Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #8

[BigAl16]

She is now the wife of CD so she will be presumably be living based on his book and speech earnings too now. That would be their only income I guess. His books are still on Amazon ATM.

I took a quick look at a few of his books early on in this and based on the sales rank of those I checked if he's getting enough from Amazon to buy more than one or two meals a month, I'd be amazed.

 

[Jethro4WS]

I considered doing that. But removing the company's name means that there cannot be a meaningful "source" included for those dates and locations. And we need sources here on WS. I considered putting something generic such as "online advertisements" or "media producing website" but I think that would only lead to questions from others about what the source means...And if we have to answer those questions it defeats the purpose of removing the name. I think we should stop discussing the media website altogether. MOO.

I did manage to keep in a couple events that Chad mentions on his blog, since the source for those is his blog and not the media-website-we-are-no-longer-naming-here. And there is at least one conference that Chad did that MSM posted an article about with an interview from a conference attendee: Police issue search warrant at Chad Daybell's home
The timeline also still mentions that Lori went to a conference in Idaho as that has been in MSM and legal documents. Find more MSM sources (not social media/blogs/podcast websites) for any of Chad and Lori's events that are not in the timeline anymore and I will put those events back in (without mention of the media company). MOO.

Some of the events might be found on other sources like some of the event sites. I know I came across the one in Boise/Middleton on the events under KTVB channel 7. It may just take a little effort to go through some known event sites where you have to search on each one (or even a site like Meet Up) to find alternative sources of that information.

 

[Ohmeohmy]

Lori was never a speaker, from anything I've found. She may have been very minimally paid for podcasting. She wrote know books, though some think perhaps Chad was grooming her for such, as he did with other authors he found on AVOW (see Chad's blog).

I feel like in these side cults/fringe beliefs, it's really difficult to parse out what is mental illness and what is strongly-held belief that they keep close to their vest (that may lead to mental illness or be exacerbated by mental illness). Many religious beliefs are crazy/irrational if you look at them objectively, aren't they? It's just that they are collectively more accepted. I'll pick on Christianity: are you mentally ill if you believe Christ appeared on earth as a resurrected being after dying, or that he raised Lazarus from the dead? Or Hinduism: are you mentally ill if you believe in reincarnation? In either case, no, you are not automatically considered mentally ill. You are considered a believer. Those not of your belief system may think you are irrational and deceived, but you aren't thrown in an asylum for it. Do we consider the figure known as Jesus Christ to be mentally ill because he said he was the son of God? Some do, but a billion+ don't. Joseph Smith, because he said he had a vision of God, found and translated gold plates? Again, many do think he was mentally ill, but millions don't, and we don't put every LDS person in a mental health facility for believing.

The people who believe these fringe Mormon beliefs call the mainstream Mormon population "asleep," while those who believe are "awake." They know not to share their crazy-sounding beliefs too openly, unless they are in their safe circles. In criticism of Mormonism, there is a term called "lying for the Lord." This type of selective theocratic ethics is common to the fringe-believers and/or preppers. They operate among their wards, hold callings, rarely speak up about their beliefs, or couch them differently when they do. With the preppers, sometimes it's because they don't want people to realize they have been hoarding guns, food, resources--because they think they will then be targeted by looters when the SHTF (s*** hits the fan, as they call it).

In my research in this case, I found in inactive prepper forum that appears to have been private, in operation from 2016-2017. People's real Facebook or Google+ profiles were visible, and I found one of the participants was an acquaintance of mine from high school. He is a currently-serving LDS bishop (unpaid leader of a ward/congregation of 300-500 people), as he was at the time of his participation on this forum. The things he was saying were *out there*!!! But I bet he only lets slip a little here and there over the pulpit or in his private counsel to people. Yuck!

Anyway, most any AVOW end-timer/fringe believer wouldn't tell a mental health practitioner about the things they believe, and Lori is no different. Narcissists are also well-practiced in hiding their personality disorder from strangers--and often from themselves.

MOO
Totally agree..

 

[UnknownSleuth]

MOO It was to be 111 degrees . It was morning and Tylee was told to get JJ and get in the car fast. I would also think if Charles is there to take JJ to school, that car might be still running in the driveway to keep it cool.We do this here in AZ a lot so you dont have hot sick kids in the backseat. This could be how Lori is able to have the keys to a rental and maybe where Charles wallet is and phone .
https://www.accuweather.com/en/us/chandler/85225/july-weather/326856?year=2019

I, too, speculate that the car was left running in the driveway. Also, I think Tylee is wearing white sandals/flip-flops while standing outside.

On another note, I can't recall what the general consensus was here, but why does everyone automatically assume the pink room was Tylee's? Not all teen girls want a bright pink room. When the police officer checks out the messy blue room, which he seems to think was where Charles was staying, there is a cell phone on the bed. Meanwhile, Alex called 911 from his phone and brought it outside with him.

 

[Gardener1850]

Thank you for a new thread with the updated timeline @JerseyGirl

 

[diggndeeperstill]

Detailed Case Timeline Part III (Update 4)

MISSING: Joshua Jaxon “JJ” Vallow & Tylee Ashlyn Ryan

POI’s: Lori Norene (Cox) Vallow & Chad Guy Daybell

3 Jan 2020 – Lori’s oldest son CR speaks out on Good Morning America saying he has “absolutely no idea” where his siblings are. He says he is in the dark like everyone else and just praying that they are safe somewhere. (GMA Video).

3 Jan 2020 – FBI and local LE search the Daybell’s home at 202 North 1900 East, Rexburg, ID. Fremont Co Sheriff Len Humphries says they have “sufficient probable cause to get a search warrant for the home. Officers are searching for forensic evidence such as blood or chemicals, which might shed some light on the Daybell case.” (East Idaho News).

3 Jan 2020 - Officers spend time in the Daybell home and search a shed on the property. At one point, they used metal detectors, probes and rakes to go over several portions of the yard. More than 43 items were collected from the home, including “computers, cell phones, journals, documents and medications," which have been sent to forensic experts for examination. (East Idaho News. Post Register).

3 Jan 2020 - FBI spokeswoman Sandra Yi Barker confirms that the FBI is assisting with the case. “We were contacted by Rexburg Police on Nov. 27,” Barker said. “I won’t get into details but we are offering investigative, forensic and technical assistance in Idaho and Utah. Today, members of our Evidence Response Team are in Rexburg assisting with evidence collection. Our victim specialist has also been made available to the families of Joshua Vallow and Tylee Ryan.”

3 Jan 2020 - LE concluded the search at the Daybell property. Detectives wrapped up at the home and finished serving the search warrant Fri evening. They released the home to Chad Daybell's adult children, who Sheriff Humphries said currently live in the house. The sheriff would not specify what was found in the search, but described it as “evidence” and “primarily about Tammy." “The evidence collected today will be sent off for examination by experts,” said Sheriff Len Humphries of Fremont County, Idaho, adding it could take months to process.
(KMVT News, Fox13 Salt Lake City).

3 Jan 2020 - Sheriff Len Humphries says they believe the death of Tammy is related to the missing children. "Those are the two pieces of this," he said. "And how they're related we're not quite sure, but we do believe they are related." He said Chad and Lori refuse to speak to law enforcement and have left the state. He said a lawyer reached out to them weeks ago, saying he was the point of contact for the couple. "We do think they've left Idaho," Sheriff Humphries said. "But that's about all." (Fox 13 Salt Lake City).

3 Jan 2020 - FOX 10 Phoenix releases disturbing court paperwork from Feb 2019 when CV initially filed for divorce from Lori. Charles eventually dropped the divorce case in March 2019; In the divorce documents it says Lori claimed she was married to the Book of Mormon prophet Moroni and that she had lived multiple past lives on different planets. Lori also believes she was married to James the Just and was Mary French in the 1800’s, the grandmother of Joseph Smith, Jr. She also claims to be “a translated being” that cannot die and that she was sent to lead the 144,000 into the new millennium.

3 Jan 2020 – Fox 10 Phoenix interviews CV’s older son on the phone; he asks his name not to be published and says, "I'm terrified for JJ. I’m terrified for Tylee," "I’m terrified for everyone surrounding them and their safety. I’m terrified for my family’s safety."

4 Jan 2020 – A neighbor of Lori in Rexburg, SB, speaks to Fox13 Salt Lake City. "It's crazy. Just baffling," JJ, often played with SB’s kids. A couple weeks into the school year, he said he learned JJ was moving. "What we were told... he was going to move with his grandmother, go visit," Rexburg Police have since said that didn't happen (Fox13 Salt Lake City, Local News 8).

5 Jan 2020 – CV’s sister, KW & her husband LW flew from LA to ID to meet with Rexburg PD & FBI to discuss disappearance of JJ & Tylee. KW say she loved Lori “as a sister,” but later suspected Lori and Chad were having an affair based on emails exchanged between the two. After Lori met Chad, KW says she started noticing changes in Lori’s behavior. KW says the final in-person conversation she had with Lori was in 2018, in a car on the way to the airport.
KW believes Lori & Chad may have taken JJ and Tylee because they were witnesses to the shooting of CV.
“I don’t have any expectations. I’ve never done this before. I have no idea. I just feel like I need to be in Idaho,”
“I’d love (Chad and Lori) to be arrested. Have her in one room and Chad in the other? Absolutely.”
“Charles told me he had recordings of her. He said, ‘Nobody will believe me,’ and he recorded her one night,”
“Even though it’s deleted, nothing is ever deleted electronically or whatever. However that is … for her to say she’s a translated being and she is reincarnated? That is scary!” -KW (KSTU; East Idaho News)

5 Jan 2020 – Lori’s oldest son, CR, makes a youtube video speaking directly to Lori and asking her to “do the right thing”; "Mom, I want to talk to you like I'm sitting across the room from you," CR said, "You have the power to end this"; CR also asks Lori to let Tylee & JJ Facetime with him so he can see that they are ok. (Fox13 Salt lake City)

5 Jan 2020 –Lori’s former property manager, JP, writes a fb post saying he asked Lori to move out by Aug 31, 2019; JP was disturbed by details surrounding CV’s July 11, 2019 death at the Chandler, AZ rental house managed by JP. JP wrote that on the same day CV died Lori texted him, “we are ok, Ill explain later,” when he texted her wondering why police were at the house. JP also wrote that Lori threw a pool party later that afternoon:
“That day the neighbors reported a pool party at the house, the same day Charles was murdered, with loud music and lots of people swimming. Neighbors also reported Alex was staying at the house for several days following the shooting even though he lived in the same area. I spoke with Lori several times days following the shooting and she never sounded shocked, sad or heartbroken, as you would think a bride would be watching her husband die,” (Post Register).

6 Jan 2020 – Sheriff Len Humphries gives interviews about the case. He reveals Tammy may have been poisoned but says tests won't be completed for at least another two weeks. “We're looking for poison, but we are just having to wait for lab results,” Humphries said, “You could say we are in a sort of holding pattern right now.”
More quotes from Sheriff Humphries:
“From an investigation point of view this is a disaster,”
“There are multiple agencies involved — us, Rexburg police, the FBI, as well as police departments in Arizona.”
“There are people who have died strangely in several places, and two kids that we have absolutely no idea where they are.”
“Add to that, the mother is known to have told family members that her daughter died a year ago, which we know is not true.”
”And then she claimed that the 17-year-old had run off with the 7-year-old and didn't say anything to authorities.”
“What kind of parent doesn't help try to find their own kids when they are missing?”
Humphries also said he believes Chad and Lori have left Idaho but are still in the United States (East Idaho News, Daily Mail).

6 Jan 2020 - Tylee’s AZ friend shares the last text she received from Tylee’s phone was on Oct. 25 at 11:14 AM. The friend isn’t sure if Tylee sent the text. The friend texted Tylee on Oct. 19 to say she missed her and had been thinking about her. 6 days later a reply text said, “hi. miss you guys too ...luv ya.” The friend says she didn’t think the text sounded like Tylee. “She spelled out her words for the most part,” “Plus, she would have texted more if I reached out.” “When she lived here, she responded immediately,” the friend said, “And when she moved, it slowly decreased in response time.”
The friend also shares: Tylee had originally planned to stay in AZ, but decided to go to ID for JJ’s sake. Tylee had her GED, so she did not go to HS in ID. Tylee had never mentioned her mother’s religious beliefs to her friend. Tylee said they were moving because Lori got a job in ID. “Apparently that was false,” the friend said. (Post Register).

6 Jan 2020 - Ellsworth Family Law releases statement saying Charles Vallow “expressed genuine fear for his life and under our advice obtained an Order of Protection against Lori Vallow” in early 2019 (Fox10 Phoenix; Justin Lum Fox 10 on Twitter ).

7 Jan 2020 – JJ’s grandparents, KW & LW, hold a press conference in Idaho. They are offering a $20,000 reward for information leading to the children’s whereabouts. They spent the weekend meeting with Rexburg PD & the FBI. JJ loves to swim and is hardly afraid of anything in life. Tylee is a typical teenage girl who graduated early from HS and has a close group of friends. KW & LW spoke with JJ several times a week and often those conversations were short, but it wasn’t unusual for JJ to call his grandparents back several times in the same day. Lori never prevented the Woodcocks from talking to or visiting with JJ. During their last 35 sec Facetime with JJ in Aug it appeared someone was monitoring what he said and he didn’t call back after that. They also noticed that JJ’s hair didn’t appear to be as groomed as it had been previously. Lori used to be a cosmetologist and took exceptional care of JJ’s hair. The picture of JJ on the missing poster shows his hair matted and not in it's usual style. KW & LW have launched a Find JJ and Tylee website asking for tips from the public.

Some Quotes from the Jan 7th Presser:
“These are beautiful young children. They’re two extremely intelligent young children and we want them back. We want them back in our family,” -LW

“If there is anything that Lori can come forth with and help us, please do it. She knows how much we love these kids, and we want only the best for them. That’s it. It’s that simple. Please give them back to us.” -LW

“All I want before I go is just to see those children, I just want to hear him beat on the drums, I want to hear him say, ‘Papa, let’s go ride’ or ‘Let’s go to Checkers and let’s go get a hamburger.’ I’m hoping beyond hope that that happens in the near future.” -LW

“Sometimes [JJ] may call and say, ‘Papa!’ and then, he’d just go away. ‘Gotta go, bye!’” -LW

“J.J. is my heart, I’m hoping this will allow one person to simply say ‘I saw (him). I know where he’s at,’ and give us that information, so that we can bring J.J. and Tylee back." -LW

“We want and believe that they are alive, and that’s the reason for the reward,""It’s the reason, we don’t say, the ‘d’ word. We’re not going to because we hope and pray these kids are alive." -LW

“If somebody two years ago would have said ‘This is what’s going to happen with Lori,’ I would have never believed it, Kay would have never believed it. If Kay and I would have had any thought in the future that we were going to be involved in an issue like this, we never would have let J.J. up for adoption. It never would have happened, and now this happened. Lori was a good mother when J.J. was young. You couldn’t ask for a better mother.” -LW

“Lori, you know how much we love J.J. You know my heart beats for him. Kay loves him. All our family loves JJ. Pick up the phone. Call me. Call Kay. If you don’t want to talk to authorities, talk to us." – LW

“If this reward can prompt that, then that’s what I want. They’re good kids. They don’t deserve this. And we as a family don’t deserve it.” -LW

“Please, just let us know where the kids are. It’s not difficult. It would end all of this.” -KW

“We don’t know why we weren’t allowed more access to him, but we reached out constantly in every way – email, voicemail, text, phone call, whatever – and never, ever got a response so that was very concerning to us,” -KW

“It sends chills up our spines,” "That’s just (what) brought it home for us. ‘Oh, my God, this is something really bad.'" -KW, when asked about Lori’s false claims that Tylee died in 2017.

“Charles suspected they were having an affair. He told me about it. He told me what he had that made him think that. He was spot on. There were just some things that we discussed, and he showed me (the evidence).” – KW, when asked about Lori and Chad’s relationship.

8 Jan 2020 - The former attorneys of the late Charles Vallow say that CV filed an order of protection against Lori in Feb 2019 and told his attorneys, “Steve, I want to make sure that everyone knows that if something happens to me, Lori & Alex did it.” The lawyers say they could not find Lori in Feb 2019 to serve her with the order of protection papers and they even tried looking for her in Idaho (Fox 10 Phoenix).

8 Jan 2020 – A hotel employee says that she expected CV and JJ to return to the hotel for breakfast on July 11 but instead police came to the hotel and informed her CV was dead (Fox 10 Phoenix).

9 Jan 2020 – JJ’s grandparents KW & LW record a segment with Dr OZ Show (Fox 10 Phoenix).

9, 10, & 11 Jan 2020 – Josh Wilson, Principal of Kennedy Elementary in Rexburg, gives statements to the media: “We truly hope for the safety of everybody involved and hope for a positive outcome”. JW says that Lori unenrolled JJ on Sept 24 & told administrators she planned to homeschool; JW says there was no previous activity that would indicate a need for concern from the school; They have not received a request to send JJ’s records to another school but if Lori is homeschooling, she would not need to notify them; The records would remain with Kennedy Elementary (Fox 13 Phoenix, East Idaho News).

10 Jan 2020 – Chad’s bother, Matt, releases a statement pleading for Chad to come forward and cooperate with the investigation. Matt also says he has not been close to Chad since childhood, does not know any more info than the media and asks for privacy for himself, his wife and children (East Idaho News).

10 Jan 2020 – A former neighbor of Alex in San Tan Valley, AZ says that about a year ago he saw Lori and AC arguing loudly in the street (Daily Mail).

11 Jan 2020 – Fox10 Phoenix publishes affidavit of warrant for AC’s 2007 arrest in Austin, Texas. The docs describe how AC tased Tylee’s dad JR twice & “made a threat to kill him” after JR had a custody visit with Tylee. AC plead guilty to aggravated assault in the second degree and served 90 days in jail.

11 Jan 2020 - KD, a former producer for a radio show Alex was featured on, shares video of AC doing Looney Tunes impressions from 2016 and says, "In all impressions, he was a good looking funny guy and like I said, charming" (Fox 10 Phoenix).

12 Jan 2020 - The A&E network series “Live P.D.” features JJ’s grandparents KW & LW asking for help finding the missing children.

13 Jan 2020 – The police report, 911 call and body camera footage from the July 11, 2019 shooting death of Charles Vallow is released by Fox10 Phoenix.

14 Jan 2020 – The Dr OZ show airs an interview with JJ’s Grandmother KW about the missing children (Fox10 Phoenix).

15 Jan 2020 - Fox10 Phoenix obtains and publishes copies of Gilbert PD reports from Jan 31, 2019. The reports detail a complaint Lori made against CV for taking her purse out of her car at JJ’s school. Also detailed are efforts by CV to get Lori picked up for an involuntarily 72 hour hold with psych evaluation. Lori does not file any charges against CV and police allow her to go to the psych eval on her own, rather than being transported. The report says police followed up and found that Lori voluntarily checked in to Community Bridges and was discharged a few hours later.

15 Jan 2020 – Fox10 Phoenix obtains and releases body cam video from July 11, 2019 of Lori and Tylee’s interview with a LEO outside the home where CV was shot to death. Lori says CV lives in Houston and that she moved into the house about 3 weeks before CV’s death.

22 July 2020 – Lori told CV that she believes July 2020 is the date of the second coming of Christ; In Jan 2019 Lori allegedly threatened to murder CV if he stood in the way of her preparing for this date. “I think it’s July 22, 2020?,” KW said. “I don’t know what’s going to happen July 23, you know. Charles told me. He had recordings of her. He said nobody will believe me, and he recorded her one night.” (Fox10 Phoenix, Divorce records, Click2Houston).

Note: If a specific source is not noted in brackets above, then there are likely multiple news sources reporting the same info. Source Links are located in the Media thread: ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE* NO DISCUSSION

@Gardener1850 You are truly awesome for doing this. It is a huge amount of work and your detail and organization is phenomenal. I know it helps not only us but many outside of here that never even post. What a great thing. I pray it helps bring these kids home and bring justice to many.

 

[Gardener1850]

Does anyone have any ideas on what Lori may have done with Charles property when she cleaned out the house and changed the locks on him at the end of January 2019? I was thinking about it and wondering if she sold his things to try to get more money, stored it all somewhere as a ransom, or if she threw it in a dumpster or took it to Goodwill. Or could she have taken the items to some compound to be used as community property by members of her group? She was staying at a hotel and traveling around to various places when she disappeared for 2 months. So she probably wouldn't want to haul all his stuff with her everywhere she went. My first thought is she probably trashed everything just to hurt him. But Charles probably had nice clothes and Lori seems to want money. Then there are also things unaccounted for like JJ's i-pad, Charles' business computer, the dog's service collar, etc. Those things could have value and could have been sold. Tylee had an account on Poshmark which is a website for selling used clothes. But Tylee didn't have any activity there since 2016. Still, could Lori maybe have a Poshmark account too that we haven't found yet? Has anyone tried looking for Lori on other buy and sell sites? If we find her accounts and posts of things she sold we might be able to figure out more places Lori has been recently. And ultimately where Lori and Chad might be hiding. MOO.

 

[Avocado49]

BBM (Bold By Me). I don't think that the police would have wanted Chad to know that they were exhuming Tammy. They didn't even tell Tammy's parents it was happening. However, Chad worked in that cemetery for several years as a sexton. I would not be at all surprised if someone from the cemetery tipped Chad off that his wife's body was being exhumed on Dec 11. Our verified insider from Tammy's family told us that Tammy's body was put back within a day: ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #4
But Tammy's family members heard about the exhumation somehow shortly after it happened (they went to the grave to check) so I believe Chad could have also heard about it happening.

MOO.

oh I forgot about Chad’s cemetery/burial career. I wonder how involved he was in the arrangements in UT, like if he asked for her body to be treated in a way or buried specifically so nothing could be detected...it’s so gruesome. I can’t imagine the life of that doctor who has to pick apart long buried bodies.

 

[Avocado49]

Does anyone have any ideas on what Lori may have done with Charles property when she cleaned out the house and changed the locks on him at the end of January 2019? I was thinking about it and wondering if she sold his things to try to get more money, stored it all somewhere as a ransom, or if she threw it in a dumpster or took it to Goodwill. Or could she have taken the items to some compound to be used as community property by members of her group? She was staying at a hotel and traveling around to various places when she disappeared for 2 months. So she probably wouldn't want to haul all his stuff with her everywhere she went. My first thought is she probably trashed everything just to hurt him. But Charles probably had nice clothes and Lori seems to want money. Then there are also things unaccounted for like JJ's i-pad, Charles' business computer, the dog's service collar, etc. Those things could have value and could have been sold. Tylee had an account on Poshmark which is a website for selling used clothes. But Tylee didn't have any activity there since 2016. Still, could Lori maybe have a Poshmark account too that we haven't found yet? Has anyone tried looking for Lori on other buy and sell sites? If we find her accounts and posts of things she sold we might be able to figure out more places Lori has been recently. And ultimately where Lori and Chad might be hiding. MOO.

I’m thinking there was likely a community swap type thing - I assume she gave all his stuff away.
Also, reports from Alex’s neighbors say there was a ton of stuff in his garage (which he left open for 4 weeks).
I keep thinking about any electronic devices and why they can’t be found. What do you think she did with Charles’ phone, or with Tylee’s devices? The ipad that gets wi-fi, can’t it be traced to some point in time and place? Who has Alex’s phone now? Do you think they destroyed/buried the devices or knew how to wipe them? Lori and Chad gotta at least have a working phone between them...why can’t it be tracked?

 

[Gardener1850]

oh I forgot about Chad’s cemetery/burial career. I wonder how involved he was in the arrangements in UT, like if he asked for her body to be treated in a way or buried specifically so nothing could be detected...it’s so gruesome. I can’t imagine the life of that doctor who has to pick apart long buried bodies.

I don't think there's much Chad could do to mess with Tammy's burial like that. But I have wondered more than once about the missing children and if Chad had knowledge of when graves were being dug in the local cemeteries and the usual procedures there because of his past work as a sexton. Would he know things such as when the sexton took his break and when a freshly dug grave would be left unattended before a funeral? I wonder how difficult it would be for a sexton to sneak a body into the bottom of a freshly dug grave and cover lightly with dirt so that the new casket goes right on top... The victim would never be found unless the casket was exhumed. I wondered about if they looked at that as a possibility when they exhumed Tammy. It's the stuff of nightmares to think about. I hope we have some past cemetery workers reading here that can assure me this could never happen. MOO.

 

[UnknownSleuth]

Does anyone have any ideas on what Lori may have done with Charles property when she cleaned out the house and changed the locks on him at the end of January 2019?

I've wondered the same thing. And also about Charles dropping the divorce petition. Did Lori, perhaps, end up transferring the payroll money back and returning Charles' things? I'm not sure he would have tried to reconcile or dropped the divorce petition without that. When she took the truck, it said she let him know where it was three days later. With the other things and the money, did she give it back to him? Maybe she really did have some leverage over him re. cheating? Maybe they had "both done bad things but let's give it another try."

I've wondered it there were some financial reversals of some sort at the end of 2018-ish? I know it's been said that the Hawaii juice business was a financial drain, but when they came back from Hawaii at the end of 2017 they rented a huge home in Queen Creek, AZ for $7000/month (this address was verified by a family member on FB). The home(s) they rented in Hawaii also had to have cost that much per month or more. But then the rental they had in early 2019 (the one that Lori changed the locks on, etc.) was still a nice home but was much smaller and less lavish, and rented for $2995/month (this address was also verified by a family member on FB).

By early 2019, were finances in such a situation that Lori felt she and/or the kids would get more money through life insurance than through a divorce settlement? Just always considering both Lori's and Charles' reasons for reconciling.

All speculation, MOO.

 

[RexburgSleuth]

...why can’t it be tracked?

Whether or not the authorities know where they are, which it sounds like they do:
“We know that the children are not with Lori and Chad Daybell, and we also have information indicating that Lori knows either the location of the children or what has happened to them,”

Mother of missing kids knows where they are or what happened to them, police say | East Idaho News

But due process requires an actual criminal charge does it not? LE can't just storm in on suspicion without cause. I believe they're awaiting autopsy reports.

 

[Gardener1850]

I've wondered the same thing. And also about Charles dropping the divorce petition. Did Lori, perhaps, end up transferring the payroll money back and returning Charles' things? I'm not sure he would have tried to reconcile or dropped the divorce petition without that. When she took the truck, it said she let him know where it was three days later. With the other things and the money, did she give it back to him? Maybe she really did have some leverage over him re. cheating? Maybe they had "both done bad things but let's give it another try."

I've wondered it there were some financial reversals of some sort at the end of 2018-ish? I know it's been said that the Hawaii juice business was a financial drain, but when they came back from Hawaii at the end of 2017 they rented a huge home in Queen Creek, AZ for $7000/month (this address was verified by a family member on FB). The home(s) they rented in Hawaii also had to have cost that much per month or more. But then the rental they had in early 2019 (the one that Lori changed the locks on, etc.) was still a nice home but was much smaller and less lavish, and rented for $2995/month (this address was also verified by a family member on FB).

By early 2019, were finances in such a situation that Lori felt she and/or the kids would get more money through life insurance than through a divorce settlement? Just always considering both Lori's and Charles' reasons for reconciling.

All speculation, MOO.

There's still a lot of info we don't know. We don't know why/how JJ ended up back with Lori after CV moved JJ to Texas. I have a feeling that CV taking JJ out of the state of AZ may have been a big mistake on his part, even if it looked like Lori was not interested in pursuing custody of JJ at the time he did it. Courts would have looked with favor on Lori, as a mother, if she went to court to say that CV took her son and moved to another state. Lori pulled that same thing with Tylee when they moved to HI and she mostly got away with it, but Joe Ryan also seemingly won many of his petitions for adjustment of child support and custody arrangements. JR had to keep taking Lori to court over and over again, however, to get time with Tylee. Charles had been footing the bill for Lori's custody battles over Tylee for over a decade, so he would know what he was up against. My speculation is that Charles took JJ back to Texas as soon as he could button up the bank accounts and withdraw all financial support of Lori, and then suddenly Lori changed her tune. I think Lori either threatened Charles with years of custody battles because he took JJ out of state OR she showed up in TX and sweet talked him into trying to work things out. My speculation only, of course, since we don't really know what happened between March and June 2019. This was Lori's 4th marriage and Charles' 3rd marriage. I don't think he wanted another divorce. MOO.

 

[mickey2942]

Scary, how children can just go missing, and LEO has zero ability to arrest and question parents regarding their disappearance.

 

[fred&edna]

Some people do things they should not and pretend to be things they are not. And, even when discovered... They seem to come out smelling like a rose and even flourish. Well, until the family bed of roses starts to wilt.

 

[Friday Fan]

There's still a lot of info we don't know. We don't know why/how JJ ended up back with Lori after CV moved JJ to Texas. I have a feeling that CV taking JJ out of the state of AZ may have been a big mistake on his part, even if it looked like Lori was not interested in pursuing custody of JJ at the time he did it. Courts would have looked with favor on Lori, as a mother, if she went to court to say that CV took her son and moved to another state. Lori pulled that same thing with Tylee when they moved to HI and she mostly got away with it, but Joe Ryan also seemingly won many of his petitions for adjustment of child support and custody arrangements. JR had to keep taking Lori to court over and over again, however, to get time with Tylee. Charles had been footing the bill for Lori's custody battles over Tylee for over a decade, so he would know what he was up against. My speculation is that Charles took JJ back to Texas as soon as he could button up the bank accounts and withdraw all financial support of Lori, and then suddenly Lori changed her tune. I think Lori either threatened Charles with years of custody battles because he took JJ out of state OR she showed up in TX and sweet talked him into trying to work things out. My speculation only, of course, since we don't really know what happened between March and June 2019. This was Lori's 4th marriage and Charles' 3rd marriage. I don't think he wanted another divorce. MOO.

You expressed what I've been thinking. He knew Lori would get JJ and a host of other things. I think he did it for JJ...MOO

 

[Bray2020]

I don't believe the speakers don't get paid. They would have to at least get generous expenses if nothing else. MOO.

CD is a writer, he would be looking to gain more readers. Many self published authors are more than willing to do podcasts and events for free, because they reap the benefits later when people buy their books. It's a very common strategy and might be less nefarious than it seems. If a self published author writing in a niche group is able to score opportunities to be in the midst of potential book buyers, the vast majority will accept the invitation without pay.

 

[Colorado303]

Scary, how children can just go missing, and LEO has zero ability to arrest and question parents regarding their disappearance.

Yes. I’m actually confused by it. If a child goes missing are parents never criminally guilty of anything unless it’s proven they sold or murdered the child?

 

[Avocado49]

I don't think there's much Chad could do to mess with Tammy's burial like that. But I have wondered more than once about the missing children and if Chad had knowledge of when graves were being dug in the local cemeteries and the usual procedures there because of his past work as a sexton. Would he know things such as when the sexton took his break and when a freshly dug grave would be left unattended before a funeral? I wonder how difficult it would be for a sexton to sneak a body into the bottom of a freshly dug grave and cover lightly with dirt so that the new casket goes right on top... The victim would never be found unless the casket was exhumed. I wondered about if they looked at that as a possibility when they exhumed Tammy. It's the stuff of nightmares to think about. I hope we have some past cemetery workers reading here that can assure me this could never happen. MOO.

wow. Yeah that is really creepy. (seems a real hassle for Chad and Lori to have to bring the kids’ bodies all the way to Utah to put them under Tammy though). but Chad for sure knows how to bury a body. Ugh.

 

[jjenny]

I, too, speculate that the car was left running in the driveway. Also, I think Tylee is wearing white sandals/flip-flops while standing outside.

On another note, I can't recall what the general consensus was here, but why does everyone automatically assume the pink room was Tylee's? Not all teen girls want a bright pink room. When the police officer checks out the messy blue room, which he seems to think was where Charles was staying, there is a cell phone on the bed. Meanwhile, Alex called 911 from his phone and brought it outside with him.

Charles wasn't staying in the house at all. He was staying in the hotel for a couple of weeks before his death.