Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #118

[TheVisual]

Might not but unlikely IMO. Abby herself was wearing the same clothes she had been photographed in the day she was photographed at the hotel with her grandfather and both were wearing borrowed sweatshirts and had travelled to the trails in a vehicle belonging to Libby's sister, therefore would also have picked up touch DNA from the vehicle interior and door handles plus touch DNA from Libby's home and from any visitors to the home. It is mind boggling.

ETA. Also, if they had identified all the DNA, as you suggest, why are they swabbing suspects or obtaining DNA from people like Etter?

This is what I have thought also. Why continue to swab if they know who the perp is? They have swabbed my POI so I'm wondering also if all swabs get processed and is he in the CODIS now. I hope they are watching him.

 

[Brubon]

I wonder..... how tall is P.B.
Does he have any ties to Indiana.
It's a long ways from Iowa to Colorado...as it would be from Iowa to Indiana.
Just wondering aloud.
MOO
Eternal rest grant unto Abby and Libby.

 

[Brubon]

Triple copy???
Sorry.

 

[Brubon]

Double copy. Ughhh

 

[Mike Britton]

Apologies in advance for the grumpy tone of this comment.

I occasionally hear suggestions that this offender is someone of respect and good standing in Delphi, the interpretation being he is boldly "hiding in plain sight" as a prominent figure in town.

He's going on with his life, and keeping close tabs on the case. Short of a confession, there can be no hiding if an identity hasn't been revealed. Like many things in this case, these archetypical images are thrown up before us that detract from any eventual truths.

The tendencies to suspect public figures and interpret LE's speeches too precisely aren't helpful. There are a few sensationalist books that attempt to identify Jack the Ripper by implicating royalty and famous artists of the time. None of the theories were relevant at the time, and few remain compelling. They are post mortem witch hunts, and their marketing lurid and exploitative. This is not a cinematic whodunit in which the mayor will be revealed as the perpetrator.

There's also been a lot of speculation over LE's declaration that the offender "...could be in this room." This was a hypothetical put forth at the time, not a literal declaration that people in the room were suspected of the murders. So much energy has been expended on the actual people in that room that I've begin to think of the April PC's execution as a huge misstep.

 

[sunsetbeach]

So I see the photographer with the controversial sighting of clothing in the creek is the same photographer that took photo 5. I guess that clinched it for all the non believers that couldn't envision how he was able to see said clothing. Moo

I totally believe this guy took a photo(s) of the clothing in the creek. I bet he has more than one because photographers take multiple shots so they can choose the best photo.

He also took this photo so he was very near the crime scene.

 

[sunsetbeach]

Would it be possible to attach the photo. I'm outside USA and get denied access to the link. Thanks

 

[sunsetbeach]

UPDATED: Foul play suspected after bodies found along Deer Creek in Delphi; vigil held

Photo #5 FWIW, I don’t think this is Leazenby, and I don’t see a shoe print, moo
View attachment 219266

You’re correct, it is not Leazenby.

 

[tresir2012]

I wonder..... how tall is P.B.
Does he have any ties to Indiana.
It's a long ways from Iowa to Colorado...as it would be from Iowa to Indiana.
Just wondering aloud.
MOO
Eternal rest grant unto Abby and Libby.

I have seen a pic of him with a court officer and he does not look too tall. It is about 800 miles from Waterloo, Iowa to Aurora, Co with Sioux City (Alicia Hummel) about a quarter of the way. Obviously we don't know the COD in this case but the Waterloo and Sioux city cases sound very similar attack methods, blunt force trauma from behind. One survived one didn't.

 

[tresir2012]

Apologies in advance for the grumpy tone of this comment.

I occasionally hear suggestions that this offender is someone of respect and good standing in Delphi, the interpretation being he is boldly "hiding in plain sight" as a prominent figure in town.

He's going on with his life, and keeping close tabs on the case. Short of a confession, there can be no hiding if an identity hasn't been revealed. Like many things in this case, these archetypical images are thrown up before us that detract from any eventual truths.

The tendencies to suspect public figures and interpret LE's speeches too precisely aren't helpful. There are a few sensationalist books that attempt to identify Jack the Ripper by implicating royalty and famous artists of the time. None of the theories were relevant at the time, and few remain compelling. They are post mortem witch hunts, and their marketing lurid and exploitative. This is not a cinematic whodunit in which the mayor will be revealed as the perpetrator.

There's also been a lot of speculation over LE's declaration that the offender "...could be in this room." This was a hypothetical put forth at the time, not a literal declaration that people in the room were suspected of the murders. So much energy has been expended on the actual people in that room that I've begin to think of the April PC's execution as a huge misstep.

I spotted several of my POIs in the PC photos. Also, LE are the ones who suggested he could be at the PC and that he was hiding in plain sight, lived in or was previously from Delphi or worked there, so he shouldn't have suggested it if he didn't think that was the case. It was a deliberate attempt to have more tips submitted and for people to look at and, if necessary, tell on their neighbours or relatives MOO.

If it takes two years to match a perp in CODIS that is very depressing. We could still be two years away from any arrest. :-(

 

[JnRyan]

Yes but Sheriff Leazenby kind of confirmed it in an article, a RadarOnline article (still wondering how that one came about).

“We sent more evidence to the FBI at Quantico just before Christmas,” Sheriff Leazenby told Radar in an exclusive interview and said they were doing “DNA testing research,” with regards to the case..."

There would be none of that "DNA testing research" without recovered crime scene DNA

Cops Send Evidence To FBI In Indiana Teens Abigail Williams & Liberty German’s Murder

I don't know the context of the Sheriff's comment. Is he referring to DNA they already have and they are sending it off for further testing? OR is he referring to sending off evidence at the crime scene - e.g., victims' articles of clothing - to see if they can find DNA where it had tested and none found or it had not been previously tested for DNA?

To me, I don't see an indication that LE has DNA. I suspect there is probably either a new test available or they want a second opinion. While I don't believe LE has ever definitely stated they have DNA evidence, I find it hard to believe LE would not have found some. I strongly suspect LE has DNA, but they just can't determine if they have DNA from the killer. That is, it is unidentified touch DNA and they may have more than one DNA profile.

 

[JnRyan]

The one thing that continually comes up in my mind is that nobody heard a thing. No screams? No gunfire?

I've read the argument about the remoteness, etc. But I'm a country boy, and I guarantee somebody that was on that trail would have heard a gunshot, or a scream.

I think they had to have been gagged, or murdered, real early on OR.....

they willingly went with BG, because they thought they were meeting up with someone that was not a threat.

It will take some convincing for me that one girl watched the other die, without screaming.

I can see a pair of gunshots being ignored. But no screams heard? That is a part of this I find difficult to apprehend. One reenactment (Anthony Greeno's) had a lady screaming from the crime scene and a second observer on the trail not far from the NW end of the bridge stated they could clearly hear the screams.

 

[MingyMoo]

@MingyMoo this is what I was asking for. Thanks Peppery

Many Thanks @Peppery

 

[Torch Carrier]

That's a bit depressing if it is taking 2 years to match DNA from CODIS isn't it? 2 years from his crime till they luckily got his DNA then another 2 years for matching. And he travelled at least 800 miles in the meantime. I found the original post of the Waterloo incident on the Alicia Hummel thread then searched and realised they had got him this year. I hope they check the Alicia Hummel murder and Abby and Libby as it is similar. As well as checking Lyric and Lizzie case too as he lived in Cedar Falls.

Good points as always, Tresir. Might you drop an email to the tip line about this guy? Just to assure they consider him... ?

 

[Torch Carrier]

Thank you all SO very much for unwaveringly holding the torch aloft in our quest for justice for these two most deserving girls!

I believe The Day is coming... let it be sooner rather than later ... when BG is hauled into an interrogation room for scrutiny. Can't wait!!!

Keep the faith. Justice WILL prevail.

Carry on!

 

[stattlich1]

To me, I don't see an indication that LE has DNA.

"At every crime scene, you are going to have DNA. We are still working on identifying all of the DNA that we have there,” Holeman said in August 2017.
Delphi murders update 2019: Here's what we know about unsolved killings of Abby and Libby

 

[stattlich1]

I can see a pair of gunshots being ignored. But no screams heard? That is a part of this I find difficult to apprehend. One reenactment (Anthony Greeno's) had a lady screaming from the crime scene and a second observer on the trail not far from the NW end of the bridge stated they could clearly hear the screams.

Assuming people on the trails, and even locals living nearby, when in the course of LE questioning regarding the murders, do you not think they'd mention hearing gunfire in the vicinity that would have coincided with the timing of the murders?

 

[carbuff]

I don't think BG would have stuck around long enough to do that and then cut the girls down afterward. They were supposedly found covered in brush (so presumably on the ground) right? If they'd been left hanging, then I think they would have been spotted more quickly.

I don't believe in the theory myself; I was addressing the specific question of the mechanics of how it could be done.

 

[Evinrude]

I spotted several of my POIs in the PC photos. Also, LE are the ones who suggested he could be at the PC and that he was hiding in plain sight, lived in or was previously from Delphi or worked there, so he shouldn't have suggested it if he didn't think that was the case. It was a deliberate attempt to have more tips submitted and for people to look at and, if necessary, tell on their neighbours or relatives MOO.

If it takes two years to match a perp in CODIS that is very depressing. We could still be two years away from any arrest. :-(

“Could”, “possibly”, etc are very ambiguous words. People put too much thought to them.
It is because LE doesnt know.

on another subject, I am a weatherman.
Tomorrow it could be sunny with a possibility that you wont see the sun at all. Im pretty sure!
See, Im never wrong.

mOO

ramble on

 

[Boxer]

I have the same thoughts you do about the lack of DNA (if that turns out to be true). However, IMO they were probably not shot and I'll tell you why I think that. There is a radio show called "the Indiana State Police Road Show" which is hosted by an ISP trooper and you can also watch it on youtube. Normally it has public safety info and the like but both Supt. Carter and ISP Chief Information Officer Dave Bursten have been on the show (at different times) to discuss the Delphi murders. When Dave Bursten was on, the host asked him why more info about the cause of death was not released and he gave a spiel about how that helps the winnow out useless tips. If I recall correctly he said (I'm paraphrasing here) "if someone says 'I know who did this because they confessed to me,' then we ask them if they know how the they were killed. And if they say..." (here he paused as if trying to decide on an example) "'he said he shot them two times in the back', then now we know the tip isn't a good one because that doesn't match the actual cause of death." So JMO but he clearly chose his words in this example and I doubt he would brought up a gun if one was actually used to kill them.

Edit to add: I do think a gun could have been used to menace them/make them comply. I just think it wasn't used to kill them. I think he desired a different method for that.

I think he wore gloves.