Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #4

[cocomod]

I am surprised though that LDS headquarters in SLC, who monitors all kinds of media, wouldn't think it was in their best interest to clarify the membership status of Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow Daybell given the high profile nature of the case and the highly disturbing comments regarding the case that have been made by LE in multiple jurisdictions.

Right now IMO there is uncertainty as to Chad and Lori status with the LDS Church. It also seems clear that the Chad views are not in alignment with the LDS beliefs and doctrine (per many comments made here on WS and elsewhere by LDS faithful). Why would the LDS Church not just issue a formal statement on the matter as absent a statement it appears that the LDS Church is supporting Chad Daybell and his beliefs/doctrine? Is the LDS Church sending the 'hidden' message to its members, in not issuing a statement, that its OK for LDS Church members to harbor Chad and Julie from LE and that the Chad and Julie decision to effectively declare JJ and Tylee 'dead' by virtue of Chad saying to LE that "Lori has no minor children" is acceptable to the LDS Church?

When the ex-communication of Julie Rowe happened it was very clear that the status change occurred IMO. I'm not understanding why we aren't seeing something similar with Chad and Julie.

MOO

The people who get Ex-Communicated from the LDS church broadcast their matter, the church does not. It would be highly illegal for the church to tell the general public any information regarding Chad Daybell's religious standings. The LDS church has no obligation to tell it's members how to feel about this situation. Julie Rowe definitely was the one to tell everyone of her status change; most who are disillusioned with the church are happy to share with the media in order to draw other people away. If Chad was ex-communicated, he would have been the one to tell the public. I think people in any religion are smart enough - especially in this situation - not to harbor the fugitives. The LDS community are not like the FLDS who live in a community of secrecy and who have been in the news hiding members and being specifically against state laws.

 

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

The incident where Melani was arrested for trespassing in Utah was in MSM here:

"In November, Melani was arrested on suspicion of trespassing on Brandon's parents' property in America Fork, Utah, according to the Utah County Sheriff's Office. She was released from custody the same day."

How a Gilbert drive-by shooting is tied to the Idaho missing children

Can you link to the booking record? Thanks.

Would she have any future court dates with respect to the trespassing charge?

 

[ur_in_a_cult]

It wouldn't just be one cop and from what I have read it is still being investigated, especially since Brandon's attempted shooting, Tammy's death and Alex's death. Do you have anything to back this up?

Also the PAP organization has cut their ties with them AFAIK.

This link shows the PAP statement under number 1 and is also on their website.

Chad Daybell: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

I have C/P the PAP statement below.

"In October, Nancy and I were out of the country for several weeks on a long needed family trip. We were deeply saddened to learn of the sudden death of Tammy Daybell, the wife of Chad Daybell, but could not attend the funeral. We considered Chad Daybell a good friend, but have since learned of things we had no idea about. As many of you know, Chad was a speaker at some of our Preparing A People Events and appeared on several of our “Preparing A People Podcasts”. We also produced a Series for Chad, “Glimpses through the Veil.” We recently learned of Chad’s new marriage to Lori Vallow a couple weeks after Tammy Daybell died. Lor Vallow was a contributor on the “Time to Warrior Up” podcast with Jason Mow and Melanie Gibb. And she also co-hosted the “Feel the Fire” Podcast with Melanie Gibb. We did not know Lori as well as we thought we knew Chad.

In light of current concerning media reports and ongoing criminal investigations regarding the recent death of Lori Vallow’s previous husband in Arizona, and the sudden death of Chad Daybell’s previous wife in Idaho, and with new reports of Lori’s missing children and the death of Lori’s brother-in-law, and the unknown whereabouts of Chad and Lori, we feel it inappropriate to promote any media content that may feature or contain references to either Chad Daybell or Lori Vallow.

Our hearts go out to all Chad and Lori’s family and friends who are now affected by this ongoing confusing tragedy. We pray for the truth of whatever happened to be quickly manifest, and we pray for the safe return of Lori’s 2 beautiful children."

I amended my statement a little further down. x

 

[ur_in_a_cult]

duplicate

 

[squareandrabbet]

I'm convinced their attorney is one of the super secret group, as well. I'm also thinking LE would like to flush them out to slap a boatload of charges on them, including murder. More flies with honey, that approach.

Especially since his statement was so very vague and snide, and said nothing about why the actual children were missing or where they might be!

So I just typed “what will happen September 23rd” on its own into YouTube and received a lot of hits related to the end of the world.

This date - the same date Joshua Vallow was last seen - certainly seems to be significant.

Uh-oh, I don't like that

 

[BigAl16]

So I just typed “what will happen September 23rd” on its own into YouTube and received a lot of hits related to the end of the world.

This date - the same date Joshua Vallow was last seen - certainly seems to be significant.

I just did that in a search engine and got a bunch of stuff regarding the end of the world coming on September 23, 2017. A quick scan of some of them indicated that the 2017 was significant to those who were buying into this because of a very specific and rare alignment of planets that was going to happen that day. 2019 isn't nearly as impressive.

 

[cocomod]

DBM - duplicate post

 

[afitzy]

The people who get Ex-Communicated from the LDS church broadcast their matter, the church does not. It would be highly illegal for the church to tell the general public any information regarding Chad Daybell's religious standings. The LDS church has no obligation to tell it's members how to feel about this situation. Julie Rowe definitely was the one to tell everyone of her status change; most who are disillusioned with the church are happy to share with the media in order to draw other people away. If Chad was ex-communicated, he would have been the one to tell the public. I think people in any religion are smart enough - especially in this situation - not to harbor the fugitives. The LDS community are not like the FLDS who live in a community of secrecy and who have been in the news hiding members and being specifically against state laws.

@cocomod, thanks for this clarification.

But if the LDS Church did decide to denounce Chad Daybell then do you think that this might prompt more cooperation from his 5 children who by all accounts are not cooperating with LE to find their father or the 2 missing children?

I'm thinking also that it might just be a bit awkward for these various Daybell children to attend weekly services given the situation with their father/his new wife and the fact that 2 children are missing (to say nothing of their mother being exhumed etc.)? I'm having a tough time reconciling the choices of the Daybell children (or even Tammy's family whose status regarding assisting the investigation is unknown per MSM) regarding this investigation in the context of their LDS religious beliefs. Maybe the situation of religious beliefs (LDS or otherwise) doesn't enter the picture when making the decision to assist LE? IDK, right and wrong in this case of 2 missing children seems to be fairly clear IMO so to see this playing out this way is hard to understand. IDK.

By all MSM accounts the children of Chad Daybell are all LDS and yet they are choosing it sadly seems to not work with LE to find the 2 missing children and have publicly stated their support of their father via the statement of the atty.

MOO

 

[tresir2012]

4TH DISTRICT CT - AF ROGER W GRIFFIN January 03, 2020 Courtrm 1, 3rd Floor Friday 09:30 AM 1 SENTENCING UTA 191100448

Arrest on page 20.

ETA Now on page 24.

TY for that. I found it and tried to just copy and paste the relevant page but couldn't do that without the whole 131 page document copying. Are you able to isolate that page only and post it?

ETA. No worries indicolite and afitzy have done it already.

 

[afitzy]

TY for that. I found it and tried to just copy and paste the relevant page but couldn't do that without the whole 131 page document copying. Are you able to isolate that page only and post it?

 

[CSIDreamer]

@cocomod, thanks for this clarification.

But if the LDS Church did decide to denounce Chad Daybell then do you think that this might prompt more cooperation from his 5 children who by all accounts are not cooperating with LE to find their father or the 2 missing children?

I'm thinking also that it might just be a bit awkward for these various Daybell children to attend weekly services given the situation with their father/his new wife and the fact that 2 children are missing (to say nothing of their mother being exhumed etc.)? I'm having a tough time reconciling the choices of the Daybell children (or even Tammy's family whose status regarding assisting the investigation is unknown per MSM) regarding this investigation in the context of their LDS religious beliefs. Maybe the situation of religious beliefs (LDS or otherwise) doesn't enter the picture when making the decision to assist LE? IDK, right and wrong in this case of 2 missing children seems to be fairly clear IMO so to see this playing out this way is hard to understand. IDK.

By all MSM accounts the children of Chad Daybell are all LDS and yet they are choosing it sadly seems to not work with LE to find the 2 missing children and have publicly stated their support of their father via the statement of the atty.

MOO

I don't think it's so much church affiliation as it is a question of moral behavior and perceived family loyalty.

I was raised Assembly of God, which I refer to as pretty holy rolling. If my family member in that denomination had pulled a stunt like this I would turn on them like a rattlesnake.

 

[cocomod]

@cocomod, thanks for this clarification.

But if the LDS Church did decide to denounce Chad Daybell then do you think that this might prompt more cooperation from his 5 children who by all accounts are not cooperating with LE to find their father or the 2 missing children?

I'm thinking also that it might just be a bit awkward for these various Daybell children to attend weekly services given the situation with their father/his new wife and the fact that 2 children are missing (to say nothing of their mother being exhumed etc.)? I'm having a tough time reconciling the choices of the Daybell children (or even Tammy's family whose status regarding assisting the investigation is unknown per MSM) regarding this investigation in the context of their LDS religious beliefs. Maybe the situation of religious beliefs (LDS or otherwise) doesn't enter the picture when making the decision to assist LE? IDK, right and wrong in this case of 2 missing children seems to be fairly clear IMO so to see this playing out this way is hard to understand. IDK.

By all MSM accounts the children of Chad Daybell are all LDS and yet they are choosing it sadly seems to not work with LE to find the 2 missing children and have publicly stated their support of their father via the statement of the atty.

MOO

I personally know Tammy's family and they are cooperating (as much as they are asked to) and appalled at what is going on. They were not even informed prior to Tammy's body being exhumed. I will ask them about their children, but from what I understood from before, they are just trying to stay out of the MSM light. I would be EXTREMELY interested to know if they actually communicated with Chad's attorney or if he took some liberties in saying that they support their father.

Also, they may have supported him before they knew all of the "strange" things happening around Chad.

 

[tresir2012]

View attachment 223317

TY also.

Does this refer to a drone maybe? (An unmanned aircraft)

 

[LHS]

An interesting theory that may or may not hold up (MOO).

Mainstream LDS belief is that married couples can be married in the afterlife. That could even be a polygamous situation if a woman (we'll call her Tammy) were to die on Earth and the man get remarried to another woman (I'll let you pick a name for her).

However (this is where your theory may or may not fall apart) this only works if the marriage was what is called a "temple marriage" which, among other things, has to happen in a LDS temple. The temple marriage is for "time and all eternity" whereas the non-temple marriage is just the same as what normal people do and is just for this life on Earth. So, by mainstream LDS belief Chad is married to Tammy in the next life (I believe we know they were married in a temple marriage and think the obit or the stories about them even indicated that it was in the Manti, Utah temple). Or at least Chad and Tammy would be if Chad's reported excommunication (if that really happened) doesn't have an impact on this. (I'm not sure on that, someone else may jump in with more knowledge and let us know.)

While we don't definitively know that Chad and Lori didn't get married in a Mormon temple, I think we're fairly sure of that. So from a mainstream Mormon belief, unless the world lasts long enough for them to be able to essentially do the marriage ceremony again in a temple, they won't be married beyond this life. BUT ... if Chad's having visions he's probably in direct communication with God, just like Joseph Smith allegedly was, and he's in essence a profit (I mean prophet) and can make his own rules. So if he had a vision that temple marriages could be performed in some way outside of a temple due to emergency last days of the last days provisions, then maybe they believe they are married beyond this life.

All of this is pretty wild theory, but IMO, not that much farther out there than mainstream Mormon belief is relative to the thinking of the average random person on the street.

I think we need to be careful not to trash on religions here guys. (re: use of the term profit v. prophet in reference to Joseph Smith. ) The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not on trial here.

1) Chad and Tammy were married in the Manti temple. That much I have confirmed with friends of family who were at the wedding there. They are sealed in that marriage even beyond death (it's eternal in potential vs. till death do us part).

2a) If Chad was excommunicated (and that has been stated in the DM article but not really explained why they think they know that) then his temple ordinances including the sealing for eternity become void. He would have to repent and be re-baptized and have them restored for them to be valid again. This means his marriage then becomes one of this life only until/unless this occurs.

2b) If Chad was not excommunicated then he potentially could have married Lori in the temple, but because of the different rules for men and women in temple sealings, Lori would need to qualify meaning that she would have to have no intact sealings to anyone else, even those who are deceased. If none of her marriages were sealed in the temple, then this is a non-issue. (Men can be sealed in the temple to more than one woman if one of them is deceased, but women may not. For women they must undo the other sealing even if the other husband is deceased, called a cancellation of sealing, and this takes some time to accomplish as it has to be approved through a process in church headquarters)

3) It's pretty safe to assume this marriage was not a temple sealed marriage. If there is nothing standing in the way (meaning both are members in good standing and all other sealings for her cancelled if there were any) then they could have it sealed in the temple later.

This is where the beliefs of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints clarification stands in this particular situation.

 

[afitzy]

I personally know Tammy's family and they are cooperating and appalled at what is going on. I will ask them about their children, but from what I understood from before, they are just trying to stay out of the MSM light. I would be EXTREMELY interested to know if they actually communicated with Chad's attorney or if he took some liberties in saying that they support their father.

Also, they may have supported him before they knew all of the "strange" things happening around Chad.

Thanks for this info as the overall situation is beyond upsetting.

I do think that the statement made by the Chad Daybell atty last week which referenced the Daybell children supporting their father sent a chilling message to all that care about finding the 2 missing children immediately.

Prayers to Tammy's family during this difficult period!

 

[LHS]

I am surprised though that LDS headquarters in SLC, who monitors all kinds of media, wouldn't think it was in their best interest to clarify the membership status of Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow Daybell given the high profile nature of the case and the highly disturbing comments regarding the case that have been made by LE in multiple jurisdictions.

Right now IMO there is uncertainty as to Chad and Lori status with the LDS Church. It also seems clear that the Chad views are not in alignment with the LDS beliefs and doctrine (per many comments made here on WS and elsewhere by LDS faithful). Why would the LDS Church not just issue a formal statement on the matter as absent a statement it appears that the LDS Church is supporting Chad Daybell and his beliefs/doctrine? Is the LDS Church sending the 'hidden' message to its members, in not issuing a statement, that its OK for LDS Church members to harbor Chad and Julie from LE and that the Chad and Julie decision to effectively declare JJ and Tylee 'dead' by virtue of Chad saying to LE that "Lori has no minor children" is acceptable to the LDS Church?

When the ex-communication of Julie Rowe happened it was very clear that the status change occurred IMO. I'm not understanding why we aren't seeing something similar with Chad and Julie.

MOO

You are not seeing it because the church does not discuss confidential matters such as these due to clergy privilege. However, if the individual themselves has brought it out into the public, an the church needs to correct information - they do. That is why you sometimes hear things that they respond to. Unless Chad himself decides to come out and discuss this, you won't hear them confirm or deny this as they do not believe it has any legal standing whatsoever.

 

[LHS]

Do we have any idea of how much money could have been generated by this 'paywall AVOW business'? How much would a subscription have cost? I've been searching on wayback and couldn't figure this out unfortunately.

The AVOW folks have been quite cagey about the entire situation IMO and removed all the Chad and Lori podcasts and issued a statement on the matter as well. But, I do wonder if LE knows how many people might be involved in the 'paywall AVOW business' as this list of people might just who could perhaps be sheltering Chad and Lori from LE and stopping LE from getting answers about what is really important which is the status of JJ and Tylee IMO.

MOO

Please also keep in mind that AVOW and Preparing a People are NOT the same organizations. I have not seen AVOW give a statement, but I have seen PAP do so. AVOW had forums and paywalls, and PAP did conferences open to the public as well as public podcasts, they are quite different in nature, and not run by the same people.

 

[Mentalheadslap2018]

Re: all these quick marriages..

Can someone knowledgable maybe provide some commentary on the implication of marriage an the afterlife to LDS? I realize this group did not completely follow mainstream LDS ideas but I'd still like to understand better.

My concern is that all this rearranging of relationships might be related to this group believing the end time is imminent and preparing. That wod not necessarily mean anything dire for the kids. Everyone could just be hunkered down in a bunker somewhere waiting safely.

QUOTE="ur_in_a_cult, post: 15683644, member: 202040"]Given that the cop who essentially looked the other way when Alex Cox killed Charles Vellow was part of their end time preppers group, it's certainly not a stretch that the lawyer would be as well.[/QUOTE]

As an LDS person, I do not need the LDS church to tell me not to engage in illegal activity, I and the people that I know can most certainly figure that out for ourselves. Chad and Lori are in a fringe group, if they're getting help it's from those people. Everyone I know has been able to figure out for themselves that some very weird stuff is going on without the Church needing to make a formal statement. MOO

Quick general question for anyone with LDS knowledge: is there a significance when a female reaches the age of 14 in the LDS religion? Lori had made a comment on one of Tylee's SM accounts for her 14th birthday, that Tylee was 'all grown up'. That age has come up a couple of times so I'm just curious. TIA.

 

[Steelslady]

Totally agree..I am sure that us in the Mainstream LDS membership see this for what it is.. 2 children are missing and we would be the first people putting on coats gloves and boots out looking for them if they would tell us where to go.

I have absolutely no doubts what so ever that you would all be out there searching for them. There's a lot of wonderful people that belong to LDS- my aunt married Bishop and they were wonderful folks- miss them dearly. I never got a chance to go to their church unfortunately, but they were deeply religious and very caring, giving, and loving. This is in no way a reflection on any LDS members or the church itself.

These are just evil and sick people who are using religion to hide behind their schemes. We've seen enough sickos do this in many religions- they twist it into something it is not, they express intentions that are not followed by that religion, and sadly, they do manage to find a few desperate and naive followers to stroke their egos while they claim to be something that they are not.

 

[LHS]

QUOTE="ur_in_a_cult, post: 15683644, member: 202040"]Given that the cop who essentially looked the other way when Alex Cox killed Charles Vellow was part of their end time preppers group, it's certainly not a stretch that the lawyer would be as well.

Quick general question for anyone with LDS knowledge: is there a significance when a female reaches the age of 14 in the LDS religion? Lori had made a comment on one of Tylee's SM accounts for her 14th birthday, that Tylee was 'all grown up'. That age has come up a couple of times so I'm just curious. TIA.[/QUOTE]

Not really. A girl or boy who reaches that age hits the mid level of the youth programs, but that's really it. Frequently they are about to go to high school. They can attend church dances at that point - but nothing significant with that age.