Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #118

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I have the same thoughts you do about the lack of DNA (if that turns out to be true). However, IMO they were probably not shot and I'll tell you why I think that. There is a radio show called "the Indiana State Police Road Show" which is hosted by an ISP trooper and you can also watch it on youtube. Normally it has public safety info and the like but both Supt. Carter and ISP Chief Information Officer Dave Bursten have been on the show (at different times) to discuss the Delphi murders. When Dave Bursten was on, the host asked him why more info about the cause of death was not released and he gave a spiel about how that helps the winnow out useless tips. If I recall correctly he said (I'm paraphrasing here) "if someone says 'I know who did this because they confessed to me,' then we ask them if they know how the they were killed. And if they say..." (here he paused as if trying to decide on an example) "'he said he shot them two times in the back', then now we know the tip isn't a good one because that doesn't match the actual cause of death." So JMO but he clearly chose his words in this example and I doubt he would brought up a gun if one was actually used to kill them.

Edit to add: I do think a gun could have been used to menace them/make them comply. I just think it wasn't used to kill them. I think he desired a different method for that.

I think he wore gloves.
I noticed something in the timeline which made me wonder about this, marking.

MOO I don't think she was still alive when the phone rang.
But he knew it was time to go then.
 
Assuming people on the trails, and even locals living nearby, when in the course of LE questioning regarding the murders, do you not think they'd mention hearing gunfire in the vicinity that would have coincided with the timing of the murders?
The thing is, that would be like someone asking you if you heard a gunshot yesterday or two days ago around 3pm. Personally, I was doing so much running around I have no idea where I was at 3pm. We occasionally hear gunshots near my home (lots of hunting land) but I couldn’t tell you if I heard one yesterday or the day before.
 
I saved that photo to my drive, then opened it, and enlarged it. There is not a shoe print in terms of the exact pattern of the bottom of a sneaker, (at least not that I have found) rather a spot above that dead tree roots where it appears the dirt in the bank has been disturbed such that a person planted their foot there to step up that steep bank.

Whoever that guy is, he appears to be carrying a firearm, and a few other goodies.

carry on :)

hoof print?
IMO. It may be too large but it is very round
 
Apologies in advance for the grumpy tone of this comment.

I occasionally hear suggestions that this offender is someone of respect and good standing in Delphi, the interpretation being he is boldly "hiding in plain sight" as a prominent figure in town.

He's going on with his life, and keeping close tabs on the case. Short of a confession, there can be no hiding if an identity hasn't been revealed. Like many things in this case, these archetypical images are thrown up before us that detract from any eventual truths.

The tendencies to suspect public figures and interpret LE's speeches too precisely aren't helpful. There are a few sensationalist books that attempt to identify Jack the Ripper by implicating royalty and famous artists of the time. None of the theories were relevant at the time, and few remain compelling. They are post mortem witch hunts, and their marketing lurid and exploitative. This is not a cinematic whodunit in which the mayor will be revealed as the perpetrator.

There's also been a lot of speculation over LE's declaration that the offender "...could be in this room." This was a hypothetical put forth at the time, not a literal declaration that people in the room were suspected of the murders. So much energy has been expended on the actual people in that room that I've begin to think of the April PC's execution as a huge misstep.

Agree on all points.

I think LE has had missteps going back to the early days of the investigation.
 

2017


Video
Police searching home, property Delphi man (Fri noon report)



2018


Jun 12, 2018
Video / RTV6 The Indy Channel
Mother of murdered Delphi teen hosts ride to raise money for Libby & Abby's memorial park



2019

April 22, 2019
RTV6 / The Indy Channel / Video
Supt. Carter's message to the Delphi killer


May 15, 2019
RTV6 The Indy Channel /Video
ISP: We're 'one tip away' from solving Delphi murders


May 16, 2019
WISH TV / Video

ISP Superintendent Doug Carter talks Delphi murder investigation


June 26, 2019
WTHR / Video
 
Did any of us fellow sleuthers ever establish a time window that crime may have been commited?
 
May 16, 2019

WIBC
ISP Superintendent to WISH on Delphi Murders: "We Just Can't Show Our Hand"


"I think if he wasn't in the room, he was close by. I'm 100% convinced he was watching," Carter said.

Sander asked Carter why the video of the man seen moving in the video wasn't released sooner.

"We'll be able to tell you one day what we know and why we didn't release it. We don't want to show our hand. We don't want to show the complete picture of what we know versus what we think," Carter said.

Sander later asked Carter why the public doesn't know how the girls died.

"Because only the killer knows that and so do we. But remember, while people starve for information, particularly for sensationalized events like this, we can't show our hand. We just can't," Carter said.”
 
Sander later asked Carter why the public doesn't know how the girls died.

"Because only the killer knows that and so do we.
Does their withholding of the cause of death suggest that there was something atypical about it? Most victims of sexual homicide are strangled. BG strikes me as coldly efficient and detached. I don't think he would have taken the time to use his hands. Did some people think the white thing sticking out of his jacket was a rope? He could have also brought zip ties or plastic bags or used the victims' own clothing.
 
Does their withholding of the cause of death suggest that there was something atypical about it? Most victims of sexual homicide are strangled. BG strikes me as coldly efficient and detached. I don't think he would have taken the time to use his hands. Did some people think the white thing sticking out of his jacket was a rope? He could have also brought zip ties or plastic bags or used the victims' own clothing.

(Marking to respond, knee deep in timeline 14 atm)
 
May 16, 2019

WIBC
ISP Superintendent to WISH on Delphi Murders: "We Just Can't Show Our Hand"


"I think if he wasn't in the room, he was close by. I'm 100% convinced he was watching," Carter said.

Sander asked Carter why the video of the man seen moving in the video wasn't released sooner.

"We'll be able to tell you one day what we know and why we didn't release it. We don't want to show our hand. We don't want to show the complete picture of what we know versus what we think," Carter said.

Sander later asked Carter why the public doesn't know how the girls died.

"Because only the killer knows that and so do we. But remember, while people starve for information, particularly for sensationalized events like this, we can't show our hand. We just can't," Carter said.”

The following statement from the link above is very interesting......

"I think if he wasn't in the room, he was close by. I'm 100% convinced he was watching," Carter said.

Hmmmm...... close by as possibly from the county jail, or close by as in watching the live PC from a local restaurant, home, or office because he found out everyone attending must sign-in?

This statement has always made me wonder if LE really knows who BG is. If LE had already identified him (at time of PC), Carter wouldn't have to make assumptions about whether BG was in the room or not. He would know.
 
aren't those links already in a thread?

They are! :) @margarita25 is organizing them by date and MSM for us. (In addition to bringing them all forward again). I know I have completely forgotten some of the information from early on, and this has been a great refresher for me. Definitely makes searching for a article/link SO much easier!

Thank you, Margarita! Your hard work is appreciated!:D
 
From @margarita25 's post:

"We'll be able to tell you one day what we know and why we didn't release it. We don't want to show our hand. We don't want to show the complete picture of what we know versus what we think," Carter said.

He does kind of a word jumble here. LE keep falling back on a meme of "we don't want to show our hand", something along those lines. My translation of the above quote by Carter is they really don't have much to go on, regarding the events leading up to the deaths of the girls, evidence, etc.

IMO he didn't answer the question about releasing the video and audio early on, I think that means they really don't have much evidence in the case.

JMO
 
Apologies in advance for the grumpy tone of this comment.

I occasionally hear suggestions that this offender is someone of respect and good standing in Delphi, the interpretation being he is boldly "hiding in plain sight" as a prominent figure in town.

He's going on with his life, and keeping close tabs on the case. Short of a confession, there can be no hiding if an identity hasn't been revealed. Like many things in this case, these archetypical images are thrown up before us that detract from any eventual truths.

The tendencies to suspect public figures and interpret LE's speeches too precisely aren't helpful. There are a few sensationalist books that attempt to identify Jack the Ripper by implicating royalty and famous artists of the time. None of the theories were relevant at the time, and few remain compelling. They are post mortem witch hunts, and their marketing lurid and exploitative. This is not a cinematic whodunit in which the mayor will be revealed as the perpetrator.

There's also been a lot of speculation over LE's declaration that the offender "...could be in this room." This was a hypothetical put forth at the time, not a literal declaration that people in the room were suspected of the murders. So much energy has been expended on the actual people in that room that I've begin to think of the April PC's execution as a huge misstep.

BBM

"Short of a confession, there can be no hiding if an identity hasn't been revealed."

Maybe the identity should only be known to certain LE investigators right now. Can you imagine the free-for-all that would happen on SM and in this small town and surrounding communities if LE's prime suspect, who they can't charge yet, were to be named or even specific specific ally hinted at by LE right now?

So yes, I think the killer can be hiding within the community, just as LE has sstated. JMO
 
I don't know the context of the Sheriff's comment. Is he referring to DNA they already have and they are sending it off for further testing? OR is he referring to sending off evidence at the crime scene - e.g., victims' articles of clothing - to see if they can find DNA where it had tested and none found or it had not been previously tested for DNA?

To me, I don't see an indication that LE has DNA. I suspect there is probably either a new test available or they want a second opinion. While I don't believe LE has ever definitely stated they have DNA evidence, I find it hard to believe LE would not have found some. I strongly suspect LE has DNA, but they just can't determine if they have DNA from the killer. That is, it is unidentified touch DNA and they may have more than one DNA profile.
I take it to mean "DNA testing research" as what it says, research not just plain testing. That means they must have a sample they are trying to track and/or link. The Sheriff went on to say:

"The Sheriff told Radar that the Golden State Killer arrest was influential in their investigation. “We are very much looking into that as a way to move this case forward,” he explained. “We are doing DNA testing research. With 23 and Me and the other places that do it, that is something that has been discussed.”

This says to me the same DNA family research done in the GSK was also being tried in the Delphi case. Again, they would have to have some recovered DNA to do such research.
 
@MingyMoo this is what I was asking for. Thanks Peppery

Yes thanks Peppery.
Not certain it is Leazenby, though MOO this man has a mustache and looks like him to me.
Also "footprint" is of course my opinion only. For me it is about the placement of it, I see a ridge right where a man would put his foot to push off up the embankment.
I see what looks like a boot print
 
May 16, 2019

WIBC
ISP Superintendent to WISH on Delphi Murders: "We Just Can't Show Our Hand"


"I think if he wasn't in the room, he was close by. I'm 100% convinced he was watching," Carter said.

Sander asked Carter why the video of the man seen moving in the video wasn't released sooner.

"We'll be able to tell you one day what we know and why we didn't release it. We don't want to show our hand. We don't want to show the complete picture of what we know versus what we think," Carter said.

Sander later asked Carter why the public doesn't know how the girls died.

"Because only the killer knows that and so do we. But remember, while people starve for information, particularly for sensationalized events like this, we can't show our hand. We just can't," Carter said.”
"We'll be able to tell you one day what we know and why we didn't release it. We don't want to show our hand. We don't want to show the complete picture of what we know versus what we think," Carter said.

BBM
Meaning what we can or cannot prove in a court of law. IMO
 
Assuming people on the trails, and even locals living nearby, when in the course of LE questioning regarding the murders, do you not think they'd mention hearing gunfire in the vicinity that would have coincided with the timing of the murders?


MOO I think they would remember if girls were missing that same day. The hikers on their way to the bridge would remember gun shots up ahead in the trail.
Someone was home at one of the homes on the South side - I think they would remember gun shots from the creek.
Gunfire is fairly common, but MOO still memorable especially if asked about soon after or there was a murder nearby.
 
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I take it to mean "DNA testing research" as what it says, research not just plain testing. That means they must have a sample they are trying to track and/or link. The Sheriff went on to say:

"The Sheriff told Radar that the Golden State Killer arrest was influential in their investigation. “We are very much looking into that as a way to move this case forward,” he explained. “We are doing DNA testing research. With 23 and Me and the other places that do it, that is something that has been discussed.”

This says to me the same DNA family research done in the GSK was also being tried in the Delphi case. Again, they would have to have some recovered DNA to do such research.

This is great info, can you post link to the article. I don't recall him being so specific, but must have missed it.
 
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