t watching them properly.

The world can’t be made childproof. Parents and caregivers must be responsible for their children. If they don’t want to be with them every minute they shouldn’t take them along on cruises and dangerous hikes.
Click to expand...
I hear you, but I've had a kid jump off a sofa right beside me, and another time one put markers all up and down her arm sitting right beside me coloring. My son-in-law not pleased. I was distracted coloring. Lol
I feel like even if you're vigilant 24/7 you can still get 'down time'. That's why it can be overwhelming,
I now believe the gpa is amiss, though, because he didn't follow reasonable safety rules.
Now does he have ADHD, health issues, or alcohol issues (probably since he refused a breathalyzer)? Its said on MSM he's colorblind too. Hard to say.
I think everyone (99%) of people believe he didn't kill his granddaughter on purpose, though.
DOES IT GIVE HIM A PASS? The laws will decide.
 
Mauig’ma said:
Headlines like this crush my soul. I can’t read this thread and think about how awful this is for Chloe’s family. I can’t imagine the grandfathers pain. I’m a grandma of three grandsons all under the age of 2. I don’t get how it happened. And I surely don’t get how other people can assume they know how it happened and bash the grandfather like he did it deliberately. I agree with the grandfather when he says nothing they do to him will be as bad as the guilt he feels. Isn’t that way more than enough? Sending him to jail is wrong and unjust imo. Why tear the rest of the family apart when they so desperately need each other at a time like this? Moo.
Click to expand...

With this type of "logic" no one who was ever careless would go to prison....it is a slippery slope.

Does this mean that the woman who killed three children getting off a school bus, should not be charged with negligent homicide, because she didn't mean to kill children when she passed a stopped school bus with flashing lights?

Why shouldn't SA go to prison? Because he feels badly? I am sure that many people in prison feel remorse for their actions. By this logic, we shouldn't convict any one, because they are sorry for what happened.

SA deserves a sentence, based on a trial and jury of his peers. He obviously feels little to no actual remorse, because if he was truly repentant, he would plead guilty and ask for leniency, instead of placing the blame for Chloe's death on the cruise line, telling one story after another, as a way to justify reasons for why Chloe is dead.

Chloe is dead, because SA deliberately put Chloe in an unsafe situation. He should own that behavior, and be held accountable for his actions.
 
Aydrianna523 said:
I think I finally figured out what everyone was saying yesterday.
I think 'non-cruisers' don't get it. We relate to our own experiences of feeling overwhelmed in trying to keep our kids safe.
We just think that grandpa is naive and just got distracted. And maybe our preconceived opinions about men in general (that they don't seem to be all that careful) come into play. Sorry if I'm wrong, grandpas.
TWO main things changed my mind:
1) Looking at the walk-through video helped me to understand cruises better. That one pic of the railing just doesn't do it.
2) And realizing this is not NORMAL behavior on a ship.
Most people don't have the problem of knowing that you shouldn't pick up your child at open windows on a cruise. So what was amiss here? (possibly alcohol)
Click to expand...
Well done on your part taking the time to watch the video - and coming to an understanding of the cruise ship layout - thanks for sharing
IMO
 
jeena said:
One article I read said SA thought the glass would support Chloe. I don't know if SA actually made that statement in the interview, but it made me think that's why he might have loosened his grip. He figured Chloe would place one hand on the glass for support so he wouldn't have to hold her so tight around the waist when they went forward.
I watched a CBS reporter describe what was on the video, and he put two arms up when describing how Chloe was being held before she disappeared, but SA said he was holding her around the waist with one arm, so I don't know which description is true.
Click to expand...
Harrowing surveillance video captures 1-year-old's fatal fall off cruise ship
Snipped-bbm
In the video, which did not include audio, Chloe, wearing a white hat, her swim suit and swim shoes, runs across the pool area with her grandfather a few feet behind.

They walk over to the wall of windows where Anello appears to look over the railing, through the open window. Anello picks Chloe up and stands her up on the railing, and they appear to lean over together looking out over the port.

Then he re-adjusts and sits Chloe on the railing, still facing the port. They lean over again and she disappears from the frame.

Moments later, Anello drops to the ground. Winkleman said Anello repeatedly screamed that he thought the window was closed.
——-
Embedded in the article is the interpretation of the video - not the attorneys view IMO no audio so it’s the attorney saying he thought the window was closed but how could he ? He leaned over in the video twice! I see no other way to interpret this.

This also answers the question we had regarding what direction she was facing - (towards the port) JMO
 
oviedo said:
Harrowing surveillance video captures 1-year-old's fatal fall off cruise ship
Snipped-bbm
In the video, which did not include audio, Chloe, wearing a white hat, her swim suit and swim shoes, runs across the pool area with her grandfather a few feet behind.

They walk over to the wall of windows where Anello appears to look over the railing, through the open window. Anello picks Chloe up and stands her up on the railing, and they appear to lean over together looking out over the port.

Then he re-adjusts and sits Chloe on the railing, still facing the port. They lean over again and she disappears from the frame.

Moments later, Anello drops to the ground. Winkleman said Anello repeatedly screamed that he thought the window was closed.
——-
Embedded in the article is the interpretation of the video - not the attorneys view IMO no audio so it’s the attorney saying he thought the window was closed but how could he ? He leaned over in the video twice! I see no other way to interpret this.

This also answers the question we had regarding what direction she was facing - (towards the port) JMO
Click to expand...
I definitely agree with you, no way does SA's actions indicate he thought glass was there, but he still could have been thinking it was there and Chloe could lean on it. We don't know what his mental and physical state was which could have altered his awareness of the dangers in the new surroundings of the ship, especially to a child. The grandparents should have stayed home with Chloe and Wyatt and let the parents enjoy the cruise. Two sets of grandparents needed to go on the cruise? Maybe they were brought along as babysitters.
Another thing, how do parents know if a toddler is light headed or a little off balance from motion sickness on the ship?
I went on one Carnival cruise and that was it, I has motion sickness the entire cruise. A passenger vomited by the dining room and the stench never went away, never again.
 
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Mauig’ma said:
Headlines like this crush my soul. I can’t read this thread and think about how awful this is for Chloe’s family. I can’t imagine the grandfathers pain. I’m a grandma of three grandsons all under the age of 2. I don’t get how it happened. And I surely don’t get how other people can assume they know how it happened and bash the grandfather like he did it deliberately. I agree with the grandfather when he says nothing they do to him will be as bad as the guilt he feels. Isn’t that way more than enough? Sending him to jail is wrong and unjust imo. Why tear the rest of the family apart when they so desperately need each other at a time like this? Moo.
Click to expand...


Emotions run high in this type of case. But do you think you would feel the same if your cousin picked up one of your grandchildren and held them out of window a moving car to let the pretend they were a dog, only to drop them and they were killed? Would you just accept it and say, oh, just an accident. Cousin didn't mean any harm? Or would you want him to learn a lesson on responsibility and obviously have to LEARN that he was WRONG and should have never held her out that window? Could you forgive him?
 
mickey2942 said:
With this type of "logic" no one who was ever careless would go to prison....it is a slippery slope.

Does this mean that the woman who killed three children getting off a school bus, should not be charged with negligent homicide, because she didn't mean to kill children when she passed a stopped school bus with flashing lights?

Why shouldn't SA go to prison? Because he feels badly? I am sure that many people in prison feel remorse for their actions. By this logic, we shouldn't convict any one, because they are sorry for what happened.

SA deserves a sentence, based on a trial and jury of his peers. He obviously feels little to no actual remorse, because if he was truly repentant, he would plead guilty and ask for leniency, instead of placing the blame for Chloe's death on the cruise line, telling one story after another, as a way to justify reasons for why Chloe is dead.

Chloe is dead, because SA deliberately put Chloe in an unsafe situation. He should own that behavior, and be held accountable for his actions.
Click to expand...
A BUT
I agree, but in most situations there is 'a but'.
The law seems all over the place when sentencing offenders.
As far as I know the local guy here, who drove through a stop sign, killing two children plus an unborn baby, with the mom barely survived, got NO JAIL time.
His name is not even mentioned on their FB page either...maybe because he attempted suicide.
So yeah, enforcing the laws are all over the place.
 
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IceIce9 said:
Because the family blamed the cruise line. Not the fault of the cruise line! The public sympathy was with the parents until they began with the ridiculous claims and denial of their own responsibility.
Click to expand...
I agree. Some of us unknowledgable about cruises are in err.
 
jeena said:
I definitely agree with you, no way does SA's actions indicate he thought glass was there, but he still could have been thinking it was there and Chloe could lean on it. We don't know what his mental and physical state was which could have altered his awareness of the dangers in the new surroundings of the ship, especially to a child. The grandparents should have stayed home with Chloe and Wyatt and let the parents enjoy the cruise. Two sets of grandparents needed to go on the cruise? Maybe they were brought along as babysitters.
Another thing, how do parents know if a toddler is light headed or a little off balance from motion sickness on the ship?
I went on one Carnival cruise and that was it, I has motion sickness the entire cruise. A passenger vomited by the dining room and the stench never went away, never again.
Click to expand...
I think the kids should stay at home, too. My daughter wanted me to watch my gdaughter at an event at a big trampoline building during a party she gave.
But an ankle injury slowed me down. There were steps, railing, too. I literally freaked out and told her, "No, I cant do it! I cant keep up with her (the 2 year old)!
Her daddy took over. Whew! Grandparents need to say 'no' sometimes.
Hopefully, this gpa wasn't concealing the fact he couldn't keep up. Yes, it was foolish thing him lifting her, though.
There's so much goes into grandparenting.
 
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