ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #31

[squareandrabbet]

I've forgotten the details now but wasn't the journey from home to campground a bit iffy - took much longer than it should, change of vehicle, stopping for petrol and phone chargers, getting lost in a tiny town, making up interactions with locals etc etc. If anyone can clarify these points I'd appreciate it!

DeOrr's parents named as suspects in child's disappearance | East Idaho News

[Sheriff] Bowerman says the parents have told investigators conflicting stories “since the beginning.”

“Their timeline keeps changing, where they were at keeps changing, and movements and statements about DeOrr Jr. keep changing,” Bowerman tells EastIdahoNews.com.

Bowerman says portions of polygraph tests administered to Kunz and Mitchell have come back “less than truthful” – including questions about knowing what happened to DeOrr, why the child disappeared and where the toddler is located.

“Their statements don’t match, and it’s frustrating because we have absolutely no idea where DeOrr is,” Bowerman says. “There have been so many inconsistencies that it’s hard to tell the truth from everything they’ve said.”

Bowerman says polygraphs administered to Reinwand and Walton have been inconclusive, but those results were expected because of both men’s mental states.

Kunz investigator: Jessica Mitchell knows where DeOrr's body is | East Idaho News

[Philip Klein]: I want to announce for the first time we, law enforcement and the FBI have interviewed Vernal Kunz (DeOrr Sr.), the father of DeOrr, nine times. He’s been given nine interviews and none of the stories he has told has matched or even been verified.

That is very disturbing for us as investigators. He’s given us a story, and when we go out and try to prove up simple things on the timeline it falls apart quickly.

[Nate] Eaton: Can you give us examples of the inconsistencies?

Klein: We can’t even match simple things like filling up with gas at a diesel store in Leadore on the day of the event. He clearly says that the gentleman who was pumping the gas actually saw the child. We interviewed the guy who had supposedly seen the child and he comes back and says, ‘I don’t remember seeing a child.’

Simple things like a dog in the back of the pickup – there was no dog.

Little things that investigators look at as simple things Vernal has not been able to verify with us.

As for Jessica, she has given five interviews to law enforcement and none of the stories she’s given us matched. In fact, she changes her story depending upon what day it is and what day we talk with her.

That’s very disturbing to us. We can’t even verify basic information that Vernal tells us and neither of their stories match. It’s not even close, as a matter of fact.

Eyewitnesses that they have listed – from guys that distribute the beer to the clerk at the store to the person that pumped the gas to the basic timeline information – Vernal and Jessica tell us one story but then the witnesses say no, that never happened. Here’s what did happen.

So we take all of that and we come back to them with, ‘OK, tell us what really happened because all these witnesses you have given us, they don’t match.’

And so they tell us the story and again. We go out and we try to reverify with different witnesses. Then, in some cases, some [witnesses] say, ‘We don’t even know who these people are. Who are you talking about?’

Not only that, it comes down to simple things like they played with DeOrr at the store. We talked to the witnesses before and after who didn’t even see a child (in the store).

Most of the "benefit of the doubt" of the parents seems to come from individuals who want to say that everything is coming from the point of view and mouth of Philip Klein, thus he is a lying publicity-seeking self-aggrandizer. These people are partly using as their justification the fact that the FBI and other LE aren't saying anything about these aspects of the investigation. They think the lack of information from those sources, indicates that PK is telling a lie.

Whereas, I don't think their silence on the topic says a thing about whether or not FBI and LE disagree with PK on his findings, or wish he would shut up, or anything akin to it. I think the FBI and LE have said nothing on PK, because they have to answer to a hierarchy. PK is a private citizen not bound by any authorities; thus he can freely say these things. For all we know, FBI/LE are sitting silently cheering on PK in agreement.

 

[Kicksave1052]

I have been seeing a bunch of shows on this case lately and hadn't really followed the story before. What is the consensus (or everyone's thoughts) on what happened? I feel like something happened before the camping trip and that was all a set up for a cover story. Or they went there for nefarious reasons and got caught up in whatever they were doing and neglected the baby and an accident happened so they then went in cover up mode.

I watched the HLN special on this case and a few things stood out to me. The search for the child was thorough and extensive. No way a child that age would have been able to wander so far away and not be found...they had air, land grid searches and also horseback to get into the back country...no sign of the toddler. The fact that law enforcement made the judgment, after a length of time had passed, that this was now a homicide, is huge. Too many things make no sense at all...taking the GGP, who had advanced COPD and is on oxygen, on a camping trip in a high altitude area is just strange...pulling into the campsite at 10:00 at night with a toddler, in the cold, setting up camp in the dark...weird, weird, weird. Having the strange friend of GGP along for the trip...OMG! What a freak...would anyone in their right mind want a creep like this around their child? This "trip on the fly" makes zero sense. Let alone all the statements GGP made...he should have been given a lie detector exam. I cannot make an educated guess on what happened to this poor child but my gut tells me one of the parents was involved in his demise and the other parent was involved in covering it up.

 

[Quiet Time]

Were J and V familiar with this town they went to ..to camp. Had they been there before?
I'm asking cause I'm wondering if they knew of a place to dispose of the child, and that's why they went there.

I'm also wondering if they're on drugs, because their answers are all over the place, intentionally or not. jmo

Sorry if already discussed.

 

[Quiet Time]

Were J and V familiar with this town they went to ..to camp. Had they been there before?
I'm asking cause I'm wondering if they knew of a place to dispose of the child, and that's why they went there.

I'm also wondering if they're on drugs, because their answers are all over the place, intentionally or not. jmo

Sorry if already discussed.

 

[squareandrabbet]

I'm also wondering if they're on drugs, because their answers are all over the place, intentionally or not. jmo

Sorry if already discussed.

I don't know, but Sheriff Bowerman strongly implied that GGP and Isaac were on something (too impaired to judge their polygraphs accurately). I believe past scuttlebutt had this as whiskey brought upon the camping trip (can't remember source); but someone in the equation was also said to be in recovery. I think it's possible that the referenced impairment might have come from marijuana instead, considering GGP health issues; but I don't think we spent much time on the debate for fear of running into victim-blaming/accusing.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Were J and V familiar with this town they went to ..to camp. Had they been there before?
I'm asking cause I'm wondering if they knew of a place to dispose of the child, and that's why they went there.

I'm also wondering if they're on drugs, because their answers are all over the place, intentionally or not. jmo

Sorry if already discussed.

The story goes that it was Grandpa Bob who was familiar with the campsite, he was planning to go with Isaac but Jessica's mum, Trina, asked J&V to go along to keep an eye on things. I'm fairly sure Vernal had never been and I don't think Jessica had either, though her mum knew it from childhood holidays. Basically, Bob had been going there for decades.

 

[Quiet Time]

Gpa may have been familiar w/the area...but I don't believe for a minute that it was he that wanted to go camping there, at that time of the night, etc. jmo

Someone mentioned earlier that he had COPD, and he's going to camping ...pffft.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Gpa may have been familiar w/the area...but I don't believe for a minute that it was he that wanted to go camping there, at that time of the night, etc. jmo

Someone mentioned earlier that he had COPD, and he's going to camping ...pffft.

That was the official line given by the family. The trip was planned but because of his health issues Trina asked Jessica to go at the last minute - I think J was/is a health care worker. There were, apparently, delays in setting off because J&V made a late decision to go and a trailer had to be unhooked or something, then there were alleged multiple stops for buying things like petrol and phone chargers. A timeline of the journey and where they stopped would be useful.

 

[Catmommy]

You know, I'll bet that they passed plenty of big dumpsters that night on the way to their camping ground.

 

[Chewy]

Wasn't there a comment somewhere about how Isaac was the only one not to have changed his story? I think he was led to believe that Deorr was there but maybe never actually saw him - "he's sleeping in the camper" "he's on a walk with Mom" etc. Isaac had no reason to doubt them and is unknowingly included in the cover up.

I think this is a possibility as well. And interestingly many people noted that he stated the morning after DeOrr went missing that he had never had a better good night's sleep. It struck people as odd and made him look suspicious. But if the parents drugged him the day before. Slipped something into his drink and had him out of it for the day it would be easy to manipulate him into thinking he saw DeOrr even if he didn't. He'd have no reason to doubt them in the moment. Grandpa was on oxygen and out of it, probably drinking. So they did the same thing to him.

And it seems like they also tried to pull this on other witnesses in town but those people didn't fall for it. Think of going across town stopping in store after store and seeing strangers and trying to convince them to back them up "Don't you remember when we got gas?" "Oh yes I remember seeing you get gas" "Well our son was in the car, don't you remember seeing him? He was waving at you?"

That's what made Kline suspicious. When he found the people they had supposedly seen that day, none of them remembered seeing a child with them.

 

[katydid23]

I watched the HLN special on this case and a few things stood out to me. The search for the child was thorough and extensive. No way a child that age would have been able to wander so far away and not be found...they had air, land grid searches and also horseback to get into the back country...no sign of the toddler. The fact that law enforcement made the judgment, after a length of time had passed, that this was now a homicide, is huge. Too many things make no sense at all...taking the GGP, who had advanced COPD and is on oxygen, on a camping trip in a high altitude area is just strange...pulling into the campsite at 10:00 at night with a toddler, in the cold, setting up camp in the dark...weird, weird, weird. Having the strange friend of GGP along for the trip...OMG! What a freak...would anyone in their right mind want a creep like this around their child? This "trip on the fly" makes zero sense. Let alone all the statements GGP made...he should have been given a lie detector exam. I cannot make an educated guess on what happened to this poor child but my gut tells me one of the parents was involved in his demise and the other parent was involved in covering it up.

Yes, to all of the above....ADDING to the list...GGP was on oxygen, but they supposedly left him at the CAMPFIRE.......Who allows oxygen next to an open flame????

 

[margarita25]

Bump

 

[anniejanet]

What a weird one. If the parents had anything to do with it then the grandfather would have to know about it. Could three people really keep a secret that long?

 

[PezCandy]

What a weird one. If the parents had anything to do with it then the grandfather would have to know about it. Could three people really keep a secret that long?

Some people take their secrets to the grave. I hate feeling like the parents could have really done something as parents usually are the first suspects to be ruled out.. in this case I don’t think the parents have been ruled out as suspects (or have they??).
my other thing is that if little guy did accidentally die of misadventure due to not being watched etc and the parents called the authorities right away when it happened the parents could get charged with homicide due to negligence but could plead for a lesser charge, where as there hasn’t been a body found so the parents are in the clear... for now. Now if the body were to be recovered then I’m pretty sure they will be in even more trouble due to the fact that they were covering everything up and making false statements, their charges will be worse than what they could have been originally charged with. I agree with the posts above, this is a weird case. I really don’t know what to think other than someone is hiding something. I don’t know what to think of the parents except their conflicting stories and lies have been extremely confusing. Kind of Casey Anthony feel to it...
Has anyone found out anything new? I just see the old MSM articles that we’ve all seen a million times, nothing really new.

 

[TobyWong*]

I just want to know when he was last seen before this trip. I want to know who saw him the 24/48 hours before this trip. I feel like this child has just been erased. And it wasn't on this camping trip. IMO. And they should not get away w it! Imo

 

[renarde]

December 30th is DeOrr's seventh birthday.

 

[Niner]

I just want to know when he was last seen before this trip. I want to know who saw him the 24/48 hours before this trip. I feel like this child has just been erased. And it wasn't on this camping trip. IMO. And they should not get away w it! Imo

From what I recall - he was at a 4th of July BBQ at "some" relatives - don't recall "who's" though - and I'm not about to go looking thru 31 threads! Maybe someone from "back then" will remember this also.

 

[Dnp2be]

I am leaning More to the theory that an accident occurred and instead of doing the obvious (calling for help and being honest), someone panicked and tried to cover things up. But as most of us know, lying to cover lies proves to be difficult and creates an even bigger web when trying to keep a story straight. If they did try to cover something up, the parents were not thorough in their preparation regarding whatever story they are trying to sell LE. Such a sad case and IMO the case is unlikely to be solved unless someone breaks and tells the truth or someone comes across his remains. From the reports, it doesn’t seem likely he was kidnapped. There wasn’t Very many strangers around + per witnesses stories, he wasn’t left without supervision for long + too many discrepancies within their stories

 

[MimosaMornings]

Yes, to all of the above....ADDING to the list...GGP was on oxygen, but they supposedly left him at the CAMPFIRE.......Who allows oxygen next to an open flame????

And where were his oxygen tanks stored - he would need several for a weekend trip.

 

[neesaki]

I am leaning More to the theory that an accident occurred and instead of doing the obvious (calling for help and being honest), someone panicked and tried to cover things up. But as most of us know, lying to cover lies proves to be difficult and creates an even bigger web when trying to keep a story straight. If they did try to cover something up, the parents were not thorough in their preparation regarding whatever story they are trying to sell LE. Such a sad case and IMO the case is unlikely to be solved unless someone breaks and tells the truth or someone comes across his remains. From the reports, it doesn’t seem likely he was kidnapped. There wasn’t Very many strangers around + per witnesses stories, he wasn’t left without supervision for long + too many discrepancies within their stories

I’m more or less leaning that way also, but with the addition of either drugs or alcohol involved leading up to the incident.
Although I do have one other theory, that they drugged him to get him to sleep so they could stay up drinking or smoking and not be bothered by a crying toddler. . And he died.
Well, ok.... these are just a couple of my theories, I actually have more. But not tonight.