Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #2

[KiwiNZ]

About using bank accounts in Australia in the 1990s. As I remember, you needed ID documents to open an account, but to withdraw cash or otherwise operate it, a signature or a card and PIN were sufficient.

In New Zealand you didn't even need ID lol, I once bleed someone's account dry because they had the same name as me and the teller just looked up my name and kindly wrote down my bank number so I had a copy and just presented that every week to withdraw money, only it wasn't my bank number !! and it wasn't until the person ran out of money months later that we realized the mistake lol

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Here are a couple of screen shots. Cant find the referance to the brother, its either deleted or i assumed it from the referance to her children.

This is another comment which i referred to in my earlier post. I think it's a shame this happened, Bill Edgar would have been an invaluable resource.

 

[KiwiNZ]

This is another comment which i referred to in my earlier post. I think it's a shame this happened, Bill Edgar would have been an invaluable resource.

wow - generally when 2 parties don't agree the truth is somewhere in the middle but Bill raises a few concerns and if you want the public to help solve a case like this then you have to be prepared to be totally honest even if it does not paint you or your family in a great light.

I know not all people react the same way but had that of been my mother whom said she did not want contact with me I would have immediately tracked down the container company, even if I had to drive to everyone in the area, and there isn't that many, and found out the address it was forwarded to. I believe anyone would have had the sense to do that, if you had a good relationship and didn't expect your mother to walk out on you.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

I think it's a breach of the websleuths rules to put up Facebook posts such as that .... I'm no expert, but I reckon it is.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Thanks Itsapuzzle!

I had totally forgotten all that.

Just putting up some snippets from Episode 3, pretty interesting really, from Janice White,
sounds like a lovely lady and good friend of Marion. I wonder if a school in South Australia
had been picked out, where it was.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

I think it's a breach of the websleuths rules to put up Facebook posts such as that .... I'm no expert, but I reckon it is.

Sorry if I've broken the rules for sharing the comment. Why would this be a no-no? Is it because its shared from a social media source or because the content questions the podcast?

 

[Mel 1303]

I wonder how Marion was getting around, she didn't have a car .... travelling to Byron Bay, Grafton, back to Ashmore, either someone was driving her or she bought a car. If she did buy a car that would show up somewhere I guess.

Hi Garyb- she may well borrowed a car. She could also have hired or purchased one- or just relied on public transport. Once she was identified as located, the information would have been there, but not available to her family.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Sorry if I've broken the rules for sharing the comment. Why would this be a no-no? Is it because its shared from a social media source or because the content questions the podcast?

No worries Intrigued, I'm probably wrong, not sure, but the admins could take it down, just putting it out there, who knows really, this is in the terms of service thingos.

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[TootsieFootsie]

Not sure if this has been posted before but I just came across a post from Alison Sandy. On another forum so not sure if it's ok to post the link here.

The post is about a pilot she is looking for. Was posted on the 27th November on a Professional Pilots forum.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

I think they cleared it up that Marion replaced her passport before she left in May and was travelling on the Florabella one. The Marion one would have been returned to her when they issued the new one but they deface them and stamp invalid on the passport, as they are only meant for your own reference to keep and can not be used as ID.

You can not enter the UK with a passport that will expire during your trip you must have 6 months past the date on your return ticket still left on your passport, this has been the case since the 70's. They check when you check in before you leave Aus and do a double check in immigration in the UK to make sure your passport complies. That is why I questioned it as I thought people where saying she has left on the Marion passport and returned on the Florabella, that just would not be possible.

Also Australians can only stay a maximum of 6 months as a tourist and have to have a return ticket, so she knew she wasn't going for 12 months.

Ahh ok. I originally thought she had flew out on the Florabella one and then I read nearer the beginning of some threads, that she went out on Marion and came back only on Florbella. I thought I must have just assumed Florabella on both by mistake. But actually , sounds like they originally thought a Marion passport used, then it got cleared up.

That's useful information for the expiration date on the passport. Given Marion seemed kinda unsure of her return (if she planned to return at all), do we know what she put on the return date for her ticket? Like can it simply be as vague as - within the next 6 months or do you need to give an estimated date?

Ok- so as for the 6 month thing, unless Marion had secured a job or had a working visa for her visit, there is no way she could have stayed there beyond the end of the year. Unless she was hoping to extend her visa or change it WHILE over there and secure work.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Ahh ok. I originally thought she had flew out on the Florabella one and then I read nearer the beginning of some threads, that she went out on Marion and came back only on Florbella. I thought I must have just assumed Florabella on both by mistake. But actually , sounds like they originally thought a Marion passport used, then it got cleared up.

That's useful information for the expiration date on the passport. Given Marion seemed kinda unsure of her return (if she planned to return at all), do we know what she put on the return date for her ticket? Like can it simply be as vague as - within the next 6 months or do you need to give an estimated date?

Ok- so as for the 6 month thing, unless Marion had secured a job or had a working visa for her visit, there is no way she could have stayed there beyond the end of the year. Unless she was hoping to extend her visa or change it WHILE over there and secure work.

I was confused as well, the podcast doesn’t seemed to have cleared up the passport issue, they should have interviewed a travel expert that would have cleared this up as the rules of travel are very black and white and extremely hard to get around unless you commit fraud or break the law in which case the police would have easily been able to see that and this would have been investigated as a crime.

Marion knew enough to give Sally her CV to forward on and not carry it with her through UK customs so must have done some research. If your caught entering the UK on a tourist visa with anthing that suggests you could be looking for work you will be deported straight away.

To book tickets to the UK you must book departure tickets at the same time, it does not have to be back to Aus it can be anywhere but you have to have a outbound flight within 6 months of your arrival + your passport must expire a minimum of 6 months after this date, your passport can not expire during your travel period. You can apply for a visa extension but on a tourist visa it’s unlikly to be extended. It is very hard to get a job while on a tourist visa but not impossible, most of the time you have to leave the country and reapply for the new visa from outside of the UK.

In the late 90,s the JAL flight to London was a regular route from the pacific, I took this twice in 98, 99 from auckland via Tokyo both times landed in Heathrow.

You can also not marry while on a tourist visa in the UK you need a special visa to do this.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

I was confused as well, the podcast doesn’t seemed to have cleared up the passport issue, they should have interviewed a travel expert that would have cleared this up as the rules of travel are very black and white and extremely hard to get around unless you commit fraud or break the law in which case the police would have easily been able to see that and this would have been investigated as a crime.

Marion knew enough to give Sally her CV to forward on and not carry it with her through UK customs so must have done some research. If your caught entering the UK on a tourist visa with anthing that suggests you could be looking for work you will be deported straight away.

To book tickets to the UK you must book departure tickets at the same time, it does not have to be back to Aus it can be anywhere but you have to have a outbound flight within 6 months of your arrival + your passport must expire a minimum of 6 months after this date, your passport can not expire during your travel period. You can apply for a visa extension but on a tourist visa it’s unlikly to be extended. It is very hard to get a job while on a tourist visa but not impossible, most of the time you have to leave the country and reapply for the new visa from outside of the UK.

In the late 90,s the JAL flight to London was a regular route from the pacific, I took this twice in 98, 99 from auckland via Tokyo both times landed in Heathrow.

You can also not marry while on a tourist visa in the UK you need a special visa to do this.

It's the same with the funds sent to the UK and the storage container. Someone from the industry could talk through the standard processes (which are black and white) and clear up a lot of questions.

Personally I think that the podcast investigative team has to have looked into this stuff but perhaps chooses to hold a little back from what is broadcast to promote discussion and maintain listener engagement.

 

[Garyb]

Hi Garyb- she may well borrowed a car. She could also have hired or purchased one- or just relied on public transport. Once she was identified as located, the information would have been there, but not available to her family.

She certainly would have had plenty of public transport options to get quickly between these towns the problem would be within the towns as they are quite big and spreed out. But as she was cashed up she probably just caught taxis.

 

[Sophie-Renee]

I was confused as well, the podcast doesn’t seemed to have cleared up the passport issue, they should have interviewed a travel expert that would have cleared this up as the rules of travel are very black and white and extremely hard to get around unless you commit fraud or break the law in which case the police would have easily been able to see that and this would have been investigated as a crime.

Marion knew enough to give Sally her CV to forward on and not carry it with her through UK customs so must have done some research. If your caught entering the UK on a tourist visa with anthing that suggests you could be looking for work you will be deported straight away.

To book tickets to the UK you must book departure tickets at the same time, it does not have to be back to Aus it can be anywhere but you have to have a outbound flight within 6 months of your arrival + your passport must expire a minimum of 6 months after this date, your passport can not expire during your travel period. You can apply for a visa extension but on a tourist visa it’s unlikly to be extended. It is very hard to get a job while on a tourist visa but not impossible, most of the time you have to leave the country and reapply for the new visa from outside of the UK.

In the late 90,s the JAL flight to London was a regular route from the pacific, I took this twice in 98, 99 from auckland via Tokyo both times landed in Heathrow.

You can also not marry while on a tourist visa in the UK you need a special visa to do this.

Thanks for some really informative information there. Sounds like the visa thing was pretty strict - the same as I believe it is now. (Never needed to apply for a visa myself ), but I certainly know from fellow Brits that for us to travel for an extended period over to Australia, there is a lot of criteria that has to be met.


I wonder if the Brisbane flight also had a Tokyo stop over. Because I wonder about the 2 dates I have seen with regards to the last phone call Sally recieved- quoted as July 31st and August 1st - does one refer to it being July 31st UK time and the other being August 1st Australian time? I believe there is about a 10 or 11 hour time diffrence, with Australia being further ahead. With Marion or Florabella said to have flown back the day after this also can make it look like she did on same day as she made the call- i.e making it seem like it must have been someone else on the flight. I had seen this being queried somewhere as being odd- but way I am assuming it is, she rang Sally on 31st July UK time and 1st August Australian time. She then flew back home on August 1st (but this refers to UK time). This is a little thing that has never been made clear and I think it had got some people thinking how can she be in 2 places at once and it definitely needs clarifying.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I wonder if Marion ever got to visit any of the places Jane Austen lived


When Marion Barter boarded a flight to London in June 1997, it was for a year-long sabbatical, the big adventure. All her life she had wanted to go on the Orient Express and now she was on her way. She had left her job, sold her house, she was cashed up, she was free. She was going to visit all the places Jane Austen lived, she excitedly told a friend two days before she left.

From the UK, Marion sent postcards to friends and family, and birthday presents. She was having a “wonderful” time. She’d been “brave” and hired a car, and was on her way to Amsterdam. “I’m in a holiday mood and beginning to unwind with all this beauty surrounding me,” she wrote to Sally. She missed “my beautiful little boys”, her pupils at The Southport School where she taught.

PressReader.com - Your favorite newspapers and magazines.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Thanks for some really informative information there. Sounds like the visa thing was pretty strict - the same as I believe it is now. (Never needed to apply for a visa myself ), but I certainly know from fellow Brits that for us to travel for an extended period over to Australia, there is a lot of criteria that has to be met.


I wonder if the Brisbane flight also had a Tokyo stop over. Because I wonder about the 2 dates I have seen with regards to the last phone call Sally recieved- quoted as July 31st and August 1st - does one refer to it being July 31st UK time and the other being August 1st Australian time? I believe there is about a 10 or 11 hour time diffrence, with Australia being further ahead. With Marion or Florabella said to have flown back the day after this also can make it look like she did on same day as she made the call- i.e making it seem like it must have been someone else on the flight. I had seen this being queried somewhere as being odd- but way I am assuming it is, she rang Sally on 31st July UK time and 1st August Australian time. She then flew back home on August 1st (but this refers to UK time). This is a little thing that has never been made clear and I think it had got some people thinking how can she be in 2 places at once and it definitely needs clarifying.

Sally said Marion wen to Japan on here way to the UK that is why I assume it was the JAL flight into Heathrow as it was a popular route in the late 90’sfrom nz and Aus.

I did a post on the time difference and whether it was possible to have made that call and arrive in Brisbane on the 2nd. By my calculations it wasn’t, so it either wasn’t her on the flight but she was alive at the time, she made the call from a stop over, or Sally has the day she called incorrect

 

[StarrChance]

Just putting up some snippets from Episode 3, pretty interesting really, from Janice White,
sounds like a lovely lady and good friend of Marion. I wonder if a school in South Australia
had been picked out, where it was.

Episode 3 (30.10) - Teaching and Turmoil at TSS

"When Marion lived on the Gold Coast she also rekindled her friendship with her old teaching friend Janice White who lived in Sydney. The pair would visit each other and stay at each other's homes, but in the early months of 1997 Janice noticed a change in Marion's behaviour."
"She was more settled but she was getting restless again in - just in the time before she went overseas. She was actually thinking of applying for a job in a school in South Australia, so yes, it was quite obvious that she was getting restless again" …

"Janice wasn't at all surprised when Marion suddenly quit her job, but she was disturbed by the shift in her personality. 'One thing Sally has mentioned is the possibility of something having happened at her old school or anything like that. Was there anything like that, that she mentioned to you?'"
" …… and she was getting on well, but she had had - there was some staff that she wasn't getting on with. She was unhappy because she'd had a falling out with some of the staff. And again I'm not really aware of what the details of that were, you know, what - what caused that. That - yeah, I guess there was some disillusionment on her part around some of the - some of the people that she worked with."

"Did she talk about why she quit, when she did quit?"
"Yeah, she was - she was stressed. She was stressed. And she was short-tempered I guess. Yeah, she - her generosity of spirit was rather dented, I guess. Yeah, she wasn't as welcoming, she wasn't as outgoing, so yes, she was obviously under - under pressure, because she was unhappy."

"Can you give me an example of what you mean in that relation?
"Well, I know - a friend and I went to the Gold Coast to visit Marion and to visit our other friend and - and Marion was always so welcoming. And she was very short with us. And we'd often go out for lunch and we'd go and look around lovely shops and that sort of thing, um, and she didn't really - she really wasn't interested in doing anything like that. She really, um, - I guess she made us feel that, you know, we weren't welcome. And - and which was surprising for her because she was - you know she was very social, always very friendly, a wonderful hostess. So yes, so I think it was possibly my last visit, the last time I saw her before she went overseas. And - and she just wasn't the same. She certainly had things on her mind. She did have a long conversation with me about moving to South Australia and working in a school there, but she was - yeah, she obviously had things on her mind, she just wasn't the same happy light hearted generous person that - that she had been."

Thankyou for the transcription, seems to lend to the voluntary aspect of her missing.
Marion was distancing herself from her friends emotionally and talking of changing States physically. People move for career/lifestyle choices of course, however her being a single woman it is usually hard to leave family and friends.

 

[Meligator]

Sally said Marion wen to Japan on here way to the UK that is why I assume it was the JAL flight into Heathrow as it was a popular route in the late 90’sfrom nz and Aus.

I did a post on the time difference and whether it was possible to have made that call and arrive in Brisbane on the 2nd. By my calculations it wasn’t, so it either wasn’t her on the flight but she was alive at the time, she made the call from a stop over, or Sally has the day she called incorrect

That’s a interesting point. Do we know what time her flight arrived on August 2nd?

Also, regarding flight to UK, it seems she in Japan for at least one night at a hotel. Is that unusual for a layover?

 

[KiwiNZ]

That’s a interesting point. Do we know what time her flight arrived on August 2nd?

Also, regarding flight to UK, it seems she in Japan for at least one night at a hotel. Is that unusual for a layover?

10am into Brisbane on the 2nd, although the police did get the airport incorrect at firstso there is a chance the date may be wrong as well.

My flight from heathrow, japan, auckland was 10hrs in the airport but auckland, Japan, Heathrow included 1 night in a hotel. That happened both times I flew 98 and 99, so I agree she would have had at least 1 night in a hotel on the flight out of Aus, you could also extend it if you wanted to but the 1 night was standard on that leg.

 

[KiwiNZ]

That’s a interesting point. Do we know what time her flight arrived on August 2nd?

Also, regarding flight to UK, it seems she in Japan for at least one night at a hotel. Is that unusual for a layover?

You also do not write the time on your arrival card so they would have had to check the flight she was on, that is written on the arrival card, so they may have made a mistake 10am instead of 10 pm maybe ?

I will see what I can find on JAL flights from Brisbane in 1997 ... probally not much but will try