Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #120

[JnRyan]

I do not believe it has to be true that “somebody knows.”
That is a hopeful assumption but is not a fact, imo.
Not like a Ted Bundy, in which case people who knew & suspected him contacted police as soon as they connected the dots in their minds, which is what I believe would happen here.

A child killer is not going to tell his wife, brother etc...or anyone else, imo. And if he is loner type he may not have even been missed on the day of the murders or shortly afterward. He may even look quite different than that blur of an image we have all seen a million times.

I really think DNA is the key to this case and that if LE had a suspect, they would have found a way to get his by now. Several episodes of “Cold Case Files” were solved this way a few decades ago, if they could do it then it certainly could be done now.
Jmo

I don't believe anyone knows either. There maybe someone who suspects, but does not know. The example I usually give is a sketch came out after VA Tech student Morgan Harrington was murdered in Charlottesville VA. Jesse Matthew lived in Charlottesville and his co-workers joked about he looked like the person in the sketch if he hadn't let his hair grow longer. It wouldn't be until after Matthew killed again, this time UVA student Hannah Graham, that he would be caught. His co-workers at the cab company saw the resemblance, but they didn't know he was the killer. In fact, they never really suspected. No one checked to see if Matthew was driving his cab that night.

 

[Mom24]

My thought has always been that this was someone who grew up in the area, but moved away. I think for some reason he was in town for a few days, maybe for Valentine's Day, and left the area soon after. I also believe people who know him have seen the resemblance, but can't see him as being the person who did this. I know we only heard a small snippet of his voice, but it was calm and soft spoken. To me it almost sounded like someone who had a military background? I could almost hear the "sir" in his voice. The most surprising thing about each and every case is often how normal the killers are, they don't look like monsters and often have no criminal backgrounds. So it's hard for friends and family to make the call because they feel so stupid about it.

 

[Inthedetails]

I don't believe anyone knows either. There maybe someone who suspects, but does not know. The example I usually give is a sketch came out after VA Tech student Morgan Harrington was murdered in Charlottesville VA. Jesse Matthew lived in Charlottesville and his co-workers joked about he looked like the person in the sketch if he hadn't let his hair grow longer. It wouldn't be until after Matthew killed again, this time UVA student Hannah Graham, that he would be caught. His co-workers at the cab company saw the resemblance, but they didn't know he was the killer. In fact, they never really suspected. No one checked to see if Matthew was driving his cab that night.

Excellent comparison. I also think once BG is identified, people will say, "Aha. Makes sense."

jmopinion

 

[cluciano63]

With all the tips they have had, most people who suspected someone probably have already called it in.

 

[Inthedetails]

With all the tips they have had, most people who suspected someone probably have already called it in.

Maybe.

I think LE has evidence. I think LE has tips. But they don't have a tip that matches the evidence.

I also think LE is missing evidence and missing the right tip.

jmo

 

[Charlot123]

I don't post much here anymore, but always check and pray that someday there will be arrest and justice for these two promising, intelligent, young ladies that were cruelly deprived of life.

I was watching a program last night about a case in England - they had a sketch and they had an audio recording of the kidnapper of a young lady, similar circumstances in that it was a small town, and they broadcast those on the local Crime Watch show - the ex-wife of the kidnapper called in and identified her ex as the perp. At first, just based on the sketch, she wasn't sure, but when she heard the audio recording that made her certain. It was short as well, just "Do you have the money?"

So I ask myself - what is different here? In a small town, we have a sketch (2 in fact), we have video of him walking, and we have audio of him speaking. How could he not be recognized? I think it's fairly common for ex-wives or ex-girlfriends to be the ones to turn in that final tip, so why not for this killer?

1. He's a loner and never has had or had a wife, girlfriend, or significant other.
2. He's not a local, and despite national coverage, the right people haven't become aware of this case.
3. Those who know him, aren't sure and/or are terrified of him. (If I were LE, I would explore domestic violence cases in the area.)

Another cold case I watched was a young woman in a small town that had been murdered, it turns out by a local boy who went to the same high school or college as her. Two of her friends/acquaintances talked amongst themselves and both immediately thought that the same person was responsible. In fact, many people in the town did, but it wasn't until 20 years later that they turned in the tip and spoke to police. They said they didn't because, they weren't 100% sure, that they felt they couldn't ruin his life if they were wrong, etc.

I truly hope anyone in Delphi who has any real strong feelings about someone in their town isn't held back by the same kind of sentiments as these women. Tips can be anonymous, police will investigate - if you're wrong, you're wrong and hopefully the worse that person will endure is a difficult interrogation and that person if innocent will be free to move on with their lives, but if you're right...justice will be done.

I know, none of the above is really anything new that hasn't been re-hashed here a thousand times but the show last night triggered these thoughts.

I think that one of the reasons might be mundane. The wife/partner is financially dependent on the perp, or they have young kids.

I read that often, the prize fund is not truly available to the people who provide valuable information. I remember one case discussed here, when a professional couple, that did provide verifiable information, was smeared on the Internet. True, they could have come forward sooner, and the case could have been solved without them, but the reaction of the community sent a very bad message to future witnesses who are interested only in money, but are important and verifiable witnesses nonetheless.

So... sorry for posting something cynical, but between fear, and advices that some people might give about LE (“why even talk to them?”), and as we know this happens, too, the promise has to be solid - that the prize fund is available for the star witness. That could be one block outweighing the rest.

I don’t even have a poi at this moment...just an idea.

 

[Charlot123]

I agree 100% on the DNA stuff, DNA is not the be all and end all in a criminal case. I think a lot of people put value in what they see on TV shows and think it applies to real-world criminal investigations. If DNA were so valuable, and such a huge part of a lot of cases, a lot more cases would have been solved already in the last 20 years or so.

(Snipped by me)

DNA is valuable if it is obtained under the circumstances indicating that rape had occurred. And even this is not airtight if the person is sexually active and had recent consensual intercourse with the partner.

Anything like touch DNA, DNA on the items around, anything that could potentially explained away or contested, is usable, but may not be enough for a conviction.

 

[BNA]

Do you think the person suspects him?

I can only guess, and my guess is: no.

Like another suggested, person probably is infatuated with and/or holds the person in high regard. Probably thinks he/she hit the jackpot with this guy. Again, just guessing.

 

[Charlot123]

If I were a detective investigating this case, I would determine if any workers at the slaughterhouse in Delphi quit right after the murders, track them down and interview them. For that matter, did any workers at Delphi quit their jobs just after the murders? Those might be some people worth talking to, as someone who murdered those girls might want to leave town suddenly.

+ 1

For some reason, everyone views the perp as someone super intelligent, or highly educated. It could be true.
The opposite could be true, too. Indiana LE is not a good match for him.
So I won’t discount either Packers or truckers.

 

[JnRyan]

With all the tips they have had, most people who suspected someone probably have already called it in.

And he might be in there somewhere. Early in this investigation there were so many LE and support staff involved that the task force had to be moved to a large building. With the volume of investigators involved keeping track of the documentation of interviews is a huge task. At some point you are highly reliant on what an investigator wrote up regarding a possible suspect from a tip. And after the task force was downsized many of the investigators moved back to their jurisdictions. In those interviews a person may have stated their whereabouts that day and the verification may have not been done or written up adequately. And if that one person turns out to be the killer LE passed him by.

 

[carbuff]

Morning carbuff, if he is incarcerated wouldn’t they make a DNA match eventually?

Probably eventually, but as with everything else related to testing, many places have significant backlog, and depending on the state, it might not be for an offense that requires DNA testing. And I think some states hold the results private until after you've completed your sentence and probation, and if you get through, they destroy it without putting it in public databases.

 

[tresir2012]

Delphi faith community grows stronger 3 years after double homicide

I don't remember seeing this posted. It includes a couple of interviews with Pastors in Delphi.

 

[Charlot123]

You're exactly right. DC has been repeating the same things since early on. He also refuses to call it a cold case, even after three years. I understand not wanting to give up hope. Unfortunately, I think DC, by his gung-ho attitude, is leading people to believe the case is so-so close to being solved. He means well, I'm sure, but he's also setting people up for major disappointment.

Reading what has been posted on the Internet about certain POIs (four people come to mind), I wonder if that April PC had played a negative role, and sorry, it is the fault of LE but even more so, anyone who gave the idea to the LE.

If DC says that the man on the bridge is responsible for the killings, for me, that statement exonerates at least three of the four young people mentioned (or discussed) online (I don’t know the height of the third one).

But what happened, when everyone started comparing a very bad sketch with their neighbors and acquaintances, or just faces from the yearbook, is the result of the PC. And essentially, we have a tricky situation here.

Another side to it - people are afraid now to even post (possibly, valid) suspicions, as they don’t want to be the part of that smear campaign.

So what the LE is saying now, don’t sleuth, is true...only it was triggered by that conference, and the goal yet has not been reached.

My feeling - I don’t know if LE has messed up the case. Possibly, not. Maybe it is too difficult. But whoever scripted that conference made a mistake.

LE owes the public another PC. Targeted not directly at the killer. (Maybe they are wrong with their POI, either). LE needs to address the public. (And maybe they do need to release more audio, but I am not a specialist). But they definitely need to consult someone with experience as to how to proceed from now.

ETA: someone who is not from the area and has not broken the investigator’s neutrality. Someone who has the optics. Someone who can communicate with the public in a logical, not paternalistic/family way. I think one of the problems is, local LE is very local.

(You know who I thought was excellent as the example of a LE? Michael Rourke from the Watts case. He is a DA, I know. But he could somehow combine logic with emotions with neutrality and still do the job. Is there someone like him to consult? The locals seem too close, sorry, then there is already agglomeration, showing with the families on TV...not good for the case. People like Paul Hole are celebrities, I don’t think it will work. The case needs someone logical).

 

[GMG1999]

So I guess none of the current POI's they have match the BG description?

Why would a killer leave cell photos of the victims?

 

[Eclipsed]

Question: wasnt there two girls (partners)who went camping & also were murdered with no resolved case? This seems similar to me.

 

[Ozoner]

Question: wasnt there two girls (partners)who went camping & also were murdered with no resolved case? This seems similar to me.

That isn't ringing a bell for me. Do you recall in what year or state the murders occurred?

 

[Inthedetails]

So I guess none of the current POI's they have match the BG description?

Why would a killer leave cell photos of the victims?

What do you mean photos of the victims?

jmo

 

[Eclipsed]

That isn't ringing a bell for me. Do you recall in what year or state the murders occurred?

No, I'm wrecking my brain but such a similar case. Almost like the girls were watched first.
I think BG watched Abby & Libby being dropped off & the sister pulling away. Schools out, watching parking lot for a victim(s) in this case.

 

[Eclipsed]

I can only guess, and my guess is: no.

Like another suggested, person probably is infatuated with and/or holds the person in high regard. Probably thinks he/she hit the jackpot with this guy. Again, just guessing.

Listen to his voice . Easy-going, mild mannered sounding. Look at the pic, hands in pockets, again giving that easy-going facade.
Perhaps lured the girls down the hill w/directions to something interesting.

 

[carbuff]

No, I'm wrecking my brain but such a similar case. Almost like the girls were watched first.
I think BG watched Abby & Libby being dropped off & the sister pulling away. Schools out, watching parking lot for a victim(s) in this case.

There's a case from Shenandoah National Park where two women camping were killed by (probably) a serial killer, but that was decades ago.