AMBER ALERT NJ - Dulce Mariá Alavez, 5, abducted at Bridgeton City Park, Cumberland County, 16 Sept 2019 #6

[CSIDreamer]

The scenario presented by Noema (witnesses apparently claiming they saw Dulce running toward the buildings, and Dulce's little brother gesturing that a man waved to them) just doesn't seem to fit well with a stranger abduction. Sounds like Dulce by herself run towards this man (if witnesses are correct). There was also a black man there according to what a witness supposedly told Noema, yet police haven't released any description of this man (he would be a witness even if he isn't a suspect), only of Hispanic men. This is such a confusing case.

Well, if she knew him and ran off to him. A 5 year olds world is fairly limited. Church, school, neighbors, relatives.

 

[MimosaMornings]

And was Noema involved enough in Dulce’s life to know who her teachers were or who she came in contact with?
What was Dulce’s daily schedule?

 

[MsMarple]

Respectfully snipped for focus.
I agree with some of this. *If* the child was knowingly handed off to someone, they were most likely a middleman/person, and Dulce's ultimate destination is likely unknown. However, *if* the above scenario occurred, I *do not* believe that Dulce was handed off to go to a benevolent family to love and care for her. She already had her grandparents, and it appears they took good care of her.
It is my *opinion* that *if* the child was handed off, it was for nefarious purposes.

Dulce's biological mother does not present credibly. There have been a myriad of possible reasons discussed as to why that may be. I do believe that the reward money is a strong incentive for someone to come forward, and let's hope that happens.

Amateur opinion and speculation

I agree that Dulce was probably not handed off to someone and even if she was for nefarious reasons I can't see a motive. We've been following cases long enough to know there are many "throwaway" children around that someone wanting to use a child for something criminal would be taking a huge risk to go after Dulce who is surrounded by family who care. It would be much safer to seek out a child whose parent wouldn't even bother to report them abducted. Look at the poor little unidentified girl in Delaware for example.

And I also agree there's a credibility issue but IMO it's due to Noema feeling attacked by the public in social media more than her wanting to hide something that would solve the case.

Again, where's the motive? Not money as her parents appear to support her and maybe her boyfriend too. Not to shirk her responsibility since the kids are not living with her. And I don't think she wants to upset her parents so not revenge. Most of all I don't believe she's intellectually capable of fooling LE for three months without breaking.

So what's left? I speculate on two options: one; that Dulce was abducted by a stranger or two; that someone close to her doesn't want Dulce to be with her. And no one in the family has been able to come up with a viable suspect that fits that bill. I do however keep in mind a third possibility - that it's someone Noema and/or the family knows only as an acquaintance who for some sick reason obsessed over Dulce. Someone they would never think of but who has crossed their path sometime, somewhere.

So frustrating. All MOO.

 

[peppertheyorkiepoo]

I thought I was confused before the DR Phil interview, now I know I am confused. To many discrepancies in what has been said( on DP show) and what as been reported.

I watched Dr. Phil for the third time. Something that really stood out to me is she as not asked about the polygraph results. I don't know if does not know she as the right to this information. She really needs an advocate to help tell her what her wrights are. This so called spokes person reminds me of a friend in sheep's clothing. One minute she sounds like believes mom, the next she says mom is hiding something.

 

[peppertheyorkiepoo]

Well, if she knew him and ran off to him. A 5 year olds world is fairly limited. Church, school, neighbors, relatives.

If she knew him and the brother didn't I would say it would be school. I feel the brother would know the same people she did other than school. If a man they both knew motioned I think both children would have went.JMO

 

[283]

I watched Dr. Phil for the third time. Something that really stood out to me is she as not asked about the polygraph results. I don't know if does not know she as the right to this information. She really needs an advocate to help tell her what her wrights are. This so called spokes person reminds me of a friend in sheep's clothing. One minute she sounds like believes mom, the next she says mom is hiding something.

Apparently she has an advocate from the missing pieces network who scheduled the dr Phil interview , not sure if she has a local advocate designated on her behalf. there is clearly a disconnect beyond language barrier - because she was saying she hasn’t been receiving updates from law enforcement but law enforcement has said they are in constant communication with the family - perhaps when they say that they are referring to grandparents ? Or the spokesperson is just spewing false info to the media which is entirely possible ?

 

[jjenny]

I am surprised Dr. Phil hasn't mentioned Dulce's father at all, especially considering that at some point of time father supposedly wanted custody (even though he originally didn't believe the child was his). As far as I know that guy then decided the child was his based on child's looks. I don't think he was DNA tested. Could there be any other father candidates or men who think they might be the father?

 

[MJPeony]

.
.....There was also a black man there according to what a witness supposedly told Noema, yet police haven't released any description of this man (he would be a witness even if he isn't a suspect), only of Hispanic men. This is such a confusing case.

SBBM

Yes!! As we used to say in high school- What’s up with THAT?

How on earth does the official police sketch depict a hispanic man, but Noema tells Dr Phil that the witness said the guy was black?

If we assume the sketch was created based on Noema’s description of her old ex or “friend” that she postulated could have tried to take Dulce, then why does she still tell Dr Phil it was a black guy.

This part is quite bizarre when I think about it.

MOO.

 

[peppertheyorkiepoo]

I am surprised Dr. Phil hasn't mentioned Dulce's father at all, especially considering that at some point of time father supposedly wanted custody (even though he originally didn't believe the child was his). As far as I know that guy then decided the child was his based on child's looks. I don't think he was DNA tested. Could there be any other father candidates or men who think they might be the father?

Good question. The only problem I have with that is if he was local there would be know way to hide her. If he isn't local anymore, he may be able to get away with it, if he knows someone who can forge documents. SS card, birth certificate ect...

 

[jjenny]

Sketch of the original Hispanic man who supposedly had a red van was created based on 10 year old basketball player's description. Not sure about the second Hispanic man, but I don't think it was based on Noema's description of an old friend. As far as I can tell police know who this old friend is and found no evidence connecting him to the case.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Sketch of the original Hispanic man who supposedly had a red van was created based on 10 year old basketball player's description. Not sure about the second Hispanic man, but I don't think it was based on Noema's description of an old friend. As far as I can tell police know who this old friend is and found no evidence connecting him to the case.

Sounds like a red herring....

amateur opinion and speculation

 

[casesensitive]

I am surprised Dr. Phil hasn't mentioned Dulce's father at all, especially considering that at some point of time father supposedly wanted custody (even though he originally didn't believe the child was his). As far as I know that guy then decided the child was his based on child's looks. I don't think he was DNA tested. Could there be any other father candidates or men who think they might be the father?

Speaking of Dulce's father, is he living in Mexico (away from his family in Bridgeton City Park) because he could be charged with statutory rape by impregnating a 14 year old girl? How old is he, and why would he want custody of Dulce in Mexico? Did he recently tell his Bridgeton family that he now believes that Dulce is his child? Is his family interested in being involved in her life? Have they been denied access to her by Noema's parents?

 

[jjenny]

Per Noema, bio-dad might have been deported to Mexico so he might be living there because he has no legal status in the US.

 

[MimosaMornings]

In the early interviews with Noema, she mentions the bio father had recently expressed interest in custody of Dulce. And she said he was going to university to provide a better life for Dulce.

Who else is in contact with him besides Noema? And why wasn’t he mentioned in the show? Some of this doesn’t make sense.

 

[MJPeony]

Sketch of the original Hispanic man who supposedly had a red van was created based on 10 year old basketball player's description. Not sure about the second Hispanic man, but I don't think it was based on Noema's description of an old friend. As far as I can tell police know who this old friend is and found no evidence connecting him to the case.

True- LE wouldn’t need to release a sketch of the guy if they’d already questioned him.

Still makes no sense why Noema would say the witness saw a black man if the witness had them draw up a sketch of a Hispanic man.

The more I think about the Dr Phil interview vis a vis the other info put out over the past few months the more my brain hurts.

MOO.

 

[Suthrnqt]

DBM

 

[Suthrnqt]

ADMIN WARNING:

How a child may have been conceived X years ago has zero relevance to the fact they are now missing. Try to solve Dulce's disappearance rather than trying to dig up dirt on family members.

The next person to mention the possibility of rape will receive a permanent thread reply ban.

ETA: And stop, just STOP the victim shaming of mom and the rest of the family. That is not what WS is about. Wait for the facts to come out instead of negative speculation and bashing family members who are already traumatized over the loss of Dulce.

 

[Steelslady]

SBBM

Yes!! As we used to say in high school- What’s up with THAT?

How on earth does the official police sketch depict a hispanic man, but Noema tells Dr Phil that the witness said the guy was black?

If we assume the sketch was created based on Noema’s description of her old ex or “friend” that she postulated could have tried to take Dulce, then why does she still tell Dr Phil it was a black guy.

This part is quite bizarre when I think about it.

MOO.

I would just like the real facts to stay facts and not always change. I am actually tired of hearing about the language barrier- she can speak English fine, we're not talking about floor/ground here or the improper usage of pronouns- we're talking facts that keep changing!

She's 19 years old, not 9. She's an adult. Pregnant with her 3rd child.

 

[casesensitive]

Re sillybilly's post:

ADMIN WARNING:

"How a child may have been conceived X years ago has zero relevance to the fact they are now missing. Try to solve Dulce's disappearance rather than trying to dig up dirt on family members.

The next person to mention the possibility of rape will receive a permanent thread reply ban.

ETA: And stop, just STOP the victim shaming of mom and the rest of the family. That is not what WS is about. Wait for the facts to come out instead of negative speculation and bashing family members who are already traumatized over the loss of Dulce."



I am not aware of what sillybilly was referring to when she posted this. My last post is not about rape or dishing dirt on the family. It seems that there was consensual sexual relations between Dulce's parents. That does not rule out statutory rape charges due to Noema's age.

It is relevant to the investigation to know who may have a motive to abduct her. It's possible that her father had to leave USA and flee to Mexico due to a possibility of being arrested for S. R. We don't know how badly Noema's family reacted to him getting her pregnant at 14.

With his new interest in Dulce, he and his family may have a motive to abduct her, especially if they are being denied contact, or think that she would be better off with them for some reason.

If sillybilly thinks my posts are inappropriate, I apologize and expect them to be deleted. Not me--the posts.

 

[Gardener1850]

True- LE wouldn’t need to release a sketch of the guy if they’d already questioned him.

Still makes no sense why Noema would say the witness saw a black man if the witness had them draw up a sketch of a Hispanic man.

The more I think about the Dr Phil interview vis a vis the other info put out over the past few months the more my brain hurts.

MOO.

Maybe police were already able to locate and interview the black man and are only still looking for the Hispanic man, hence the sketch of him? Or maybe the black man does not exist and the girls changed their story after being interviewed by police more than once? Noema would have no way of knowing if the girls changed their story as police usually will not share those kind of investigation details with anyone, not even family members of the missing child. Since Noema did not witness the men in the park at the time when Dulce went missing, she is relating 2nd and 3rd hand info from children. Plus that 3rd hand info may have had to be translated from English to Spanish and back to English again before she shares it. I don't think it is any big mystery why we get different details and different words from her upon each different telling. She was not the witness and the fact of the witnesses being children means they may have changed what they said after police interviewed them several times.

What if this Hispanic man they are looking for is someone that the girls from the basketball court recognized as a regular at the park but the girls were afraid of him and didn't want to share what he looked like at first? Or maybe the girls know who he is and that he is here illegally and they didn't want him to get in trouble? The girls might have made up seeing a black man at first but recanted that story later and admitted he was Hispanic. It also happens pretty often that eye witnesses are honestly mistaken in what they saw. Sometimes it is difficult for witnesses to correctly guess racial identification, especially if they didn't have any reason to pay attention to the person at the time they saw him. Maybe different girls saw different things but the same man? Maybe half the girls said they saw a Hispanic man and half the girls said he was black-- that could have gotten communicated to Noema who was on the phone with 911 as being two men. Maybe what the others thought was a black man was later determined to be a Hispanic man and also the same man-- but only after police questioned the girls more than once. The thing is that "facts" that are based solely on eyewitness accounts can change as police investigate. And two witnesses can see the same event and give vastly different accounts of what they saw. There may be some of that type of uncertainty from multiple child witnesses going on here.

MOO.