IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #7

[justbreathe]

In the US and depending on the State, some jury trials do not need all of the seated jurors to agree, and some jury trials do not use 12 jurors.

But now we are dealing with Puerto Rico and what their civil jury trial laws are.
So yes, I would like to know also, if there will be 12 jurors and if all 12 have to agree for a conviction.

Also in the US, the standard for conviction in a civil trial is less than for a criminal trial.

What's the difference between a civil judgment and a criminal conviction?

"And to convict in the criminal court, the case against the defendant must be proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

In a civil case for wrongful death, on the other hand, the plaintiffs have to prove only that the

defendant ’s intentional and unlawful conduct ( my opinion child endanderment) resulted in the victims ’ deaths.

The burden of proof in the civil case is preponderance of the evidence -- a much lesser burden than is required in a criminal case.

So, while a criminal jury might reasonably fail to find guilt beyond a reasonable doubt and acquit an accused, a civil jury might also reasonably find by a preponderance of the evidence that a defendant ’s unlawful conduct results in civil liability."

The criminal case is being conducted under the jurisdiction of PR.

The civil case is in FL under FL jurisdiction.

 

[Cool Cats]

The criminal case is being conducted under the jurisdiction of PR.

The civil case is in FL under FL jurisdiction.

Thanks, I was getting a bit confused and will go back to research.

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

Plea Deal

From Newsweek:

Speaking outside the court following the status hearing against Anello, Prosecutor Ivette Nieves said they have not formally approached Anello with a deal offer, but have also not rejected the idea.

Grandfather of cruise ship toddler who died after plunging from window rejects plea deal, maintains innocence

 

[justbreathe]

I had the great fun of being sued for 90k in federal court (in a different state) by my stalker, while simultaneously working through the 2nd criminal case of my stalker violating my restraining order.

The criminal conviction came and looked very, very bad re/ his civil case.

The best was when criminal judge in my state put in probation terms no direct contact, and the federal judge called her to say “You can’t say what happens in my courtroom!”

And criminal judge said “And you can’t tell me what to do with the probation of my criminal convict. If he shows up in your court without a civil lawyer it’s a probation violation and he will go to jail.”

Good times, good times.

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

Back to jury crime scene trips and reenactments.

OJ and Phil Spector - the jury went to the crime scene.

In Phil Spector, they sat on the furniture and pretended to be Lana Clarkson. The jury was doing their own reenactments at the house.

Criminal Defense - Jury Trials: Can a jury visit the crime scene, as part of reviewing the evidence in the case? | Los Angeles Criminal Law Blog

Jurors in the Phil Spector murder trial toured the music producer's Alhambra home this morning, with some jury members trying to re-create the position in which actress Lana Clarkson was found after Spector allegedly killed her four years ago.

Here is an interesting one. The jury gets on a bus and they drive them around to the different places the defendant went leading up to the crime. So a semi-reenactment

Murder trial jury takes trip to crime scene

So, following their lunch break Tuesday, jurors were loaded onto a yellow school bus — which, Superior Court Judge Bradford Long informed them, was unfortunately not air conditioned — and driven to the scene of the crime.

Before visiting the restaurant at 4873 NC 62 — where the defendant and victim encountered one another in 2017 — the bus, traveling on NC 62, passed by Colonial Drive. That’s where Russ — stopped in his truck and waiting to turn — contends he first saw Campbell and Roy Pruit riding their motorcycles on N.C. 62 only minutes before the shooting.

A patrol car with lights activated was parked at the end of Colonial Drive to alert the jurors to the significance of the location, which also happens to be where Russ lived prior to his arrest.

The jurors then continued down the road to BBQ Joe’s, where crime scene tape marked off the area of the parking lot in which the shooting occurred.

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

I don't think bringing windows and a railing into a court room is going to have the same effect as standing on the 11th floor of a boat.

 

[justice4allnow]

I don't think bringing windows and a railing into a court room is going to have the same effect as standing on the 11th floor of a boat.

Because the feel and smell of the breeze will be lacking as well as dock noise, the "sense alerts" that emphasize the lack of glass.

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

Because the feel and smell of the breeze will be lacking as well as dock noise, the "sense alerts" that emphasize the lack of glass.

And the color blind thing, too. How do you recreate what was outside the window to show the color difference?

 

[justice4allnow]

[QUOTE="justbreathe, post: 15754971, member: 81383"]I had the great fun of being sued for 90k in federal court (in a different state) by my stalker, while simultaneously working through the 2nd criminal case of my stalker violating my restraining order.[/QUOTE]

Justbreathe, I am so sorry that you had to go through that. You must be a very strong person. Having experienced that may be one reason that you are passionate about advocating for victims now.

 

[MsMarple]

He can’t refuse to testify in the civil trial. All he can do is plead the 5th. He will be subpoenaed.

Once his criminal case is over, the 5th is irrelevant.

The civil trial will wait. They own no one a speedy civil trial.

Yep. IMO SA will need to testify in both trials. He has the option not to testify in his criminal trial but refusing or pleading the 5th isn't going to go over too well with a jury. Most juries want to hear what the defendant has to say. And either choice IMO will fail with the jury in either case.

And yes, he'll likely be subpoenaed in the civil case since he's a major player in Chloe's death. I'm not sure what all he'd have to say other than "I thought there was glass!" in order to bolster the "danger" of the misleading hole of death in the wall of glass. And even that is incredibly weak; what does that prove, that some people are reckless idiots?

I believe the crux of the family's argument will be that RCCL failed to meet the safety standards of the windows but I keep reading that ship standards are different so I'm thinking MW won't be able to come up with actual documentation for regs on ship windows.

So what's left? That RCCL should have had warning signs, decals, bars on the windows? Good luck with that. MOO.

 

[justice4allnow]

Here comes the DM and a message from the parents:

Parents of toddler dropped to her death from Royal Caribbean ship beg Puerto Rico to end case | Daily Mail Online

 

[justice4allnow]

These bulleted points from the DM article say it all:

• Chloe's parents begged Puerto Rican prosecutors to stop criminal proceedings in an emotion-charged statement shared exclusively with DailyMail.com
• Alan and Kimberly Wiegand say evidence from their own private investigation shows it was 'physically impossible' for Anello to have dangled her overboard
• 'We have never wanted charges filed against Sam because we know with all of our hearts that he would never put Chloe in harm's way,' they said
• Anello, elderly and color-blind, made his third court appearance today in San Juan, Puerto Rico

 

[IceIce9]

These bulleted points from the DM article say it all:

• Chloe's parents begged Puerto Rican prosecutors to stop criminal proceedings in an emotion-charged statement shared exclusively with DailyMail.com
• Alan and Kimberly Wiegand say evidence from their own private investigation shows it was 'physically impossible' for Anello to have dangled her overboard
• 'We have never wanted charges filed against Sam because we know with all of our hearts that he would never put Chloe in harm's way,' they said
• Anello, elderly and color-blind, made his third court appearance today in San Juan, Puerto Rico

Elderly?? He is 51. That is not elderly.

 

[MsBetsy]

Plea Deal

From Newsweek:

Speaking outside the court following the status hearing against Anello, Prosecutor Ivette Nieves said they have not formally approached Anello with a deal offer, but have also not rejected the idea.

Grandfather of cruise ship toddler who died after plunging from window rejects plea deal, maintains innocence

Wow, the title and some of the statements in that article are a little misleading. In order to reject a plea deal, one would assume it was formally offered to him.
That is what I understood from the pages of discussion about whether or not he would accept it.

So apparently both sides discussed it as an option but no decision was made either way.

I wonder if SM's lawyer was pushing for a deal but grandpa wouldn't budge.

Imo

 

[MsMarple]

Here comes the DM and a message from the parents:

Parents of toddler dropped to her death from Royal Caribbean ship beg Puerto Rico to end case | Daily Mail Online

GMAFB. From your link:

'We respectfully ask the Puerto Rican prosecutors to take a hard look at the new evidence that has come to light,' Alan and Kimberly said in an emotion-charged statement shared exclusively with DailyMail.com. 'It shows what we have known all along, that Sam thought it was a wall of glass.

'We have never wanted charges filed against Sam because we know with all of our hearts that he would never put Chloe in harm's way.

'We will stand with Sam as long as it takes - but we cannot grieve as a family until the criminal charges are dropped.'
Parents of toddler dropped to her death from Royal Caribbean ship beg Puerto Rico to end case | Daily Mail Online

As an LE officer and attorney both parents know better; SA is charged with negligent homicide and intent is not necessary for a conviction, only that he acted in a negligent way. If the DA had evidence that SA had acted with intent to harm Chloe then the charges would be murder not negligence.

Sigh. I'm getting tired of the parents trying to spin this case into something it's not. Attempting to influence public opinion based on emotions is wearing thin. IMO it dishonors Chloe for SA and her parents to continue to deny his reckless actions. MOO.

 

[katydid23]

From a Puerto Rico News Site Today: Primera Hora, via Google Translate:

Salvatore Anello's defense, accused of a charge of negligent manslaughter for the death of his granddaughter after falling from a window of a cruise ship anchored at the Pan American Pier II, on Isla Grande, has already hired an expert to rebuild the scene and hazard assessment.

This was reported by Mr. José Guillermo Pérez Ortiz, during a conference on the state of the proceedings that took place today in the courtroom of Judge Gisela Alfonso Fernández, of the San Juan Court.


The lawyer told First Time that his representative is inclined to opt for a jury trial.

"Right now we are leaning towards a jury trial," he responded as he left the court.

The lawyer notified the court that he is still in the process of selecting a medical expert to analyze the clinical picture of his client, among five potential candidates.

The judge said on February 24 the next conference on the status of the procedures date on which the scene reconstruction expert is supposed to have filed a detailed report with her findings. You will also have to notify if a medical expert was hired.

While the public prosecutor represented by prosecutors Laura Hernández and Ivette Nieves said that at this date there is no negotiation to reach an agreement with the defense of the accused.

“We have already been notified of the name of that scene recreation expert, we have not yet been notified of a report, what the court ordered from the defense is that this report must be prepared and notified to the public prosecutor to confirm rules within the next three weeks to no more than that so that we can effectively report on February 24 in what position we are if we need to hire an expert or if the evidence we have is enough to be able to refute or be prepared for any testimony that witness can provide, ”said Hernández.

The prosecution revealed that it has already completed the discovery of evidence after the delivery of copies of the interviews and the annotations of the investigating agent.

The events date back to July 7, 2019, when the child was in his care and fell through a window on the 11th floor of the Freedom of the Seas cruise, of the Royal Caribbean company, while it was anchored. Chloe Wiegand, 1 year and 7 months old, did not survive the fall from about 115 feet.

It worries me greatly that the defense is ' rebuilding the scene.' If it is anything like the 'reenactment' it will be pathetic.

I wish they could take the jury on a day trip to the ship instead.

 

[IceIce9]

Here comes the DM and a message from the parents:

Parents of toddler dropped to her death from Royal Caribbean ship beg Puerto Rico to end case | Daily Mail Online

The silver-haired IT worker from Valparaiso, Indiana did not respond when local reporters peppered him questions on the way into court Monday, one asking: 'You knew the window was open, didn't you?

'

 

[justice4allnow]

The DM article is more misleading statements. There is no 'new evidence." The only 'false narrative' is being created by Mr Winkleman, imo. His re-enactment proved nothing. If Sam would simply take responsibility, the tide of sentiment would become supportive of the family and perhaps charges would even be dropped. (I was being sardonic when I said that the bulleted points 'said it all.')

 

[MsBetsy]

Back to jury crime scene trips and reenactments.

OJ and Phil Spector - the jury went to the crime scene.

In Phil Spector, they sat on the furniture and pretended to be Lana Clarkson. The jury was doing their own reenactments at the house.

Criminal Defense - Jury Trials: Can a jury visit the crime scene, as part of reviewing the evidence in the case? | Los Angeles Criminal Law Blog

Jurors in the Phil Spector murder trial toured the music producer's Alhambra home this morning, with some jury members trying to re-create the position in which actress Lana Clarkson was found after Spector allegedly killed her four years ago.

Here is an interesting one. The jury gets on a bus and they drive them around to the different places the defendant went leading up to the crime. So a semi-reenactment

Murder trial jury takes trip to crime scene

So, following their lunch break Tuesday, jurors were loaded onto a yellow school bus — which, Superior Court Judge Bradford Long informed them, was unfortunately not air conditioned — and driven to the scene of the crime.

Before visiting the restaurant at 4873 NC 62 — where the defendant and victim encountered one another in 2017 — the bus, traveling on NC 62, passed by Colonial Drive. That’s where Russ — stopped in his truck and waiting to turn — contends he first saw Campbell and Roy Pruit riding their motorcycles on N.C. 62 only minutes before the shooting.

A patrol car with lights activated was parked at the end of Colonial Drive to alert the jurors to the significance of the location, which also happens to be where Russ lived prior to his arrest.

The jurors then continued down the road to BBQ Joe’s, where crime scene tape marked off the area of the parking lot in which the shooting occurred.

Well, both those were murder cases and the jury did not have the advantage of viewing direct evidence such as a video tape of the crime as in this case.

I don't think the jury will need to visit the ship in order to find him negligent.
You can clearly see him lift her over the railing and onto the window ledge. The proof is on the tape.

Imo

 

[Chikkamma]

Yes, he was offered a deal to plead guilty and not receive any prison time.
He said he was probably not going to accept it because he wanted to go to trial and clear his name.
So now it appears the deal is off the table.

Imo

This is incorrect. SA was never officially offered a plea deal. It was something that both sides discussed (verbally) but it was never concrete. The prosecutor said this herself in a spanish interview- that there was “discussion of a plea deal but nothing on the table and it looks like the case at this time will go to trial”.

That being said, I’m sure if SA indicated that he would take the discussed deal that the prosecutors would offer him one. But that did not happen.

I’ll try to find the link to the video where she says this, but it’s in Spanish.