IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #3

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yes, this is a story from very early on - it's her fault - I bet if she did squirm it was because he terrified her by holding her out the open window 11 stories up. OMG. As far as things in the past - I'm wondering if SA didn't play the "throw the baby up in the air" game - letting go and catching her? and maybe even someone did not like this game? JMO
Yeah, I never understood the throw-a-child-in-the-air game. Someone actually did drop their infant that way.
(Nor do I understand it when guys put their toddler up on their shoulders, etc).
 
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You guys I have seen parents sit kids on handrails in many places. The Zoo, a Condominium's balcony rail at different levels and even a cruise ship's railing (unbelievable but this guy is not the 1st, Ive been on several & there's always one idiot) and I've actually had a full-blown, blow-out arguement with my ex-husband for doing this on a condo balcony at the beach. Had he dropped her, he would've been devastated, duh. Always full of so much confidence in himself. He knew he wouldn't drop her on purpose but had so much confidence in himself he couldn't see any circumstance where an outside force caused him to drop her. Or he just lost balance, of course not, not him. Such blatant disregard for safety bc of his own self confidence.
Telling someone not to toss a kid in the air- they say "I would never hurt this baby"..well accidents happen and they ask "you dont trust me?" Those kind of people..is he one of those?
 
I can't argue any of that. Or maybe I can. :)
Dr Phil says grandparents are the safest babysitters. But I tend to agree they're not always physically fit. But even as a young adult I had to watch my kids WITH a broken leg. Long story there.
And I have seen young parents chase kids in stores and even that's tough for them. All this to say (and you know) it's not a piece of cake watching kids.
Add on: But I've come to realize this is out of the norm for someone to do...lifting a child up to a ship's window.
I agree that grandparents are usually safe if not the safest babysitters - I'm probably more wary of possible dangers with my grandkids than I was with their moms.

And in this case the moment of negligence, of doing something out of the norm, was SA putting Chloe on the railing IMO. Had he held her in his arms, behind the railing, I doubt that she would have fallen through the window. Mind you, I wouldn't even go that far with an open window but right now there's no evidence that he actually held Chloe outside of the window, only that he sat her on the railing. IMO if he did hang her outside then he'd be charged at the least with manslaughter or even second degree murder.

So I believe he's charged appropriately with negligent homicide. IOW he's charged with doing something really, really stupid. That resulted in Chloe's death. MOO.
 
...Clinically significant cataract? When did he last drive? Work on a computer? Clinically significant cataract at that age is generally caused by trauma, smoking, prolonged exposure to the sun. (Farmers, particular those in southern states) and rare for his age and occupation...

I had cataracts at age 48 that were likely caused by long-term use of cortico-steroidal inhalers for asthma. Twenty years ago, pharmaceutical warning for early cataract development was rare - less than 1% of patients using these inhaled cortico-steroids. Incidence of early cataracts related to the inhalers has significantly increased.

https://www.webmd.com/asthma/news/20030917/inhaled-steroids-cataract
 
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A couple of questions if anyone can answer:

Do we know who it was that released the video clips to CBS? Was it Winkleman or the defense attorney?

Wouldn’t the prosecution have to approve this?

My understanding is they released only parts of the video, not the entire thing, Thus preserving the evidence for trial. So does this mean the claims by the defense that the video supports GPs story are based only on partial video ? TIA
 
I disagree, I think it is clearly a barrier to prevent people from leaning out the open window. (And to grab onto, also.) They are not for sitting.
That's what I thought too but others have said that passengers are allowed to open the windows.
I thought the metal bar was meant to be prevent people from accessing the windows at all.

Imo
 
You guys I have seen parents sit kids on handrails in many places. The Zoo, a Condominium's balcony rail at different levels and even a cruise ship's railing (unbelievable but this guy is not the 1st, Ive been on several & there's always one idiot) and I've actually had a full-blown, blow-out arguement with my ex-husband for doing this on a condo balcony at the beach. Had he dropped her, he would've been devastated, duh. Always full of so much confidence in himself. He knew he wouldn't drop her on purpose but had so much confidence in himself he couldn't see any circumstance where an outside force caused him to drop her. Or he just lost balance, of course not, not him. Such blatant disregard for safety bc of his own self confidence.
Telling someone not to toss a kid in the air- they say "I would never hurt this baby"..well accidents happen and they ask "you dont trust me?" Those kind of people..is he one of those?
Well said. I've seen questionable behavior as well.
 
That's what I thought too but others have said that passengers are allowed to open the windows.
I thought the metal bar was meant to be prevent people from accessing the windows at all.

Imo
I have opened them myself. The only "bar" I have seen is the wooden handrail that is in front of the windows

images


We now have so many stories about what happened that day - he lifted her up to bang on the window, he is colorblind and didn't see that the window was open, she squirmed from his grasp, plus the reporters description of the video they were allowed to see -
from the reporter - up and over the railing - IMO that means she was held outside of the railing not on the railing itself - with one arm because his other arm was checking for the glass.

The video that CBS News saw, and I saw myself, appears to show you holding Chloe above the railing and over the railing ... I have to think a juror who watches that may think, 'That was reckless,'" Begnaud said.
Grandfather charged in girl's cruise ship death says colorblindness may have been a factor
 
A couple of questions if anyone can answer:

Do we know who it was that released the video clips to CBS? Was it Winkleman or the defense attorney?

Wouldn’t the prosecution have to approve this?

My understanding is they released only parts of the video, not the entire thing, Thus preserving the evidence for trial. So does this mean the claims by the defense that the video supports GPs story are based only on partial video ? TIA
@neesaki

Grandfather charged in girl's cruise ship death says colorblindness may have been a factor
The surveillance video shown to CBS News by attorney Michael Winkleman, who represents Chloe's family but not Anello in his criminal case, appeared to show that the time it took for Anello to pick Chloe up and hold her up to a window above the railing before she fell was about six seconds. But CBS News has since learned that video was not in real time. The incident actually lasted more than 30 seconds.

Winkleman said the video he showed CBS News was the same format he received from prosecutors.

"Any variation in time likely has to do with software issues," he said in a statement. "Most importantly, whether it was five, 10 or 30 seconds does nothing to change the fact that Sam reasonably believed that the window was closed."
 
I had cataracts at age 48 that were likely caused by long-term use of cortico-steroidal inhalers for asthma. Twenty years ago, pharmaceutical warning for early cataract development was rare - less than 1% of patients using these inhaled cortico-steroids. Incidence of early cataracts related to the inhalers has significantly increased.

https://www.webmd.com/asthma/news/20030917/inhaled-steroids-cataract
I'm not sure why my cataracts started a bit earlier than most.
There's a couple possibilities but nothing clear cut.
 
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He can squat.

1029-ctm-cruisedeathcharge-1960562-640x360.jpg

Sal-Anello-and-his-dranddaughter-Chloe.--1200x675.jpg
@they'll get you :). Thx for pix.
Pic #1 = squat; #2 = kneel/squat. Can he get up easily & quickly to grab a toddler? But based on window height pix, he could not have been squatting or kneeling, when she went thru window.


In pic #2, our little Elsa fan in a dress w hem draping on sidewalk?
A face plant in the making, on concrete yet. :eek:
Here maybe younger than 18 mo? She's a toddler.
Not Scarlett O'Hara who can lift front of long, floor-skimming skirt & avoid tripping on extra fabric.


Who puts toddler in dress like that, then lets toddler go outside? IDK. Well, maybe not G'pa's idea.
 
I'm very cautious around heights, never lean on balcony railings, because there have been instances when they gave way. I would feel the same way about leaning against a closed window in a high-rise, just inherently dangerous. We just celebrated Thanksgiving. If Chloe's family were roasting a turkey and Chloe wanted to lean against the oven glass and bang on it, would the family then sue the manufacturer when she was burned? Sam's actions were reckless.
 
A couple of questions if anyone can answer:

Do we know who it was that released the video clips to CBS? Was it Winkleman or the defense attorney?

Wouldn’t the prosecution have to approve this?

My understanding is they released only parts of the video, not the entire thing, Thus preserving the evidence for trial. So does this mean the claims by the defense that the video supports GPs story are based only on partial video ? TIA
This is JMOO but it's possible the "software issues" that Winkleman noted could simply be that the camera records in stop motion rather than 100% real time. IOW, the camera may take a picture every couple of seconds and when run in sequence you see what happened but the time is compressed. Which explains the time gap.

There's no way the prosecution would conceal anything that helps SA's defense so IMO it's the format of the camera and not any kind of editing or erasing a few seconds. Again, that would not help the prosecution and if it was found that they manipulated the video there'd be hell to pay - and probably another lawsuit by the parents. MOO.
 
You guys I have seen parents sit kids on handrails in many places. The Zoo, a Condominium's balcony rail at different levels and even a cruise ship's railing (unbelievable but this guy is not the 1st, Ive been on several & there's always one idiot) and I've actually had a full-blown, blow-out arguement with my ex-husband for doing this on a condo balcony at the beach. Had he dropped her, he would've been devastated, duh. Always full of so much confidence in himself. He knew he wouldn't drop her on purpose but had so much confidence in himself he couldn't see any circumstance where an outside force caused him to drop her. Or he just lost balance, of course not, not him. Such blatant disregard for safety bc of his own self confidence.
Telling someone not to toss a kid in the air- they say "I would never hurt this baby"..well accidents happen and they ask "you dont trust me?" Those kind of people..is he one of those?

I call people like that arrogant. And yes, I do think SA is arrogant, narcissistic and a dolt. They are so full of themselves. When you call them out on it, they say YOU have the problem. It is infuriating!
 
Bringing this over from previous thread. I'm still reading this. Interesting that so many people mention that Grandpa was holding the toddler outside the open window.

Freedom of the Seas Fatality?
I believe the first, early reports rather than what has been put by the attorney. I think she was held outside the window, it's on video, and the only explanation they can come up with is he thought there was glass - I guess the glass would magically appear outside the window then?
JMO
 
I believe the first, early reports rather than what has been put by the attorney. I think she was held outside the window, it's on video, and the only explanation they can come up with is he thought there was glass - I guess the glass would magically appear outside the window then?
JMO
He was holding help her up to an 'imaginary' window?!
This link seems to confirm he originally did say that, minus the imaginary part, of course.
Cruise ship toddler death video could help decide grandfather's fate
 
@they'll get you :). Thx for pix.
Pic #1 = squat; #2 = kneel/squat. Can he get up easily & quickly to grab a toddler? But based on window height pix, he could not have been squatting or kneeling, when she went thru window.

Speaking of squatting, it appears this is what Grandpa is doing in this photo, too. He's down on the floor beside some luggage. Maybe he's sitting on aother bag, but I think he's squatting and holding Chloe by her lower legs.
1125-en-cruisegrandfather-begnaud-1983966-640x360.jpg
 
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