Deceased/Not Found CT - Jennifer Dulos, 50, New Canaan, 24 May 2019 *ARRESTS* #47

[Nikynoo]

On what basis @Nikynoo can you reasonably dispute the findings of the ME here?

Very curious what you might be seeing that the ME (who had much more information that we have here) drew what I believe to be a conservative opinion.

MOO

The wording in the warrant gives me some discomfort, but I am bearing in mind that the statement is for probable cause and not for trial itself, where I would expect the ME to give evidence.

 

[MollyDDD]

I'm still hung up on the phone ping on Birch St., Bristol.
I have a couple new thoughts on this and it involves Michelle Troconis's involvement.

Who's old stomping grounds is right around
Middle St., Birch St., Pine St, ESPM headquarters? That's right, Michelle Troconis.
She would most likely have thought of using or being in this area rather than FD because of her familiarity of this neighborhood.
And again, having lived nearby many years ago, this area is not a place that locals go to
or near UNLESS they go there was a specific purpose. It's an old, rundown semi-industrial
mixed use neighborhood of little old houses,
small factories, public and private dumps and landfills which accept normal waste and toxic materials. Many run down rentals and a few
apartment sites there also. Not what you'd call a good neighborhood.
So I believe this errand into Birch/Middle St. was run by Michelle as an errand for FD.
Because I'm convinced she participated in some of the post mortem handling of the body
due to her dna being on several bags, and because I suspect the body was likely desecrated after death for both disposal and possibly due to joint hatred by both FD and Michelle Troconis. It's very possible, IMO, that Michelle Troconis may have been delivering parts of the body, maybe the severed head and hands, re-wrapped after unwrapping and being
dismembered at 80 MS or DC, and then repackaged in a container like a cooler, driven
to the Middle St. area and disposed of. Either
in a lake or swamp, or a pre-dug grave, or left
as toxic waste at one of the dumps/landfills there.
I believe that we'll eventually read that the phone pings around Birch St. , Bristol was FD's
female crime assistant, Michelle Troconis.
Come on Kent, we need you to come clean.
You know all about this errand, tell LE all you know.

I pray he does come clean. With FD taking the easy way out and MT being the tight lipped “female dog” that she is, Kent could put the pieces together and perhaps JD’s family can move on through the grieving process.

 

[Nikynoo]

If what you mean by 'not a messy crime scene' is obviously visible blood dripping from all surfaces in the 69/71 Welles garage then yes, someone like LA who was used to walking through the garage would not have seen blood dripping from all surfaces when she returned to the house to have lunch with the 4 children.

BUT, the crime scene before it was cleaned was IMO quite messy and the blood loss IMO was extensive enough for Dr Gill to make the statement that he did about a violent attack happening in the garage at 69/71 Welles. There was reference to a partial blood footprint and blood pooling that was consistent with a violent attack.

So, at some point the CRIME SCENE WAS MESSY AND QUITE BLOODY. It is believed that at least 10 rolls of paper towels, possibly JFd clothes or other rags or other materials were used to clean up the blood. It is also believed that blood pooling will be in evidence following seepage into the concrete floor. Once the crime lab showed up and sprayed the garage with luminol or other chemicals then the extent of the spatter and splatter became evident and while we don't yet have pictures of this testing happening, it is reasonable to believe that it occurred and will no doubt play out prominently at trial.

Fd and possibly and accomplice did the best they could to clean up the 69/71 Welles Garage but based on the forensic evidence they didn't erase their movements by any stretch of the imagination as it was clear that blood evidence (of which we only have a portion) is extensive IMO:

View attachment 233641 View attachment 233644

MOO

But it wasn't dripping from the surfaces was it? SW and AW mention signs of pooling, that was obvious to attending officers and I merely wondered how obvious it was seeing as LA did not see it.

 

[bubby girl]

You've been asking how LA took the kids to NYC. FD atty tried to pin her down in the civil trial with that question. It had nothing to do with the civil trial. The atty just wanted to make her look bad. She likely did what she had to do to get them to NYC even if the vehicle she was driving wasn't suitable to hold all of them. It has nothing to do with the murder though. IMO.

And LA could have been thinking that JD ended up taking the suburban..

 

[enelram]

And to continue on my previous post about Michelle Troconis and
her handling of the body bags and disposal around
Middle St., Bristol, I'll go a step further and suggest that the reason KM is so quiet and protective of FD is because his job as FD's
Male Crime Assistant was to dispose of the remaining body parts by using his boat and
taking them to some large lake or reservoir
in Ma. or out off shore in Ct.
So, IMO, Michelle Troconis and Kent Malwhinney both helped dispose of the body.
And because they're both so complicit, neither
really wants to come clean because of the grue
someness of their deeds.
Both are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

 

[Nikynoo]

Sorry but have to respectfully disagree with this @Nikynoo. 47 threads exist that IMO work through a mountain of evidence (a good portion of which didn't come from LE, Atty Colangelo or CSP). Sadly there are many more questions that we don't have answers to vs. those that we do have answers to based on the limited information that has been shared by LE. Unlike other cases where there has been ongoing dialog from LE we have had NONE of this from CSP or Atty Colangelo so this community has pulled together and pieced things together the best that we can and its been like we have largely been in the dark. Unlike other missing cases where family and friends share a lot of information WE HAVE HAD NOTHING from this typical source either. We were also derailed by Press coverage that was tainted by Atty. P. repeating the 'alibi scripts' for months.

I would also like to say specifically that there is ZERO in the evidence that I can see that IMO leads me to believe that MT played no role in the planning and execution of this horrific murder of JFD. YET, we see people introducing this idea over and over again, IMO in a very organised fashion which leads me to be quite suspicious of their motives in all of this. I would just ask that these people read MT AW1-3 prior to posting the repeated suggestions that MT 'didn't know' or 'she couldn't have done it' or 'it was impossible that she was there' kind of comments.

Yes, this is frustrating to @HopeForTheBest and others who have been here and have read the source documents as these kinds of comments have ZERO connection to the facts as presented by LE about MT. If people want to engage in questioning LE facts or present theories about conspiracy etc. then my suggestion would be to simply head over to Facebook where there are 1,000s of like minded conspiracy theorists to provide entertainment. We have tried very hard to find quality information, source documents and stay on track with regard to facts presented by LE in the AWs and SW and stay away from conspiracy theories under the guise of 'testing the evidence objectively IMO.

What has been happening recently is that many folks that haven't taken the time to read the source documents in the case (Yes, 3 AWs for Fd and MT EACH and 1 for KM and the portion of SWs released by LE) continue to circle back to conversations that have gone on for threads and threads on particular issues and where general consensus exists. Many here believe this behaviour to be organised and trollish in its execution.

Many people (myself included) have been here from the beginning on this case and have invested a large amount of time to find and read source documents. So, to see people questioning whether something was stated in an AW for example without taking the time to go back and look it up simply seems unproductive and intentionally diversionary or even questioning whether LE was correct in the statement made in an AW. When I see one of these questions many times I will take the time to answer the question if I know the answer as that is what typically happens on WS, we help each other out. BUT, when these questions keep coming and coming in a way that leads me, and others, to believe the questions are trollish then I will make the personal decision to cease answering such questions that IMO are clearly documented in the AWs and SW dump that have been posted here and exist in the Media thread for anyone that is interested in reading them.

I hope you take this post in the spirit that it is intended as we would like to keep moving using the limited information that we have and we know that the information we have is highly imperfect and incomplete. There are pieces of the crime that we continue to explore again and again (say the 40 min gap on Lapham or timeline at 80MS or role of KM or Fd and/or accomplice at Welles or the cell phones in the JFd Suburban) because there is imperfect information and there remain many different theories as to what happened and we still don't have consensus on what happened at Lapham for example. Progress is slow and frustrating at times and sometimes we do have to go backwards, but we are making slow progress here I think.

MOO

You called me a troll? Really? I appreciate that you and others have been following this case since the beginning, but that does not mean that you cannot afford some civility to new comers. We all have different ways to analyse information. Because I don't see things the way you do, does not mean I am a troll. I have read and re-read the SW (yes all 400 plus pages of them) and all AW's and I simply do not see that MT is involved in the murder of Jennifer on the basis of the evidence contained in those warrants. You have stated in your posts that you think (in your opinion) that MT was there, despite there being no evidence released or charges bought to support your opinion. Do you not think that if LE had evidence that shows MT was anywhere near New Canaan, they would have charged her with Murder or being an Accessory?
Do I post negatively about your opinions? No, I do not.

Edited for typo

 

[BellaVita]

Ex#12 - interior and exterior doorknobs with bloodlike stains (KM+) and latenUpatent prints (CA fumed)

Ex#13 - one (1) used paper towel roll with bloodlike stains (KM+)

Ex#14 - two (2) swabs of bloodlike stain (KM+) ·

Ex#15 - two (2) swabs of blood like stain (KM+)


Ex#35 - two (2) swabs of bloodlike stain G19 (KM+)

Ex#36 - two (2) swabs of bloodlike stain G20 (KM+)

Ex#37 - two (2) swabs of bloodlike stain C2 (KM+)

Ex#38- two (2) swabs of bloodlike stain 83 (KM+)

Ex#39 - two (2) swabs of blood like stain B 11 (KM+)

Ex#40 - two (2) swabs of bloodlike stain A 15 (KM+)

Ex#41 - two (2) swabs of blood like stain A 18 (KM+)

Ex#42 - fragment of paper towel with bloodlike stains

Ex#43 - fragment of paper towel with bloodlike stains

Ex#44 - fragment of paper towel with bloodlike stains

Ex#45 - two (2) swabs of bloodlike stain (KM+)

Ex#46 - two (2) swabs of bloodlike stain (KM+)

Ex#47 - two (2) swabs of bloodlike stain (KM-)

Ex#48 - two (2) swabs of bloodlike stain (KM+)

Ex#49 - two (2) swabs of bloodlike stain (KM- )

Ex#50 - two (2) swabs of bloodlike stain (KM- )

Ex#51 - two (2) swabs of bloodlike stain (KM+)

Ex#52 - two (2) swabs of bloodlike stain (KM-)

Ex#53 - two (2) swabs of blood like stain (KM+)


Ex#59 - two (2) swabs of bloodlike stain (KM+)

Ex#60 - two (2) swabs of bloodlike stain (KM+)

Ex#61 - two (2) swabs of bloodlike stain (KM+)

Ex#62 - two (2) swabs of bloodlike stain (KM+)

Ex#63 - two (2) swabs of bloodlike stain (KM+)

Ex#64 - two (2) swabs of bloodlike stain (KM+)

Ex#65 - two (2) swabs of bloodlike stain (KM+)

Ex#66 - two (2) swabs of bloodlike stain (KM+)

Ex#67 - two (2) swabs of bloodlike stain (KM+)

Ex#68 - fragments of paper towel(s) with bloodlike stains
Ex#78 - two (2) swabs of bloodlike stain (KM+)

Ex#79 - two (2) swabs of bloodlike stain (KM+)

Above is evidence of blood taken from WL.
Don't forget, 10 rolls of missing paper towels.

 

[auspex]

We did learn that KM was at 80MS on the evening before the murder. We don't know if he was at the 4Jx party or whether he stayed overnight at either 80MS or 4JX and we don't know if he was seen in New Canaan either on the murder date or before.

I just completed another pass at all the AWs/SWs and found myself increasingly intrigued by the activity on 5/23. Figured I'd share the timeline I've started compiling to help clarify the movements of FD, MT, and especially KM on 5/23. I've also bolded some questions I'm hoping you excellent sleuthers might be able to help answer...

4:51 PM - FD's Ford Raptor drives north on Ely Rd towards 4JX (Eli Rd surveillance just south of 4JX)
Source: Residential surveillance, FD AW3

4:54 PM - PG's Toyota Tacoma followed by FD's Ford Raptor drive south on Ely Rd from 4JX toward 80 MS
Source: Residential surveillance, FD AW3

*If FD driving one vehicle, who is driving the second? MT? KM? (We don't know where PG was working on 5/23, but my guess is he was at 61 Sturbridge and not driving his car to 80 MS).

4:57 PM - Tacoma and Ford Raptor pull into 80 MS
Source: Residential surveillance, FD AW3

5:01 PM - Ford Raptor leaves 80 MS
Source: Residential surveillance, FD AW3

*Tacoma stays at 80 MS, so two people must be in the Raptor, right?

5:04 PM - Ely Rd surveillance shows the Ford Raptor traveling northbound towards 4JX
Source: Residential surveillance, FD AW3

5:10 PM - Ford Raptor located at 4JX, gear shifted into “drive”
Source: OnStar module, FD AW3

*Shouldn’t this be “park”? Or did FD go somewhere else in the Raptor immediately following his arrival at 4JX? Dropping MT off so she could prepare for the evening’s party with the Haines’ while he finished up prep with KM?

5:21, 5:23 PM - KW's phone pings at 4JX
Source: KM cell/residential surveillance, KM AW

*From AW: “These times coincide with the time at which Dulos left his dinner party guests on the night before Jennifer’s disappearance to drive to Stop & Shop in Simsbury because he needed more meat to cook. Prior to his device traveling to the area of Stop & Shop, Dulos’ device traveled to the area of 80 Mountain Spring Road. Residential surveillance confirmed Dulos drove onto the property of 80 Mountain Spring Road, remaining there for approximately seven minutes.”

**KM arrives at 4JX. KM/FD travel together from 4JX to 80 MS (either in their respective cars or in one car, AW unclear) -- FD leaves dinner party and MT stays behind? The “getting more meat” excuse is obviously a cover, but for what? Does this interaction feel last-minute/unplanned to anyone else?

5:32 PM - FD's Chevy Suburban travels south on Ely Rd (leaving 4JX, headed to 80 MS)
Source: Residential surveillance, FD AW3

**A note about FD's 2015 Chevy Suburban: when this car is described on surveillance footage coming/going from 80 MS on 5/24, the AW clearly notes a Thule rack on the top of the car. The AW does NOT mention this Thule when describing this car's movements on 5/23. The significance of this really depends on how exacting LE is being with their language (and TBH, the many typos/errors in the AWs/SWs does not fill me with confidence), but if the varying description is intentional, it implies the Thule was attached to the Chevy Suburban sometime after the return to 4JX the evening of 5/23 and before the 1:36 PM arrival at 80 MS on 5/24. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen a Thule on any evidence lists. Where is the Thule and what was it used for?

5:33 PM - FD calls KM
Source: FD phone records, FD AW3

*Call takes place just as they’re leaving 4JX-- coordinating something? Location? Again, something about this whole interaction feels impulsive and unplanned.

5:35 PM - FD’s Chevy Suburban pulls into 80 MS
Source: Residential surveillance, FD AW3

5:41 PM - FD’s Chevy Suburban leaves 80 MS
Source: Residential Surveillance, FD AW3

*FD/KM at 80 MS for 6-7 minutes. That's a short amount of time to do anything major, so was this a conversation? FD setting KM up to spend the night there? Hand-off of something (missing Glock, burner phone for the next day)?

?? - FD’s phone travels from 80 MS to Simsbury Stop and Shop
Source: KM AW

**And, assumedly, back to 4JX after**

9:53-10:23 PM - CTD: 4JX
Source: SW

~10:00 PM - FD's cell phone arrives at 4JX and stays here until 1:16 PM on 5/24
Source: Celebrite download of FD’s handset, SW

*Where did FD/FD’s cell go prior to the 10:00 PM return to 4JX? He must have returned from S&S sooner than 10:00 PM with the meat. So then he goes out again after and returns at 10 PM? What is he doing?

10:10-10:40 PM - CTD: 585 Middle Rd, Farmington
Source: SW

**What’s of significance in the surrounding area? The exact location of 585 Middle Rd is the parking lot of a Dementia Care Facility located on 45 South Rd, but there are several nearby residences on Middle Rd that would be covered by this CTD -- could be nothing/could be something, but one of these residencies serves as the “home business” of a local roofer/landscaper.

**Since FD’s phone stays at 4JX, this CTD is either for: MT or KM. Or maybe another phone of FD's? Who do you think? (My guess is KM.)



^^ as indicated, the majority of this is from the AWs/SWs, but all questions/theorizing is MOO.

 

[MollyDDD]

I'm still hung up on the phone ping on Birch St., Bristol.
I have a couple new thoughts on this and it involves Michelle Troconis's involvement.

Who's old stomping grounds is right around
Middle St., Birch St., Pine St, ESPM headquarters? That's right, Michelle Troconis.
She would most likely have thought of using or being in this area rather than FD because of her familiarity of this neighborhood.
And again, having lived nearby many years ago, this area is not a place that locals go to
or near UNLESS they go there was a specific purpose. It's an old, rundown semi-industrial
mixed use neighborhood of little old houses,
small factories, public and private dumps and landfills which accept normal waste and toxic materials. Many run down rentals and a few
apartment sites there also. Not what you'd call a good neighborhood.
So I believe this errand into Birch/Middle St. was run by Michelle as an errand for FD.
Because I'm convinced she participated in some of the post mortem handling of the body
due to her dna being on several bags, and because I suspect the body was likely desecrated after death for both disposal and possibly due to joint hatred by both FD and Michelle Troconis. It's very possible, IMO, that Michelle Troconis may have been delivering parts of the body, maybe the severed head and hands, re-wrapped after unwrapping and being
dismembered at 80 MS or DC, and then repackaged in a container like a cooler, driven
to the Middle St. area and disposed of. Either
in a lake or swamp, or a pre-dug grave, or left
as toxic waste at one of the dumps/landfills there.
I believe that we'll eventually read that the phone pings around Birch St. , Bristol was FD's
female crime assistant, Michelle Troconis.
Come on Kent, we need you to come clean.
You know all about this errand, tell LE all you know.

I pray he does come clean. With FD taking the easy way out and MT being the tight lipped “female dog” that she is, Kent could put the pieces together and perhaps JD’s family can move on through the grieving process.

I’ll try:

My theory is that blood that was on darker surfaces such as the side of the car and the garbage cans was not obvious to persons not looking for it and apparently not cleaned up by the murderer(s). Blood other places was cleaned up by the murderer(s). But they did not do a good job from a LE detective point of view.

When LA arrived, she assumed she had to get her charges to the city on a certain schedule. She also was with 4 children who had all kinds of side issues and conversations about ketchup, lacrosse, you-tube, whose turn it is to do what when, fairness, and whatever else kids talk about.

Trying to get kids with you, focused on keeping to a schedule, one thing you do not do is spend too much time letting the topic of convo derail progress. “Yes, that’s weird, Mom forgot her purse... who can be in charge of bringing it to my car?”

When LA arrived, it was apparent something was weird about the day and evening before, but she was likely focused on keeping herself and the children on schedule. Jennifer was not yet missing. The weirdness was going to be a story, but a story for a time when she was not trying to shuffle 4 kids.

When LE arrived, Jennifer was missing, and LA, among others, was now worried. They reported Fotis’ past abuse and that he had a gun. LE was looking for blood. They saw some with their eyes, and by rumors, the garage “lit up” under black light which glows when it hits bodily fluids (among other things).

LA when in the middle of picking up the kids, and LE, when investigating a missing Jennifer who was quite possibly hurt by an armed abusive ex, entered the garage with entirely different mind sets.

Does that make sense?

I have another point. It does seem like LA handled the situation by using her car. (I don’t know, but it seems possible since team Fotis was trying to intimidate her about that.) If so, team Fotis got lucky. Maybe the blood on the RR would have been seen earlier, and LE would have been in Farmington in time for the drive back and forth party. 80MS <=> 4JX.

(I wonder if the RR keys were available? If they were where they belong, but LA used her car because she didn’t use the RR without permission or plans, that is not weird. If she would have used it but couldn’t find the keys, that is very weird.)

Team Fotis should be sending LA thank you cards for not using the RR. Whatever was happening at the secondary crime scene could have been interrupted, and there may never have been a dumpster date night.

Not to mention the recent purchase of the 12 pack of paper towel rolls.

 

[bubby girl]

You called me a troll? Really? I appreciate that you and others have been following this case since the beginning, but that does not mean that you cannot afford some civility to new comers. We all have different ways to analyse information. Because I don't see things the way you do, does not mean I am a troll. I have read and re-read the SW (yes all 400 plus pages of them) and all AW's and I simply do not see that MT is involved in the murder of Jennifer on the basis of the evidence contained in those warrants. You have stated in your posts that you think (in your opinion) that MT was there, despite there being no evidence released or charges bought to support your opinion. Do you not think that if LE had evidence that shows MT was anywhere near New Canaan, they would have charged her with Murder or being an Accessory?
Do I post negatively about your opinions? No, I do not.

Edited for typo

i guess you don’t want to take it in the spirit it was meant, as afitzy stated...the previous 46 threads is a lot to read and view all attachments too..

 

[enelram]

i guess you don’t want to take it in the spirit it was meant, as afitzy stated...the previous 46 threads is a lot to read and view all attachments too..

But all the new trollish posters think we don't recognize why they're here? We know.
It's so obvious it's actually funny.

 

[Jmoose]

I think you are missing my point. If the blood was obvious, why did LA not spot it?

I think maybe BellaVita meant that the police were looking for it, and so because they knew there was a problem, and they are experienced at spotting such things, they easily found it. At least, that is how I read it. I mean, some effort (10 rolls of paper towels worth of effort) was used in the process of cleaning up blood, so I think it wasn’t immediately obvious to someone who wasn’t looking for any sign of trouble, wasn’t experienced at seeing it, and who was preoccupied with 4 lively children and the process of getting them into NYC on time without the proper vehicle.

 

[RoosterRock]

I'm still hung up on the phone ping on Birch St., Bristol.
I have a couple new thoughts on this and it involves Michelle Troconis's involvement.

Who's old stomping grounds is right around
Middle St., Birch St., Pine St, ESPM headquarters? That's right, Michelle Troconis.
She would most likely have thought of using or being in this area rather than FD because of her familiarity of this neighborhood.
And again, having lived nearby many years ago, this area is not a place that locals go to
or near UNLESS they go there was a specific purpose. It's an old, rundown semi-industrial
mixed use neighborhood of little old houses,
small factories, public and private dumps and landfills which accept normal waste and toxic materials. Many run down rentals and a few
apartment sites there also. Not what you'd call a good neighborhood.
So I believe this errand into Birch/Middle St. was run by Michelle as an errand for FD.
Because I'm convinced she participated in some of the post mortem handling of the body
due to her dna being on several bags, and because I suspect the body was likely desecrated after death for both disposal and possibly due to joint hatred by both FD and Michelle Troconis. It's very possible, IMO, that Michelle Troconis may have been delivering parts of the body, maybe the severed head and hands, re-wrapped after unwrapping and being
dismembered at 80 MS or DC, and then repackaged in a container like a cooler, driven
to the Middle St. area and disposed of. Either
in a lake or swamp, or a pre-dug grave, or left
as toxic waste at one of the dumps/landfills there.
I believe that we'll eventually read that the phone pings around Birch St. , Bristol was FD's
female crime assistant, Michelle Troconis.
Come on Kent, we need you to come clean.
You know all about this errand, tell LE all you know.

Fascinating theory.
I hope LE would have arrived at this possible reason for the ping as well, once they did their due diligence on her work history, not a far reach.
Good detective work, let's see if anyone can add to this theory.....

 

[BellaVita]

I just completed another pass at all the AWs/SWs and found myself increasingly intrigued by the activity on 5/23. Figured I'd share the timeline I've started compiling to help clarify the movements of FD, MT, and especially KM on 5/23. I've also bolded some questions I'm hoping you excellent sleuthers might be able to help answer...
4:51 PM - FD's Ford Raptor drives north on Ely Rd towards 4JX (Eli Rd surveillance just south of 4JX)
Source: Residential surveillance, FD AW3
4:54 PM - PG's Toyota Tacoma followed by FD's Ford Raptor drive south on Ely Rd from 4JX toward 80 MS
Source: Residential surveillance, FD AW3
*If FD driving one vehicle, who is driving the second? MT? KM? (We don't know where PG was working on 5/23, but my guess is he was at 61 Sturbridge and not driving his car to 80 MS).
4:57 PM - Tacoma and Ford Raptor pull into 80 MS
Source: Residential surveillance, FD AW3
5:01 PM - Ford Raptor leaves 80 MS
Source: Residential surveillance, FD AW3
*Tacoma stays at 80 MS, so two people must be in the Raptor, right?
5:04 PM - Ely Rd surveillance shows the Ford Raptor traveling northbound towards 4JX
Source: Residential surveillance, FD AW3
5:10 PM - Ford Raptor located at 4JX, gear shifted into “drive”
Source: OnStar module, FD AW3
*Shouldn’t this be “park”? Or did FD go somewhere else in the Raptor immediately following his arrival at 4JX? Dropping MT off so she could prepare for the evening’s party with the Haines’ while he finished up prep with KM?

RSBM: Thank you for putting this together. I'll address this 1st part.
I believe PG was driving the Raptor back from Sturbridge at 4:51 and that FD was driving the Toyota at 4:54. Yes, they were going in opposite directions. I think it's likely that FD called/texted PG and told PG that he wanted to drop the Toyota at MS and needed a ride back to 4JC. At 5:10 the Raptor shifted into drive at 4JC and PG went home for the evening. Up until this point, it is all FD and PG, IMO.

Interesting info from AW about the Toyota situation:

ALSO:


Directing PG not to stop at 4JC in the morning when that was usually not done anyway. FD wanted to make sure PG would not find out that he wasn't home. Told him, meeting with lawyer.
ALIBI, baby!

 

[Jmoose]

You called me a troll? Really? I appreciate that you and others have been following this case since the beginning, but that does not mean that you cannot afford some civility to new comers. We all have different ways to analyse information. Because I don't see things the way you do, does not mean I am a troll. I have read and re-read the SW (yes all 400 plus pages of them) and all AW's and I simply do not see that MT is involved in the murder of Jennifer on the basis of the evidence contained in those warrants. You have stated in your posts that you think (in your opinion) that MT was there, despite there being no evidence released or charges bought to support your opinion. Do you not think that if LE had evidence that shows MT was anywhere near New Canaan, they would have charged her with Murder or being an Accessory?
Do I post negatively about your opinions? No, I do not.

Edited for typo

Dear Nikynoo-MT did not need to be in New Canaan to be guilty of conspiracy in a murder case. The fact that they have not dropped the case against her after the suicide of Fotis Dulos tells me that they do have evidence which shows that they have charged her appropriately. Especially since now that he is dead, and she still hasn’t told what she knows (a little, if she was merely an accessory after the fact, as we know she was, or a lot if she actively helped plan). She knows at least something, because she was present for the tossing away of evidence and cleaning blood covered vehicles...and still hasn’t said one word. Why is that? She is really, really rolling the dice that she won’t be convicted.

 

[Ruminations]

Respectfully, that is not my theory at all. I have previously posted that the MEs opinion is just that, albeit an expert one. But it is something that needs to be proved, does it not? I know its not how many posters approach the evidence, but I like to turn it over and test it. I'm sorry if my approach doesn't suit you or others.

Not everything is worth picking apart. It is anti-progress.

I don’t see any reasonable grounds for doubting the ME, especially in light of there being no affirmative evidence to the contrary. LA, expecting an afternoon moving kids around and looking into a dark cave compared to outdoors, didn’t see the bloodbath that was apparent in the evening to LE eyes with LE tools and expecting there could be foul play.

That is not only not affirmative, it is not even a very effective negative jab into the ME theory. If the ME put a decimal in a wrong place, or seemed to use the wrong information, or used outdated medical assumptions, that might put a good, negative jab in the MEopinion. We don’t have the report yet. Nor do team Fotis’ attorneys either, as far as I know. When they get it, they can ask their experts.

But once again, why would we care about the taking down reasonable evidence? It is not a way to follow leads to theories.

We are trying to sleuth. We use all reasonable information to build theories upon. We don’t come up with whacky reasons to doubt reasonable information.

It’s not about you personally at all. It is about the goals and purpose of hanging here at Websleuths. Your approach is negative and raising doubts about reasonable data in the absence of an affirmative reason. It is not sleuthing, it’s taking stuff apart.

This sounds far-fetched, because it is, but this would be affirmative.

Fiction:
“MSM is reporting a secret underground cash only outpatient surgery and trauma center accessible by trap door from Waveny Park.”
(Link to fictional article)

If you posted that, there would be an affirmative reason to begin to consider that Jennifer is not dead.

You stated you are not involved with criminal law, but if you wanted to problem out how to defend this case, that would probably be very interesting to some. That would be a different site. “Accused murderer defenders discussion.” I would enjoy reading it and learning. If it doesn’t exist you can use the idea, no charge.

 

[MollyDDD]

Sorry but have to respectfully disagree with this @Nikynoo. 47 threads exist that IMO work through a mountain of evidence (a good portion of which didn't come from LE, Atty Colangelo or CSP). Sadly there are many more questions that we don't have answers to vs. those that we do have answers to based on the limited information that has been shared by LE. Unlike other cases where there has been ongoing dialog from LE we have had NONE of this from CSP or Atty Colangelo so this community has pulled together and pieced things together the best that we can and its been like we have largely been in the dark. Unlike other missing cases where family and friends share a lot of information WE HAVE HAD NOTHING from this typical source either. We were also derailed by Press coverage that was tainted by Atty. P. repeating the 'alibi scripts' for months.

I would also like to say specifically that there is ZERO in the evidence that I can see that IMO leads me to believe that MT played no role in the planning and execution of this horrific murder of JFD. YET, we see people introducing this idea over and over again, IMO in a very organised fashion which leads me to be quite suspicious of their motives in all of this. I would just ask that these people read MT AW1-3 prior to posting the repeated suggestions that MT 'didn't know' or 'she couldn't have done it' or 'it was impossible that she was there' kind of comments.

Yes, this is frustrating to @HopeForTheBest and others who have been here and have read the source documents as these kinds of comments have ZERO connection to the facts as presented by LE about MT. If people want to engage in questioning LE facts or present theories about conspiracy etc. then my suggestion would be to simply head over to Facebook where there are 1,000s of like minded conspiracy theorists to provide entertainment. We have tried very hard to find quality information, source documents and stay on track with regard to facts presented by LE in the AWs and SW and stay away from conspiracy theories under the guise of 'testing the evidence objectively IMO.

What has been happening recently is that many folks that haven't taken the time to read the source documents in the case (Yes, 3 AWs for Fd and MT EACH and 1 for KM and the portion of SWs released by LE) continue to circle back to conversations that have gone on for threads and threads on particular issues and where general consensus exists. Many here believe this behaviour to be organised and trollish in its execution.

Many people (myself included) have been here from the beginning on this case and have invested a large amount of time to find and read source documents. So, to see people questioning whether something was stated in an AW for example without taking the time to go back and look it up simply seems unproductive and intentionally diversionary or even questioning whether LE was correct in the statement made in an AW. When I see one of these questions many times I will take the time to answer the question if I know the answer as that is what typically happens on WS, we help each other out. BUT, when these questions keep coming and coming in a way that leads me, and others, to believe the questions are trollish then I will make the personal decision to cease answering such questions that IMO are clearly documented in the AWs and SW dump that have been posted here and exist in the Media thread for anyone that is interested in reading them.

I hope you take this post in the spirit that it is intended as we would like to keep moving using the limited information that we have and we know that the information we have is highly imperfect and incomplete. There are pieces of the crime that we continue to explore again and again (say the 40 min gap on Lapham or timeline at 80MS or role of KM or Fd and/or accomplice at Welles or the cell phones in the JFd Suburban) because there is imperfect information and there remain many different theories as to what happened and we still don't have consensus on what happened at Lapham for example. Progress is slow and frustrating at times and sometimes we do have to go backwards, but we are making slow progress here I think.

MOO

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::hugs::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Scroll & Roll.

 

[annekris]

I just completed another pass at all the AWs/SWs and found myself increasingly intrigued by the activity on 5/23. Figured I'd share the timeline I've started compiling to help clarify the movements of FD, MT, and especially KM on 5/23. I've also bolded some questions I'm hoping you excellent sleuthers might be able to help answer...

4:51 PM - FD's Ford Raptor drives north on Ely Rd towards 4JX (Eli Rd surveillance just south of 4JX)
Source: Residential surveillance, FD AW3

4:54 PM - PG's Toyota Tacoma followed by FD's Ford Raptor drive south on Ely Rd from 4JX toward 80 MS
Source: Residential surveillance, FD AW3

*If FD driving one vehicle, who is driving the second? MT? KM? (We don't know where PG was working on 5/23, but my guess is he was at 61 Sturbridge and not driving his car to 80 MS).

4:57 PM - Tacoma and Ford Raptor pull into 80 MS
Source: Residential surveillance, FD AW3

5:01 PM - Ford Raptor leaves 80 MS
Source: Residential surveillance, FD AW3

*Tacoma stays at 80 MS, so two people must be in the Raptor, right?

5:04 PM - Ely Rd surveillance shows the Ford Raptor traveling northbound towards 4JX
Source: Residential surveillance, FD AW3

5:10 PM - Ford Raptor located at 4JX, gear shifted into “drive”
Source: OnStar module, FD AW3

*Shouldn’t this be “park”? Or did FD go somewhere else in the Raptor immediately following his arrival at 4JX? Dropping MT off so she could prepare for the evening’s party with the Haines’ while he finished up prep with KM?

5:21, 5:23 PM - KW's phone pings at 4JX
Source: KM cell/residential surveillance, KM AW

*From AW: “These times coincide with the time at which Dulos left his dinner party guests on the night before Jennifer’s disappearance to drive to Stop & Shop in Simsbury because he needed more meat to cook. Prior to his device traveling to the area of Stop & Shop, Dulos’ device traveled to the area of 80 Mountain Spring Road. Residential surveillance confirmed Dulos drove onto the property of 80 Mountain Spring Road, remaining there for approximately seven minutes.”

**KM arrives at 4JX. KM/FD travel together from 4JX to 80 MS (either in their respective cars or in one car, AW unclear) -- FD leaves dinner party and MT stays behind? The “getting more meat” excuse is obviously a cover, but for what? Does this interaction feel last-minute/unplanned to anyone else?

5:32 PM - FD's Chevy Suburban travels south on Ely Rd (leaving 4JX, headed to 80 MS)
Source: Residential surveillance, FD AW3

**A note about FD's 2015 Chevy Suburban: when this car is described on surveillance footage coming/going from 80 MS on 5/24, the AW clearly notes a Thule rack on the top of the car. The AW does NOT mention this Thule when describing this car's movements on 5/23. The significance of this really depends on how exacting LE is being with their language (and TBH, the many typos/errors in the AWs/SWs does not fill me with confidence), but if the varying description is intentional, it implies the Thule was attached to the Chevy Suburban sometime after the return to 4JX the evening of 5/23 and before the 1:36 PM arrival at 80 MS on 5/24. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't seen a Thule on any evidence lists. Where is the Thule and what was it used for?

5:33 PM - FD calls KM
Source: FD phone records, FD AW3

*Call takes place just as they’re leaving 4JX-- coordinating something? Location? Again, something about this whole interaction feels impulsive and unplanned.

5:35 PM - FD’s Chevy Suburban pulls into 80 MS
Source: Residential surveillance, FD AW3

5:41 PM - FD’s Chevy Suburban leaves 80 MS
Source: Residential Surveillance, FD AW3

*FD/KM at 80 MS for 6-7 minutes. That's a short amount of time to do anything major, so was this a conversation? FD setting KM up to spend the night there? Hand-off of something (missing Glock, burner phone for the next day)?

?? - FD’s phone travels from 80 MS to Simsbury Stop and Shop
Source: KM AW

**And, assumedly, back to 4JX after**

9:53-10:23 PM - CTD: 4JX
Source: SW

~10:00 PM - FD's cell phone arrives at 4JX and stays here until 1:16 PM on 5/24
Source: Celebrite download of FD’s handset, SW

*Where did FD/FD’s cell go prior to the 10:00 PM return to 4JX? He must have returned from S&S sooner than 10:00 PM with the meat. So then he goes out again after and returns at 10 PM? What is he doing?

10:10-10:40 PM - CTD: 585 Middle Rd, Farmington
Source: SW

**What’s of significance in the surrounding area? The exact location of 585 Middle Rd is the parking lot of a Dementia Care Facility located on 45 South Rd, but there are several nearby residences on Middle Rd that would be covered by this CTD -- could be nothing/could be something, but one of these residencies serves as the “home business” of a local roofer/landscaper.

**Since FD’s phone stays at 4JX, this CTD is either for: MT or KM. Or maybe another phone of FD's? Who do you think? (My guess is KM.)



^^ as indicated, the majority of this is from the AWs/SWs, but all questions/theorizing is MOO.

Thank you so much for bringing this timeline of events front and center. This game of musical chairs by FD and his co-conspirator(s) with the multiple vehicles not to mention the back and forth cell phone pings of MT and KM before and after the crime point to one thing and one thing only— the direct involvement of both MT and KM. Guaranteed that LE has much much more than we saw in the AWs. KM was arrested at GUNPOINT while fleeing from LE near Tolland CT. MT repeatedly LIED about FD whereabouts the morning of the crime. Etc etc etc.

 

[Woodswarrior]

Jmoose said: ↑
What makes you think that it is unlikely the ponchos were worn to commit the murder?

Well, ponchos are usually mid length and if this is the case here, then they wouldn't provide much protection as compared to overalls. Full length ponchos would be too unwieldy. They may have just been in garage along with the pillows and other camping supplies. IMO, i don't see the ponchos coming from Farmington. No that it matters.

also the aw said jd Dna only was found on the ponchos.i don’t recall mention of blood?(correct me if I’m wrong) if they were used for the attack or dismemberment you would expect there to be blood on the ponchos. Moo

 

[Ruminations]

What is making the ponchos such a big deal?

If the poncho is from a New Canaan camping kit, you must acquit!