Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #17

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tealrose said:
The only thing I have about this theory is that, if the purpose is to hide Tylee's phone in storage, then I'm not quite sure the times fit closely enough. If that was the intent, then it would make sense for the use of the phone to occur from the storage unit, never removing it... or perhaps taking it elsewhere to use it, then taking it right back. But the dates, if I'm understanding your annotated timeline right, are sometimes a few days apart. That would leave an awful lot of time where they're still in physical possession of the phone. (Of course, then there is the issue of keeping the phone charged so it can be used...)

But to add on to your thought - I wonder if the phone might have been left there when they were out of town? But then why take it to Hawaii later?

I'd also be really interested in knowing if there was some point at which service to the phone was disconnected (which seems reasonable) and thus the phone could only then be used on wifi...
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Interesting thoughts. Obviously, I don't think storage of the phone was the only reason for the storage unit. They were keeping a lot more than a phone or tablet there. It might have simply been convenient to retrieve the phone at that time. And my thinking is that if they were using the phone like a burner phone they might only have possession of it while needing to communicate about certain activities. Take Oct 6th through Oct 16 as an example. I'll put my speculation/hypotheticals in red:

6 Oct 2019, 1:42-1:50 pm – A man visits Lori’s storage unit alone in the pick-up truck belonging to Alex and he takes something out of the unit (Dateline).
Perhaps the man retrieved a gun, gear, clothing and other items, along with Tylee's phone. Perhaps the items are taken out a few days in advance of a planned operation so that removing the items won't be readily connected to the day the operation takes place.

9 Oct 2019 - Tammy has an encounter with a masked man with a gun outside her ID home which she contacted the police about. She also posted about it on Facebook:
“Something really weird just happened, and I want you to know so you can watch out,”...“I had gotten home and parked in our front driveway. As I was getting stuff out of the back seat, a guy wearing a ski mask was suddenly standing by the back of my car with a paintball gun. He shot at me several times, although I don’t think it was loaded. I yelled for Chad and he ran off around the back of my house...” (East Idaho News, Daily Mail)
Perhaps gun, clothing and other items from the storage unit were used for this attempt on Tammy's life. Tylee's phone might be used as a burner phone to communicate. Or Tylee's phone was retrieved on Oct 6th simply out of convenience/another use. Was someone paid for this attempt? Did Lori some how make money on it or did she perhaps visit Chad while Tammy was gone to Church and perhaps Chad gave her money which could be deposited into an account connected to Tylee's Venmo?

10 Oct 2019, 5:39 pm – Venmo in Tylee’s name sent money to her older brother CR with a heart and “We love you”. CR says the money sent through Tylee’s account in Oct was from his mom Lori. CR figured his mom was having Tylee send money through her account because Lori was not very tech savvy and he thought Lori couldn’t figure out how to do it through her own account at that time. (CR interview w/Justin Lum, Fox10 Phoenix).
Lori sends money to Colby though Tylee's account the day after the attempt on Tammy's life. IMO the amount of money and the reason she sent him money has little to no bearing on this case. My theory is Colby had a sick baby and some money issues and Lori was helping him out as mothers do. Colby knew it was Lori sending the money through Tylee because money was previously sent that way back in early August-- when Tylee was still in AZ and was communicating more frequently with Colby. Colby has no further info on the transaction that could help us find Tylee's whereabouts. The important thing is it was Lori using Tylee's account. Also, where the money she sent came from and why she used Tylee's phone could be interesting. She may be tech-challenged but I think using Tylee's phone was sneaky because she didn't want the money sent to her son traced back to her.

[...]

16 Oct 2019, 11:05-11:11 am – A man visits Lori’s storage unit alone in a pickup belonging to Alex and puts something into the unit (Dateline).
On Oct 16th Lori could have set up a 2nd Venmo transaction to send to Colby, then given the phone to Alex to put back into storage along with the other items he had taken out-- the items used in an attempted crime. The key to understanding this possibility for me came from the understanding that the timestamps on Venmo only tell us when the money actually transfers from bank to bank, not when the money is sent or received. Hopefully I'm understanding that correctly.

16 Oct 2019, 1:43 pm (ID Timezone) - Venmo in Tylee’s name again sent money to her older brother CR with a heart. This is the last activity on Tylee’s social media.
The phone could be off and back in storage by the time this transaction goes through. Why? because perhaps they didn't need it for the next phase of the plan (Tammy) but at the same time if the phone has anything incriminating on it from the time of "paintball incident" they don't want it at the townhouse. So maybe the phone goes back in storage just before Tammy dies. The next trip to the storage unit is on the afternoon of Tammy's out-of-town funeral and items are removed. Once Tammy's been buried they would believe they got away with it. But they might again have a need to communicate with certain people out of town about certain things. The reply text to Tylee's friend might have been sent a few days later only as an after-thought or because whomever had Tylee's phone was too busy... I don't think the primary reason for retrieving the phone was to send texts to Tylee's friend. But if the phone was in storage as my theory supposes then that would explain why no one replied to the friend when she texted Tylee on Oct 19th-- the same day Tammy died.

MOO.
 
Webbie16 said:
Do you know what type of vehicle Chad drives? I too am convinced that is a rear seat. It looks like an older wrangler seat. The video isn't the best quality can you make out any headrests? Cause I do not think the 2012 upper part comes off, but I can go check my Jeep to give us an idea if we need to.
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Black 2011 Chevy Equinox. Rear seat is removable, but very difficult and awkward to do. I wouldn't do it on a whim just to put it back in the next day.
tabitha111 said:
@Rexburg
have you gone to LE with your theory? Do you think they would listen to you? I think so, since you have helped them somewhat already. I hope that you do go to them and at least give them something to look over and think about.
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Yes. I have. I know they have listened. Given the nature of the investigation, they haven't replied in any way to indicate the theory's merits. In the past I've received thank you, or we have this info. Either way. They know.
 
Gardener1850 said:
My theory is pretty simple. I think they were keeping Tylee's device hidden in the storage unit in October and taking it out whenever they needed to make a transaction of some sort. Every time there is some activity on Tylee's device seems to be after a trip to the storage unit. But for what purpose would they keep it hidden there? Well I'm not sure, but there are many details of Tylee's device activity that we don't know. What if Tylee's device was being used to move money around? Or to communicate messages to certain people? Lori took Tylee's phone to Hawaii with her and had it in Kauai. Why?? That seems like a pretty incriminating thing to have when Tylee is no where to be found. I think that rather than get a burner phone, low-tech-Lori was using Tylee's phone for activity she didn't want others to know about. And from time to time maybe she ended up answering text messages sent to Tylee or sent CR money through Tylee's phone. MOO.
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Makes perfect sense to me. I'm buying.
 
Gardener1850 said:
Interesting thoughts. Obviously, I don't think storage of the phone was the only reason for the storage unit. They were keeping a lot more than a phone or tablet there. It might have simply been convenient to retrieve the phone at that time. And my thinking is that if they were using the phone like a burner phone they might only have possession of it while needing to communicate about certain activities. Take Oct 6th through Oct 16 as an example. I'll put my speculation/hypotheticals in red:

6 Oct 2019, 1:42-1:50 pm – A man visits Lori’s storage unit alone in the pick-up truck belonging to Alex and he takes something out of the unit (Dateline).
Perhaps the man retrieved a gun, gear, clothing and other items, along with Tylee's phone. Perhaps the items are taken out a few days in advance of a planned operation so that removing the items won't be readily connected to the day the operation takes place.

9 Oct 2019 - Tammy has an encounter with a masked man with a gun outside her ID home which she contacted the police about. She also posted about it on Facebook:
“Something really weird just happened, and I want you to know so you can watch out,”...“I had gotten home and parked in our front driveway. As I was getting stuff out of the back seat, a guy wearing a ski mask was suddenly standing by the back of my car with a paintball gun. He shot at me several times, although I don’t think it was loaded. I yelled for Chad and he ran off around the back of my house...” (East Idaho News, Daily Mail)
Perhaps gun, clothing and other items from the storage unit were used for this attempt on Tammy's life. Tylee's phone might be used as a burner phone to communicate. Or Tylee's phone was retrieved on Oct 6th simply out of convenience/another use. Was someone paid for this attempt? Did Lori some how make money on it or did she perhaps visit Chad while Tammy was gone to Church and perhaps Chad gave her money which could be deposited into an account connected to Tylee's Venmo?

10 Oct 2019, 5:39 pm – Venmo in Tylee’s name sent money to her older brother CR with a heart and “We love you”. CR says the money sent through Tylee’s account in Oct was from his mom Lori. CR figured his mom was having Tylee send money through her account because Lori was not very tech savvy and he thought Lori couldn’t figure out how to do it through her own account at that time. (CR interview w/Justin Lum, Fox10 Phoenix).
Lori sends money to Colby though Tylee's account the day after the attempt on Tammy's life. IMO the amount of money and the reason she sent him money has little to no bearing on this case. My theory is Colby had a sick baby and some money issues and Lori was helping him out as mothers do. Colby knew it was Lori sending the money through Tylee because money was previously sent that way back in early August-- when Tylee was still in AZ and was communicating more frequently with Colby. Colby has no further info on the transaction that could help us find Tylee's whereabouts. The important thing is it was Lori using Tylee's account. Also, where the money she sent came from and why she used Tylee's phone could be interesting. She may be tech-challenged but I think using Tylee's phone was sneaky because she didn't want the money sent to her son traced back to her.

[...]

16 Oct 2019, 11:05-11:11 am – A man visits Lori’s storage unit alone in a pickup belonging to Alex and puts something into the unit (Dateline).
On Oct 16th Lori could have set up a 2nd Venmo transaction to send to Colby, then given the phone to Alex to put back into storage along with the other items he had taken out-- the items used in an attempted crime. The key to understanding this possibility for me came from the understanding that the timestamps on Venmo only tell us when the money actually transfers from bank to bank, not when the money is sent or received. Hopefully I'm understanding that correctly.

16 Oct 2019, 1:43 pm (ID Timezone) - Venmo in Tylee’s name again sent money to her older brother CR with a heart. This is the last activity on Tylee’s social media.
The phone could be off and back in storage by the time this transaction goes through. Why? because perhaps they didn't need it for the next phase of the plan (Tammy) but at the same time if the phone has anything incriminating on it from the time of "paintball incident" they don't want it at the townhouse. So maybe the phone goes back in storage just before Tammy dies. The next trip to the storage unit is on the afternoon of Tammy's out-of-town funeral and items are removed. Once Tammy's been buried they would believe they got away with it. But they might again have a need to communicate with certain people out of town about certain things. The reply text to Tylee's friend might have been sent a few days later only as an after-thought or because whomever had Tylee's phone was too busy... I don't think the primary reason for retrieving the phone was to send texts to Tylee's friend. But if the phone was in storage as my theory supposes then that would explain why no one replied to the friend when she texted Tylee on Oct 19th-- the same day Tammy died.

MOO.
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Why would they keep Tylee's phone in the storage unit, when it was traceable? Same with using it as a burner phone. IMO it would make more sense to buy a new burner phone. There would be no need to hide it and it could not be traced back to Lori.

The police must know the location of Tylee's phone every time it was used. I think Lori kept it to keep the appearance that Tylee was still with her. I wonder if she planned to use it in Hawaii as well.
 
Avocado49 said:
How could there really be a “safely stashed away” scenario when, in order to be stashed, the kids have to have been isolated to the extreme from any outside public places or contact, from all friends and relatives, from all electronics etc. for 5 long months without their parents.
Basically they are being kept in a prison, if they are alive. It doesn’t let Lori off the hook.
I’m still hoping that once the state has secured custody, they can get Lori and Chad for kidnapping.
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Well, by safely I mean physically safe. Clearly if they are being kept in a compound somewhere and isolated that would be its own cruelty. I just mean I have a hard time believing the kids were killed in cold blood. And as I said above, that is probably just wishful thinking.
 
BigAl16 said:
While not exactly normal, I also would say that doing videos (youtube, Facebook Live, or whatever) from a car isn't that far out there. I've seen it a lot. Part of that might be the Youtube channels I watch have a fair number of traveling oriented channels which might be part of the explanation, but at least one person I know has done videos from his car because it is the easiest way to not get interrupted or disturbed. Also, if you're using a cell phone having a holder that will get the phone/camera pointed at your face and keep things focused if you're videoing by yourself is easier with that setup than many. JR is a bit whacko, but I'm not sure the videoing in her car is one of the reasons why I'd describe her as such. :)

MOO
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Part of it might be using the free Wi-Fi that some businesses offer in order to have access to higher bandwidth that you don't have to pay for yourself or that otherwise may not be available to your home address.
 
CSIDreamer said:
Is that even legal to do banking business when the Federal Reserve is closed? I realize atm's are always open. But what about anything requiring a signature? Jmo
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Of course it's legal. Banks are often open on weekends for example all over the country. Hawaii also has some of its own holidays and hence some federal holidays are not really honored by most businesses including banks. We have Prince Kuhio Day in March, King Kamehameha Day in June. We don't have MLK Day or Columbus Day. Federal offices are closed on those holidays but the banks are usually open but closed on the Hawaiian holidays. I hope that makes sense.

And President's Day on this past Monday is one of those holidays that is not celebrated by all businesses in Hawaii. I would not be so sure that all banks were closed that day.
 
tealrose said:
CR was, technically, mentioned in the Dateline show, but not by name. I don't have a timestamp for you, but there was one point where they were talking about the time period during which Lori and CV got together, PRIOR to them adopting JJ... and it is stated that Lori has TWO kids at that time. (I was like, aha! they *are* going to talk about CR.) And then the very next sentence is focused on Tylee, and they never elaborate on the other "kid" that Lori has at the time. So he wasn't ignored... but for whatever reason they made the choice, he was very deliberately not mentioned by name, and it was some very nice slight-of-hand in being factually correct, but distracting. (If I have time later, I'll try to find the exact quote.)

Also, it seemed reasonable to wonder about the wellbeing of the ex-spouses and children of newlyweds we can't sleuth, and one of them has been silent in the six weeks since mentioning that a certain national news team came calling. Odd, imo, that she chose to post a business card and mention it publicly, but was never mentioned on the program.

Does Dateline ever create follow-up stories? There is SO MUCH that they left out of this one (time constraints are real, y'all, no filler here!) that I can imagine, depending on how things play out, that they'll WANT to. (I suspect they have one heck of a lot of unused hours of interviews...) Wonder how they did/are doing on ratings for this episode?
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I wonder if CR might have signed an exclusivity contract of some sort with Fox1o Phoenix giving that news station sole rights to CR's interviews on this case? That would mean Dateline couldn't interview CR for the show nor use clips from his previous interviews. I mean, it's not as if CR has been silent on this case. He released a few youtube videos on his own, went on GMA and then spoke to Justin Lum for 42 minutes: RAW INTERVIEW: Full 42 minutes with Colby Ryan

It seems like his full interview was only ever released on Lum's facebook, thus fewer people may have heard what Colby had to say. MOO.
 
tealrose said:
Me neither. Which makes me wonder if the shooter in those two instances wasn't him. If I'm remembering correctly, the Dateline show was very careful to report that he'd believed it to be AC because it was the Jeep he'd been driving, not because he saw the driver.

And I hope it wasn't moving. Dateline said he'd just gotten out of the vehicle.
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When it comes to determining whether AC was in Rexburg or Gilbert on 10/2, without further information or clarification from BB, his PI (Robertson), or Gilbert LE, we're left guessing (at least about the Gilbert location). Obviously, if the video had provided irrefutable evidence that AC was the shooter, I'm sure Gilbert LE would have arrested him.

From the 911 call transcript, when asked "did you see the guy..?" BB replies: "I didn't see who it was" - then, strangely, the next section of the transcript is redacted. I suspect that this is because it was maybe during this part of the call that BB was telling the dispatcher that he (BB) suspected AC was the shooter.

Then last week when Robertson got his 15 minutes of fame, one media report states: "Robertson said Boudreaux told him Cox was driving a green Jeep Cherokee."

Further muddying the water, another media source quotes Robertson as saying: "The person (Brandon) recognized, the person he suspected was the person who did the shooting, was the same person who killed Charles Vallow, Alex Cox." C'mon, Robertson! Did BB recognize the shooter or not?

So, we're still left wondering (about Gilbert, anyway): "if it wasn't AC, then who was it"? There really don't seem to be many logical candidates (MB and IP are the only two I can think of).

I'd love to hear BB (or even Robertson) clarify, but LE may have told them to zip it. But if LE is telling them to keep quiet, maybe that's an indication that LE perhaps thinks there is a shooter still out there..

Btw (from same media sources), the vehicle the shooter was in was apparently parked at the curb - so both vehicles were parked when the shot was fired.
 
Gardener1850 said:
I wonder if CR might have signed an exclusivity contract of some sort with Fox1o Phoenix giving that news station sole rights to CR's interviews on this case? That would mean Dateline couldn't interview CR for the show nor use clips from his previous interviews. I mean, it's not as if CR has been silent on this case. He released a few youtube videos on his own, went on GMA and then spoke to Justin Lum for 42 minutes: RAW INTERVIEW: Full 42 minutes with Colby Ryan

It seems like his full interview was only ever released on Lum's facebook, thus fewer people may have heard what Colby had to say. MOO.
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I'm not sure that local TV stations like Fox 10 do exclusive contracts. In the case of Lori and Chad's wedding photos, Justin Lum said that local stations don't pay for photos. NBC probably didn't want to cooperate with Fox on the project (they did use Nate from EIN). It's possible that Colby took advice from the police to not appear in the episode.
 
adot0902 said:
Some people in our office work on days the Fed/Stock Market is closed. We just can't perform trades, any money movement involving banks/checking would be done on the following business day, but no reason business could not be conducted.
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Aside: I always thought it very deceptive to call it the "automated clearing house" transfer; considering it still clearly needs a human being somewhere to flip the switch. (Wouldn't a true "automated" system continue to go ahead on nights and weekends?)

But yes, absolutely agree, as in conjunction with my accounting department(s), I've done it many a time. You can do the prep work any time you want; it's just the work won't go anywhere until the banking system is online and your bank reps are back in the office.

indicolite22 said:
I only watched the preview. As I remember my post, Lori told the police a different lie (kids were with a friend in Arizona) than Alex (kids were with the grandparents in Louisiana), because LE rejected Alex's version. This was said in the preview by Kay, not the police.

Chad wasn't mentioned in the preview. I also remember the "Lori and Chad had lied..." line from earlier media reports. According to some reports, Lori even claimed at some point that Tylee had run off with JJ, but this could have been after November 26.
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IIRC, the story goes: Alex answered the door and said JJ was with his grandparents in Louisiana.

LE then said "Uh, they're the people who called in this 'wellness check', so pretty sure not."

Alex: ...?

tresir2012 said:
I think all this stuff is done for money laundering reasons that were brought in all over the world after 9/11. Suddenly after that day any transaction I did through my solicitor required me to provide a passport identity even though my solicitor has known and dealt with me for years. I think it is also because of identity theft. It sure is a real PITA.
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KYC laws! (Which stands for "Know Your Customer") . The governments of the world are trying to make sure you're not a terrorist. I used to have to do this for conflict checks for my old law firm. So much of it is very not necessary, considering folks with unusual names (provided they're not terrorists) are quickly cleared as not being present on the terrorist lists; and folks with common names are bogged down weeding out false positives; but it's an international banking requirement now. Nowadays even the putative Cayman Islands "offshore accounts" aren't what they used to be - last FY our Cayman Islands registered agent sent us a batch of forms asking us, amongst other things, why we chose the Cayman Islands as opposed to other jurisdictions (!!!); and the purpose for which the subsidiary was established in the first place. (Me: ..."Uh, is this a trick question? 'We chose the Cayman Islands for, I assume, the same reason that everyone else did, dummies - because we didn't have to tell you any of this information!'")
 
Gardener1850 said:
I wonder if CR might have signed an exclusivity contract of some sort with Fox1o Phoenix giving that news station sole rights to CR's interviews on this case? That would mean Dateline couldn't interview CR for the show nor use clips from his previous interviews. I mean, it's not as if CR has been silent on this case. He released a few youtube videos on his own, went on GMA and then spoke to Justin Lum for 42 minutes: RAW INTERVIEW: Full 42 minutes with Colby Ryan

It seems like his full interview was only ever released on Lum's facebook, thus fewer people may have heard what Colby had to say. MOO.
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I also wonder if it's possible that the status of his relationship with Lori has changed since his last interview.
 
nhmemorymaker said:
I no longer think "way more going on" as in a single focussed effort/plan as it comes to Chad's and Lori's teachings. Once you start to look into all these LDS outgrowths going on EVERYWHERE.. ( "AVOW", "The Call-Out" "Remnants", Snufferettes, "Energy Healing", "Multiple MOrtal Probations" etc etc). There are so many "wanna-be narcissistic heros" of all these groups, "healers" "visions", "callings" "leaders", and just as many "wanna-be experts" disavowing all the things they say. The BESTminterpretation I found on one or another LDS type site was "There are so many heads on this PaP Hydra...one gets cut off, and another two grow". Just starting to believe this is just downright selfish greedy criminals...who somehow have a source of money to run with. So frustrating....but then again this is why I think someone is going to eventually crack..because there is really nothing religious about this.
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I know! I keep finding so much weird stuff. None of it is necessarily suspicious or having anything to do with this case, just so much going on in the world that I was never aware of. I mean, I knew about preppers but had no idea all the tendrils that movement has.
 
indicolite22 said:
Why would they keep Tylee's phone in the storage unit, when it was traceable? Same with using it as a burner phone. IMO it would make more sense to buy a new burner phone. There would be no need to hide it and it could not be traced back to Lori.

The police must know the location of Tylee's phone every time it was used. I think Lori kept it to keep the appearance that Tylee was still with her. I wonder if she planned to use it in Hawaii as well.
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Believe it or not, when I first heard that LE had found Tylee's phone in HI, I thought it was perhaps a good thing. I was actually hoping they'd found JJ's iPad with it as well, thinking that that might mean that Lori was possibly, at some time in the future, planning to give the devices back to the kids. But that was a while ago..

I was always puzzled as to why Lori might have used Tylee's cell phone to send the July thru Oct Venmo payments to CR (btw, do we know if you have to use someone's actual mobile device to send a Venmo payment from their account, our can you access their Venmo account using a different device altogether as long as you have their sign in info?).

I guess if Tylee were deceased, Lori might have been using Tylee's phone to try to make it appear that Tylee was still alive. But then why tell Rexburg PD that Lori's been dead since a year before her father died?

Other mobile devices that I imagine would be invaluable to LE would probably include: CV's (which I think they have, albeit without the MicroSD), AC's (haven't heard if LE was able to collect this one or not - or where it might be if they didn't), Lori's, CD's, MB's, and ZP's. I bet AC destroyed his - or used only burners.

Jmo
 
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