Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #6

[Trask]

It just seems incredulous to me that AZ police bought, or couldn't (or didn't)
through the course of their investigation, refute, the AC self-defense claim in the shooting of CV. This,

despite there apparently being no adult witness present other than Lori. I have yet to see any absolute proof that the children were eye witnesses to the shooting. Unless they were actual eye witnesses, they would not have been able to absolutely confirm Lori and Alex's version of events. Granted, they might not have been able to absolutely dispute it (say if they'd been out front), but they would not have been able to absolutely confirm it, and,

despite AC having been previously arrested, convicted, and incarcerated for violently assaulting one of Lori's previous husbands (using a stun gun twice on JR, breaking his ribs, and threatening his life), and,

despite numerous claims made by CV to his attorney in Jan '19 in preparation for the Feb '19 divorce filing that Lori was unstable, that Lori had said she was a translated being who could not taste death, that Lori had threatened to murder CV, that Lori thought CV (or his body?) was actually some other person named Nick Schneider who had killed CV and taken over his identity, that Lori had said that she had an angel who would help her dispose of CV's body, and that Lori had threatened to ruin CV financially (which would seem unnecessary if CV were in fact Nick.., but I digress), and,

despite CV's Feb '19 filing / attempt to have Lori held and evaluated at a psych hospital for at least 72 hours (btw, why, after being contacted by staff at the psych hospital, were Gilbert, AZ police unable to bring Lori in for the hold and evaluation?), and,

despite in Feb '19 (while reportedly fearing for his life) CV's filing of a protective order against Lori (another "btw": why was this order not served by LE? apparently "lawyers tried to find her"..), and,

despite CV in Feb '19 stating (in that same protective order) that "I want to make sure that everyone knows that if something happens to me, Lori & Alex did it"

Really?

And given the above, wouldn't ANY witness account of the incident given by Alex, Lori, or her children be viewed with some degree of suspicion? There certainly were reasons to suspect that AC and Lori might've lied. There certainly were reasons to suspect that AC and Lori might've attempted to influence the children's statements (if they were even sought?).

If I understand correctly, AZ police in effect closed the investigation (I guess by simply not disputing the self defense claim), but have now re-opened it. When did they close the investigation? Did they decide to not dispute the claim, or did they not really investigate the claim? Idk..maybe CV's personality and credibility did play a role in their decision. Nobody's saying.

But if their earlier investigation had perhaps been haphazard or less than thorough (I'm sure like many PD's they have limited resources), what incentive would they now have to reinvestigate the incident and possibly arrive at a different conclusion?

LE said as recently as last week that they were still looking at this as a self-defense case which took me by surprise.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Thank you for the help!

Can you tell when it ended? I can’t.

I just see one active?





Name: VALLOW L CHARLES License#: 0E47310
Non-Res Insurance Producer
License type: Accident and Health Status:
Inactive Status Date:
06/30/2006 Expiration Date:
06/30/2006
Non-Res Insurance Producer
License type: Life-Only Status:
Active Status Date:
05/31/2016 Expiration Date:
05/31/2020

In my results I see two links with the same number that go to the same page. I don't know California insurance agent registration laws to know why there would be two results to the same license.

 

[tresir2012]

I don’t think the LE personnel “investigating” CV’s death ever raised a flag of concern. Timing is more consistent w/ID LE being alerted by those investigating the shots fired at BB.

As posted earlier in this thread, LE issued a recent statement still contending AC killed CV in self defense. The go on to say the case is only still open because the missing kids. What with BB’s investigators actually doing their job and all, IMO CV’s investigators have basically admitted they’d close the case now but don’t want to look bad. I don’t think they are doing any additional investigation, nor will they unless some other agency insists.

MOO

I agree. The fact of AC's death has made any reinvestigation even less likely IMO. The exact cause of death of both AC and TD may perhaps change that though if autopsies reveal reasons other than natural causes.

 

[diggndeeperstill]

In my results I see two links with the same number that go to the same page. I don't know California insurance agent registration laws to know why there would be two results to the same license.

Yes, I see that too. I just see one as inactive since 2006.

 

[tresir2012]

I don’t think the LE personnel “investigating” CV’s death ever raised a flag of concern. Timing is more consistent w/ID LE being alerted by those investigating the shots fired at BB.

As posted earlier in this thread, LE issued a recent statement still contending AC killed CV in self defense. The go on to say the case is only still open because the missing kids. What with BB’s investigators actually doing their job and all, IMO CV’s investigators have basically admitted they’d close the case now but don’t want to look bad. I don’t think they are doing any additional investigation, nor will they unless some other agency insists.

MOO

I agree. The fact of AC's death has made any reinvestigation even less likely IMO. The exact cause of death of both AC and TD may perhaps change that though if autopsies reveal reasons other than natural causes.

 

[arizonamomoffour]

It just seems incredulous to me that AZ police bought, or couldn't (or didn't)
through the course of their investigation, refute, the AC self-defense claim in the shooting of CV. This,

despite there apparently being no adult witness present other than Lori. I have yet to see any absolute proof that the children were eye witnesses to the shooting. Unless they were actual eye witnesses, they would not have been able to absolutely confirm Lori and Alex's version of events. Granted, they might not have been able to absolutely dispute it (say if they'd been out front), but they would not have been able to absolutely confirm it, and,

despite AC having been previously arrested, convicted, and incarcerated for violently assaulting one of Lori's previous husbands (using a stun gun twice on JR, breaking his ribs, and threatening his life), and,

despite numerous claims made by CV to his attorney in Jan '19 in preparation for the Feb '19 divorce filing that Lori was unstable, that Lori had said she was a translated being who could not taste death, that Lori had threatened to murder CV, that Lori thought CV (or his body?) was actually some other person named Nick Schneider who had killed CV and taken over his identity, that Lori had said that she had an angel who would help her dispose of CV's body, and that Lori had threatened to ruin CV financially (which would seem unnecessary if CV were in fact Nick.., but I digress), and,

despite CV's Feb '19 filing / attempt to have Lori held and evaluated at a psych hospital for at least 72 hours (btw, why, after being contacted by staff at the psych hospital, were Gilbert, AZ police unable to bring Lori in for the hold and evaluation?), and,

despite in Feb '19 (while reportedly fearing for his life) CV's filing of a protective order against Lori (another "btw": why was this order not served by LE? apparently "lawyers tried to find her"..), and,

despite CV in Feb '19 stating (in that same protective order) that "I want to make sure that everyone knows that if something happens to me, Lori & Alex did it"

Really?

And given the above, wouldn't ANY witness account of the incident given by Alex, Lori, or her children be viewed with some degree of suspicion? There certainly were reasons to suspect that AC and Lori might've lied. There certainly were reasons to suspect that AC and Lori might've attempted to influence the children's statements (if they were even sought?).

If I understand correctly, AZ police in effect closed the investigation (I guess by simply not disputing the self defense claim), but have now re-opened it. When did they close the investigation? Did they decide to not dispute the claim, or did they not really investigate the claim? Idk..maybe CV's personality and credibility did play a role in their decision. Nobody's saying.

But if their earlier investigation had perhaps been haphazard or less than thorough (I'm sure like many PD's they have limited resources), what incentive would they now have to reinvestigate the incident and possibly arrive at a different conclusion?

I'm thinking they didn't have enough yet for an arrest, so letting the potential suspects feel "safe" until they were ready? Chandler PD, is pretty good. MOO (I've lived here 3 decades and Chandler has grown exponentially).

 

[snoflake20]

LE said as recently as last week that they were still looking at this as a self-defense case which took me by surprise.

Someone mentioned this already, but maybe we need to read the LE statements as messages to Lori and Chad and not to the public. What they say and how they say it seems strategic? Especially since Lori and Chad have a lawyer. MOO

 

[tresir2012]

Because when a homicide occurs, it's a good idea to do a basic investigation, which would include at a bare minimum court and arrest records of the involved parties. Moo.

Did the divorce papers actually make it to court though if CV did not proceed with it. Did the lawyer provide those papers to LE in July after CV's death for example? Why didnt LE act on the 72 hour medical hold for LV. We don't know about that do we?

 

[RHarrison]

Yeah, wouldn’t it be nice to hear from the kids exactly how they thought this went down....

Sometimes some people drink too much alcohol they can become mean, as reported however he was gonna pick up JJ and take him back to the hotel for a nice breakfast. I just don’t see him walking into the house with a baseball bat, sorry and moo

 

[Colorado303]

I don't know if this is visible (not great a posting screenshots ) nor do I know if it's been shared already. But after questioning and releasing Lori and Alex, the case (of Charles Vallow's shooting) was sent to the county attorney. The county attorney has an office full of people to investigate... no? I guess I just didn't realize it automatically went to the DA. Tyler said the case would be sent to the DA for review. This case was not just left in the hands of police detectives.

View attachment 225414

The case wasn’t just left in the hands of police detectives, but they controlled the content and tone of materials provided to DA, including a recommendation. Hard to imagine the DA deciding to further investigate and prosecute a self-defense DV case if police concluded it was a self-defense and advised against prosecution.

I don’t have proof that’s what case info sent to DA contained. But everything we know is consistent w/that scenario and that scenario only.

I don’t blame the DA. I do blame the officers/detectives investigating the case. I blame them very much.

MOO

 

[FindingJoLee]

Had CV followed through on the divorce, Lori would've lost out on a lot. I think given the circumstances, the most she would've gotten with JJ is supervised visitation.

I wonder what really made CV change his mind on filing.

My first thought: Charles was married to Lori when her brother assaulted Joe at the courthouse. Charles was up close and personal witness to an ugly, ugly custody battle with Joe....he's not blind to what can happen to the father of her children/her ex-husband. Fear is powerful. Maybe he stepped back to reassess his plan to divorce her....

Turns out any fear he had was not misplaced.

 

[fred&edna]

The case wasn’t just left in the hands of police detectives, but they controlled the content and tone of materials provided to DA, including a recommendation. Hard to imagine the DA deciding to further investigate and prosecute a self-defense DV case if police concluded it was a self-defense and advised against prosecution.

I don’t have proof that’s what case info sent to DA contained. But everything we know is consistent w/that scenario and that scenario only.

I don’t blame the DA. I do blame the officers/detectives investigating the case. I blame them very much.

MOO

Okay. I can agree with most of your thoughts. I'm still gonna reserve the right to blame the DA's office, too... at least a little blame

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

Did the divorce papers actually make it to court though if CV did not proceed with it. Did the lawyer provide those papers to LE in July after CV's death for example? Why didnt LE act on the 72 hour medical hold for LV. We don't know about that do we?

Yes, the papers were filed in court, links have already been provided but here it is again.

Family Court Case Information - Case History
The documents shown can be requested, usually just a cost per page. LE probably has those fees waived.
This article explains a little more about her evading the 72 hour hold:
Lawyers: Charles Vallow predicted who would be responsible for his death
"The divorce papers also show Charles tried to get Lori mental health care help. Lori refused his requests to see a doctor, court documents said. She didn’t want doctors to discover she was a translated being. Charles then went on to petition Community Bridges Healthcare for a 72-hour hold and evaluation of Lori. He set up a time for her to arrive at the care center, but Lori never showed up.

“Community Bridges then informed (Charles) that based on the information he provided them, they would be issuing a 72 hour involuntary hold petition to Gilbert Police instructing the police department to take (Lori) into custody and transport her to Community Bridges if she made any contact with the police,” the document stated.
It appears Lori never did contact police and was never taken to Community Bridges.
The court documents make clear that it was not just his own safety Charles feared was at stake. Charles requested his request for temporary custody be accelerated through the court.
“Father is greatly concerned for Mother’s well-being and the minor child’s best interests. Father is worried that the child will be affected by Mother’s mental instability if Mother continues to go without seeking professional help.”
So all of the information they needed was available. They just didn't do the work. Moo

 

[jjenny]

I'm thinking they didn't have enough yet for an arrest, so letting the potential suspects feel "safe" until they were ready? Chandler PD, is pretty good. MOO (I've lived here 3 decades and Chandler has grown exponentially).

Well, you can't arrest a dead person, which would be one of the potential suspects (Alex). And since Alex is now dead, and children are missing, I fail to see how they could possibly get enough for an arrest of Lori-ever.

 

[fred&edna]

LE doesn't believe Lori and Chad are in Idaho. I wish we knew where they thought they "might be".

 

[Knox]

In my results I see two links with the same number that go to the same page. I don't know California insurance agent registration laws to know why there would be two results to the same license.

Non-Res Insurance Producer
License type: Accident and Health Status:
Inactive Status Date:
06/30/2006 Expiration Date: 06/30/2006

Non-Res Insurance Producer
License type: Life-Only Status:
Active Status Date:
05/31/2016 Expiration Date: 05/31/2020

Two types of Insurance he was licensed to sell

• Accident & Health-Expired 6/30/2006
• Life Only-Status - Expires on 5/31/2020

 

[RexburgSleuth]

Did the family from Utah come up to Idaho? Was there a full funeral service in the church in Idaho? Did the Relief Society think it was weird not doing a lunch? You mean there was just a service in the cemetery?

Obituary for Tamara Michelle Daybell at Flamm Funeral Home
The service in Idaho was (Oct 23) the day after Tammy's interment (Oct 22) in the cemetery Springville, UT. There was a viewing in Utah the night before. I did not see family from Utah that I am aware of. I'm not aware of a lunch in Utah, but there could have been, most likely was one. Again, I may be the only one who thought it was weird to do funeral and interment there and then have a short memorial service here. MOO: I would have held a viewing and funeral services in Idaho first for those who needed closure at casket-side, then do the same in Utah for those who knew her there. I've seen that done multiple times. It also allows for distant relatives to travel as needed. A funeral isn't for the deceased, but for all those who need to grieve the loss. My sense is that I'm not alone in thinking it was weird to be so fast.

 

[tresir2012]

I don't know if this is visible (not great a posting screenshots ) nor do I know if it's been shared already. But after questioning and releasing Lori and Alex, the case (of Charles Vallow's shooting) was sent to the county attorney. The county attorney has an office full of people to investigate... no? I guess I just didn't realize it automatically went to the DA. Tyler said the case would be sent to the DA for review. This case was not just left in the hands of police detectives.

View attachment 225414

Here is a link to what I think is the same (or similar) article.

Fatal shootings keep Chandler police busy

"Meanwhile, no charges have been filed in the fatal shooting of a man inside the home of a gated Ocotillo community.

Around 8:30 a.m. July 11, police went to a home in the 5500 block of South Four Peaks Place and found 62-year-old Charles Vallow of Texas with two gunshot wounds to his chest.

Police say Vallow went to the residence, where his estranged wife lives with their son and her daughter, to pick up his son. While at the home, Vallow and his wife engaged in an argument.

Vallow’s brother-in-law was also in the residence. Fearing the argument would elevate to a physical altercation between Vallow and his estranged wife, the brother-in-law intervened on behalf of his sister. Soon, Vallow and his brother-in-law were in a physical fight, Tyler said.

“At one point during the fight, Vallow struck his brother-in-law in the head with a baseball bat,” Tyler reported. “Soon after, Vallow was shot by his brother-in-law. After he shot Vallow, the brother-in-law called 911 and performed CPR on Vallow until emergency medical personnel arrived on-scene.”

Vallow’s wife and her brother – whom police did not identify – were released after questioning and Tyler said the case would be sent to the county attorney for review."

 

[jjenny]

So in the same article, the guy who claimed he accidentally shot his wife (in Chandler) got arrested. Why didn't they pat that one on the back and said "accidents happen, better luck next time?"

 

[snoflake20]

Well, you can't arrest a dead person, which would be one of the potential suspects (Alex). And since Alex is now dead, and children are missing, I fail to see how they could possibly get enough for an arrest of Lori-ever.

If Tammy was murdered and if Chad was apart of the planning, Chad could roll on Lori and vice versa. MOO