OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #52

[Sleuthinsleuther]

Why is she a joke? Thanks.

I just don’t like her. Moo imo

 

[Fletcher73]

I totally missed that! I thought they were all asleep; I never knew she had a cap in her mouth; maybe to quiet her so a scream wouldn’t be heard? Sickening...

No, the foam cap wasn't something inserted into her mouth - the foam cap was a physical reaction of the body as a result of trauma. Possibly from getting strangled or smothered, or possibly the first bullet didn't kill her, and the foam was generated, then the next shot killed her.
JMO bc I don't have a link to the autopsy reports or med info.

 

[sunshineray]

I totally missed that! I thought they were all asleep; I never knew she had a cap in her mouth; maybe to quiet her so a scream wouldn’t be heard? Sickening...

From the redacted reports and articles I've read, JMO:

CRSR was awake and fighting, I don't know about GR but those trailers aren't very big, could be GR getting shot is what woke up CRSR, DR I think was probably awake by where she was found, I believe HR maybe was sleeping, CRJR tried to hide himself so he was awake, FR was beaten but that could have been after death but the hatred shown with these murders makes me think he was alive when beaten, HHG showed some signs of high adrenaline so I think she awoke and was terrified, KR was most likely asleep.

Just all what I personally think. We'll find out when the trials happen.
May justice be served for the Rhodens and Hannah Hazel.

 

[sunshineray]

I was commenting to sunshineray’s post ; I assumed she meant ball cap. You are probably correct. I should keep my thoughts to myself...

Never feel like you can't discuss things. I don't think there's an atmosphere of censure here at WB.

I haven't read the reports in forever, so from memory and paraphrasing...HR had a small bloody foam cap on her lips from aspiration...in short, she was trying very hard to breathe. It's all so horrible to think on.

 

[Dudly]

This may be a sample of a reliable confidential source. Just an opinion....

 

[Dudly]

I was commenting to sunshineray’s post ; I assumed she meant ball cap. You are probably correct. I should keep my thoughts to myself...

I was just trying to explain what it was. Here is a better explanation:
"But to put it extremely simply; when you die you immediately begin to release all the fluids and gases in your body. Your mouth and nose are major portals of exit for gases and saliva, when gases and saliva mix it turns foamy."
https://www.quora.com/What-causes-a-dead-person-to-foam-at-the-mouth

 

[Johnny B Bad]

No, the foam cap wasn't something inserted into her mouth - the foam cap was a physical reaction of the body as a result of trauma. Possibly from getting strangled or smothered, or possibly the first bullet didn't kill her, and the foam was generated, then the next shot killed her.
JMO bc I don't have a link to the autopsy reports or med info.

https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov...BCI/Pike-County-Final-Autopsies-REDACTED.aspx

 

[Dudly]

From the redacted reports and articles I've read, JMO:

CRSR was awake and fighting, I don't know about GR but those trailers aren't very big, could be GR getting shot is what woke up CRSR, DR I think was probably awake by where she was found, I believe HR maybe was sleeping, CRJR tried to hide himself so he was awake, FR was beaten but that could have been after death but the hatred shown with these murders makes me think he was alive when beaten, HHG showed some signs of high adrenaline so I think she awoke and was terrified, KR was most likely asleep.

Just all what I personally think. We'll find out when the trials happen.
May justice be served for the Rhodens and Hannah Hazel.

From what I have read in Forums and news media, I was under the impression DR was found in bed with a pillow over her face. I have never seen a mention that FR was beaten. It was said by BJM that CRsr looked like he was beaten in her 911 call.
If FR was shot first, HHG could very well have woken up terrified. I have read that CRjr was between his bed and the wall shot two times in the top of his head, so he very likely was hiding. Of course these are just my opinions and thoughts. Your thoughts and opinions may be different and that is fine. We have few facts to reach opinions.

 

[Rutledge203]

From the redacted reports and articles I've read, JMO:

CRSR was awake and fighting, I don't know about GR but those trailers aren't very big, could be GR getting shot is what woke up CRSR, DR I think was probably awake by where she was found, I believe HR maybe was sleeping, CRJR tried to hide himself so he was awake, FR was beaten but that could have been after death but the hatred shown with these murders makes me think he was alive when beaten, HHG showed some signs of high adrenaline so I think she awoke and was terrified, KR was most likely asleep.

Just all what I personally think. We'll find out when the trials happen.
May justice be served for the Rhodens and Hannah Hazel.

Very good. I agree. Horrible truths.

 

[eanspratt]

A foam cap or a foam cone is normally an indicator of an opiate overdose though it can simply be a result of gases exiting the body upon death.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

D

 

[IType]

A foam cap or a foam cone is normally an indicator of an opiate overdose though it can simply be a result of gases exiting the body upon death.

More than a year ago, prior to the arrests in this case, I shared some of my thoughts as to the "foam" listed in HMR's mouth in her autopsy.

In HMR's postmortem exam on page 46 of her autopsy is the statement (loosely quoted) The mouth...small foam cap is at the lips.

This is not mentioned in any of the other victims' autopsies. At that time I offered a possible scenario for this finding, and I still believe it strongly to be the case------Yes, a foam cap can sometimes be seen after death if the deceased has opiates/opioids in their system at the time of death. My gut feeling on this is that because HMR delivered a baby only a few days before her death, she may have been taking a prescription medication that was given to her at the time of discharge to help control postpartum (post childbirth) pain. Now, this is only my my opinion--and this explanation probably wouldn't hold water if HMR was breastfeeding her little girl. But, there's no way for us to know if she was nursing the baby or bottle feeding her. If the full, c0mpletely unredacted autopsies are ever released to the general public, there might be information to clarify this in the ME's exam.

I am not a nurse or physician but have many, many years' experience as a medical transcripitionist. I'm sorry I don't know what thread my posts were in, but it was definitely between the time of the release of less-redacted autopsies and the time of the arrests.

The above information loosely quoting the presence of the foam cap can be found in the secondarily-issued autopsy report for HMR in the media/timeline--the autopsies that were issued not long before the arrests which are still redacted but not as bad as the first set released, on page 46 under the "general" heading of postmortem exam.

JMO

Edited by me for clarity

 

[crazyhorse60]

The foaming at the mouth with heroin overdoses is a function of not breathing so it wouldn't apply unless Hannah coincidentally overdosed on opiates prior to being shot. I would highly doubt that anyone would give opiates for post partum pain these days. They don't even give them for serious orthopedic surgeries. It's more likely that a bullet went into her chest and caused blood to enter her lung as she died.

 

[Loomis124]

The foaming at the mouth with heroin overdoses is a function of not breathing so it wouldn't apply unless Hannah coincidentally overdosed on opiates prior to being shot. I would highly doubt that anyone would give opiates for post partum pain these days. They don't even give them for serious orthopedic surgeries. It's more likely that a bullet went into her chest and caused blood to enter her lung as she died.

AMEN! It never ceases to amaze me how others seem to love bashing the victims, in this case, implying HMR used opiates or was on heroin. I call BS to this theory without some proof! Or a link would work!

Unless, of course, those that are seemingly in the know, are implying that the Wagners injected her with a heroin overdose prior to shooting her to death, to which I would not be surprised in the least.

 

[Loomis124]

More than a year ago, prior to the arrests in this case, I shared some of my thoughts as to the "foam" listed in HMR's mouth in her autopsy.

In HMR's postmortem exam on page 46 of her autopsy is the statement (loosely quoted) The mouth...small foam cap is at the lips.

This is not mentioned in any of the other victims' autopsies. At that time I offered a possible scenario for this finding, and I still believe it strongly to be the case------Yes, a foam cap can sometimes be seen after death if the deceased has opiates/opioids in their system at the time of death. My gut feeling on this is that because HMR delivered a baby only a few days before her death, she may have been taking a prescription medication that was given to her at the time of discharge to help control postpartum (post childbirth) pain. Now, this is only my my opinion--and this explanation probably wouldn't hold water if HMR was breastfeeding her little girl. But, there's no way for us to know if she was nursing the baby or bottle feeding her. If the full, c0mpletely unredacted autopsies are ever released to the general public, there might be information to clarify this in the ME's exam.

I am not a nurse or physician but have many, many years' experience as a medical transcripitionist. I'm sorry I don't know what thread my posts were in, but it was definitely between the time of the release of less-redacted autopsies and the time of the arrests.

The above information loosely quoting the presence of the foam cap can be found in the secondarily-issued autopsy report for HMR in the media/timeline--the autopsies that were issued not long before the arrests which are still redacted but not as bad as the first set released, on page 46 under the "general" heading of postmortem exam.

JMO

Edited by me for clarity

New mothers are not prescribed opiates for post pain in a simple child birth. Geez. Common sense, So you must be implying HMR used opiates or heroin prior to her death? BS. If so, her new baby would have been born addicted. So please explain, for the good of the thread. Thank you.

 

[Loomis124]

I just don’t like her. Moo imo

Well, finally we know the truth! Lol

 

[Loomis124]

DBM

 

[Puzzles8]

New mothers are not prescribed opiates for post pain in a simple child birth. Geez. Common sense, So you must be implying HMR used opiates or heroin prior to her death? BS. If so, her new baby would have been born addicted. So please explain, for the good of the thread. Thank you.

Do you know this for fact? Are you a ob/gyne? I would think that medical call would be specific to each individual birth and it's possible complications. The call being made by their physician.
If it is common sense, please link your source.

 

[eanspratt]

A foam cap or a foam cone is normally an indicator of an opiate overdose though it can simply be a result of gases exiting the body upon death.

For clarification: I in no way intended to insinuate that she had opiates in her system. I should have better represented my thoughts.

 

[Cool Cats]

Tomorrow - Monday December 9th - 1:30 pm
George "Billy" Wagner III
PRE-TRIAL HEARING & SCHEDULING CONFERENCE

Billy's last JOURNAL ENTRY was on October 22nd. It was a lengthy JOURNAL ENTRY and ended with NON-SUBSTANTIVE MOTIONS and with notice that the new SUBSTANTIVE MOTIONS deadline is December 11, 2019.

The Non-Substantive Motions are almost done, so if not tomorrow, hopefully on his next hearing the Substantive Fact-Based Motions, based on facts about his Case, will be argued.

The Court finds the State of Ohio opposes, at least in part, Defendant's Motions No. 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 21, 23, 24, 25, 26, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40 and 41.

The Court hereby issues the following decisions with respect to Defendant's Motion No. 12, Defendant's Motion No. 19, and Defendant's Motion No. 27.

As to Defendant's Motion No. 12, entitled "DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR COMPREHENSIVE VOIR DIRE": Upon agreement of the parties, the Court grants Defendant's Motion No. 12; provided, however, that the Court will regulate voir dire of prospective jurors, affording each party an opportunity for reasonably comprehensive voir dire.

As to Defendant's Motion No. 19, entitled "DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR A COURTROOM DECORUM ORDER TO ENSURE A FAIR TRIAL": Upon agreement of the parties, the Court grants Defendant's Motion No. 19; and the Court shall issue a specific court room decorum order.

As to Defendant's Motion No. 27, entitled "DEFENDANT'S MOTION FOR A JURY VIEW": Upon agreement of the parties, the Court grants Defendant's Motion No. 27.

At the request of counsel for the State of Ohio and the Defendant, the Court reserves ruling upon Defendant's Motion No. 7, entitled "DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO SUBMIT A DETAILED JURY QUESTIONAIRE," in order to afford counsel for each party an opportunity to work together to prepare a proposed detailed jury questionnaire agreeable to both parties.

The Court took under advisement the remainder of the "non-substantive" motions or motions not based upon the specific facts of this action and will issue written decisions concerning the same. There being no further matters before the Court, said Court was adjourned.

11/05/2019 ENTRY GRANTING DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO SET NEW SUBSTANTIVE MOTIONS DEADLINE TO DECEMBER 11, 2019 FILED

11/20/2019 REQUEST AND JUDGMENT ENTRY FOR COURT-PAID EXPERTS/AND/OR EXPENSES