Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #2

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Thanks so much for this Thunderwombat !
After I finished looking for anything possibly Marion related, I looked up my Mother's french side and was surprised that my Aunt became French by marriage which is something I never knew.

Of course I knew she had married a Frenchman, the brother of my grandmother.
So could Marion have secretly married someone from Luxenbourg which might have made her Luxembourgian?

These are from the National Archives of Australia Session expired | RecordSearch | National Archives of Australia Each card give the date of birth so there is no confusing people with the same name. Unfortunately the publicly available records only go up until 1972, with 1971 mostly missing. Johnny made overseas trips about 10 times during that time but I could only find the one record for Marion Warren. In all of J W's cards he lists his occupation as public relations officer rather than a professional sportsman.
 
It looks like Marion wasn't travelling with Johnny on this occasion, can't find an incoming card for him, this was before marriage, 1966, wonder who she was travelling with, or maybe on her own for the 23 days, returned on 28 January 1966. Just curious, but it's looking like Marion had done quite a bit of travel, which is interesting.
 

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What is the likelihood that it was NOT Marion on the return flight, anyone have a theory in which this scenario works ?

If the dates are correct by my calculation if the phone call from Marion did take place in the UK then it was not her on the flight, but she was also alive at the time someone else was on the flight.

The delay ( I think 2 days) in Marion calling Sally back after leaving the message on her answer phone could be because she was in transit. If I called someone to check they had not been caught up in a natural disaster I probally wouldn’t wait another 2 days to call back. Especially if it was family.
KiwiNZ, I can come up with a wacky theory that has crossed my mind, probably nuts, but what if Marion travelled OS on the passport that was still valid as Marion Barter, it expires OS, two photos have been signed by the dentist, one of Marion, one of someone looking similar, or different, not sure, but new passport arrives while overseas and person filling in for Marion returns with passport. Hey, a little out there, but would that be possible? Not sure. Maybe? Of course the dentist would have to be in on it all ... probably a nutty idea.
 
No
KiwiNZ, I can come up with a wacky theory that has crossed my mind, probably nuts, but what if Marion travelled OS on the passport that was still valid as Marion Barter, it expires OS, two photos have been signed by the dentist, one of Marion, one of someone looking similar, or different, not sure, but new passport arrives while overseas and person filling in for Marion returns with passport. Hey, a little out there, but would that be possible? Not sure. Maybe? Of course the dentist would have to be in on it all ... probably a nutty idea.
Not a nutty idea, this case is so mind bending anything is possible.. You have given me something to think about, thanks
 
Thanks so much for this Thunderwombat !
After I finished looking for anything possibly Marion related, I looked up my Mother's french side and was surprised that my Aunt became French by marriage which is something I never knew.

Of course I knew she had married a Frenchman, the brother of my grandmother.
So could Marion have secretly married someone from Luxenbourg which might have made her Luxembourgian?
How interesting about your Aunt, Tootsie, what a great discovery you've made about your family's history. Yes, maybe Marion did secretly marry and become Luxembourgian, anything's possible really. Some of those Remakel names are hyphenated, wonder if you could travel/have passport on just one half of the name, like Remakel-Wilson or something - I've seen that a bit online at some of the sites. Might have a look tomorrow.
 
I got the following information from:

PO Boxes & Private Bags

It states the following with regard to post office box applications that are NOT done online:

Post Office applications
Proof of identity that shows your name, date of birth, residential address and signature (this can be your driver's licence or 2 other documents, such as a utility bill and bank statement).

This seems like a fair amount of identification. I am not sure how much more or less would have been required in 1997, but likely still needed a lot of it. Could police contact Auspost and enquire into applications as far back as 1997? If records were still held for this period, that could potentially mean they had more than enough information collected in order to identify who actually set it up in the first place.
 
I got the following information from:

PO Boxes & Private Bags

It states the following with regard to post office box applications that are NOT done online:

Post Office applications
Proof of identity that shows your name, date of birth, residential address and signature (this can be your driver's licence or 2 other documents, such as a utility bill and bank statement).

This seems like a fair amount of identification. I am not sure how much more or less would have been required in 1997, but likely still needed a lot of it. Could police contact Auspost and enquire into applications as far back as 1997? If records were still held for this period, that could potentially mean they had more than enough information collected in order to identify who actually set it up in the first place.

Yes, I spoke to the retired Australia Post historian, who stated that in 1997 all paperwork for PO Boxes were done locally in branch, no ID was required (this very popular with married men apparently !) These documents were usually kept in a filing cabinet behind the desk & renewals posted in the boxes.

Unfortunately the Lennox Head Post office burnt down in 1998, so in speaking to the sister of the deceased long term owner of the LH PO, no records remain. This was thought to be arson. Landmarks Of Lennox - The Post Office - Lennox Wave News Magazine
 
Today I'm thinking it's interesting that Marion chose to leave the country at a time when her old passport was about to expire .... could the timing of that have been planned way in advance to get that new name on it? As mentioned in some great previous posts here that it's peculiar that Marion was spending so much time in the Tunbridge Wells area .... a postcard was sent on 7 July from Tunbridge Wells .... then we have the phone call to Sally on 1 August from Tunbridge Wells where she's having a cup of tea ...... h'mm, I might be swinging back to Marion never returned to Australia, maybe someone in her place ..... oh boy, so many possibilities ............
Afterthought ... Do we know where the postcard that was postmarked 30 August 1997 was sent from? Was that also Tunbridge Wells?
Today I'm thinking it's interesting that Marion chose to leave the country at a time when her old passport was about to expire .... could the timing of that have been planned way in advance to get that new name on it? As mentioned in some great previous posts here that it's peculiar that Marion was spending so much time in the Tunbridge Wells area .... a postcard was sent on 7 July from Tunbridge Wells .... then we have the phone call to Sally on 1 August from Tunbridge Wells where she's having a cup of tea ...... h'mm, I might be swinging back to Marion never returned to Australia, maybe someone in her place ..... oh boy, so many possibilities ............
Afterthought ... Do we know where the postcard that was postmarked 30 August 1997 was sent from? Was that also Tunbridge Wells?
Sally has no proof of that last postcard. She's not sure why her Aunties would make it up but they can't assist her in showing it to her or telling her more about it.
 
Spontaneous random - Marion seems to have an unusual way of writing the figure 4 .... maybe worth looking at how that's written on the incoming passenger card and documents that could be fraudulent or in dispute. Just a thought ....
 
My today theory is that Marion was the victim of a scam, even if the advert is linked to this case I don’t think a scammer would use their real name, they take a long time to work on people ( I watch a lot of Dr Phil lol) so a 2-year gap between the ad and the event would not be uncommon.


I may change my mind tomorrow ….
 
If Marion was staying at a fixed address in the Tunbridge Wells area it would have been a perfect opportunity for her to let her family know where she was staying and say, "look, I'll be here for the next month, here's the address if you need to contact me, this is the phone number" .... but there was nothing, no indication whatsoever to anyone where she was staying, and yet she seems to just be hovering around the same vicinity the whole time, suggesting fixed lodgings holding all that luggage of hers. It's all so peculiar ......
 
Sally has no proof of that last postcard. She's not sure why her Aunties would make it up but they can't assist her in showing it to her or telling her more about it.
Thanks Kelliepat, that's interesting, I just assumed Sally had the postcard with the 30 August date on it ... h'mm, so it may not exist at all ... maybe a misunderstanding somewhere along the line, who knows ....
 
I was just thinking the other day about her belongings and luggage.
Where on earth did it end up.
If she was staying at a hotel or wherever, wouldn't someone notice that a guest didn't come back.
And just went and left their luggage behind.
It's like she's just disappeared off the face of the earth.
And then there's the rental car, did she return it and if not weren't questions asked.



If Marion was staying at a fixed address in the Tunbridge Wells area it would have been a perfect opportunity for her to let her family know where she was staying and say, "look, I'll be here for the next month, here's the address if you need to contact me, this is the phone number" .... but there was nothing, no indication whatsoever to anyone where she was staying, and yet she seems to just be hovering around the same vicinity the whole time, suggesting fixed lodgings holding all that luggage of hers. It's all so peculiar ......
 
If Marion was staying at a fixed address in the Tunbridge Wells area it would have been a perfect opportunity for her to let her family know where she was staying and say, "look, I'll be here for the next month, here's the address if you need to contact me, this is the phone number" .... but there was nothing, no indication whatsoever to anyone where she was staying, and yet she seems to just be hovering around the same vicinity the whole time, suggesting fixed lodgings holding all that luggage of hers. It's all so peculiar ......

Her in coming declaration to the UK should have her address she intended on staying at, pretty sure that is one of the questions.

Its all very odd, my parents travel a lot and always tell me where they are staying, its also a natural question to ask when enquiring about someone's trip, especially family.
 
Thanks Kelliepat, that's interesting, I just assumed Sally had the postcard with the 30 August date on it ... h'mm, so it may not exist at all ... maybe a misunderstanding somewhere along the line, who knows ....

I think Sally has put a few things down to her Grandad not been well and recording incorrect information, like the Salvation army information in regards to the car money.
 
Sally has no proof of that last postcard. She's not sure why her Aunties would make it up but they can't assist her in showing it to her or telling her more about it.
The podcast quoted Jack's notes to the Salvo's, rather than the aunties as the source of information about the last postcard.
 
I think Sally has put a few things down to her Grandad not been well and recording incorrect information, like the Salvation army information in regards to the car money.
You know, I can buy him recording somethings incorrectly, like the date on the postcard. Sally's last postcard was dated July 30, then there is all the activity in August- I get how he may have accidently written August in his notes instead of July. But the statements about Tell them to stop looking for me in Byron Bay I'm far far away and Tell Sally Im angry about the car are far more specific.
 
You know, I can buy him recording somethings incorrectly, like the date on the postcard. Sally's last postcard was dated July 30, then there is all the activity in August- I get how he may have accidently written August in his notes instead of July. But the statements about Tell them to stop looking for me in Byron Bay I'm far far away and Tell Sally Im angry about the car are far more specific.[/QUOTE

The reason I think she is correct is that statement about the car would have come from the police in their original contact with Marion via the banks contact with her, the Salvation Army did not speak to Marion they could only have got information from the police, the Salvation Army have no authority to contact the bank and they did not locate Marion herself so these comments could only have come from the police records and this would have been past to Sally via the police when they confirmed they had located her mother and she wanted no contact. But there is also the chance that they didn’t pass on the full statement at the time ?
 
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