Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #20

[BigAl16]

Can couples get sealed in a temple despite being married to someone else? For example, could Lori and Chad have been sealed to each other before Tammy and Charles had even died?

No.

 

[utahobserver]

MOO - If that was my kid I would tell him you made a choice, now prepare for the consequences. I love my children, but actions have consequences.

What we already know that Chad is guilty of:

- That he has been caught lying to LE
- That he lied about the kids to several people, including TD parents.
- That TD had been dead for less than 3 weeks, when he decides to get remarried.
- He called Melanie and asked her to lie to LE for LVD

Here's what we strongly suspect:

- He has been having an affair for several months. According to KW she sent a flirtatious video back in Jan 2019. So, the flirting has been going on at least that long.
- That he has some level of involvement with the kids missing.
- That his wife's death was not natural.

Am I forgetting anything?

If his parents think he is going to come out of this unscathed they aren't even paying attention to the facts. MOO

MOO- Sadly, for those who are incriminated directly or by association, seemingly on daily basis in this case now, facts and truth don’t matter, it’s about faith. Faith is the red thread that is connecting every player together. This faith has combined and contorted belief systems of several groups: religious extremists, survivalists, and antigovernment protestors. This case has gotten large not because of these beautiful missing children-it has gotten large because the disappearance of these beautiful children has turned over a rock and shone a light on these system of beliefs that has been brewing for years - waiting for instabilities in our society to justify their fears, giving them a self-righteous purpose to act.

I really commend all those that are speaking out, to the media and here on the forum. This takes moral courage. I commend Nate Eaton for the deep dive into the motivations behind this story. He is an outstanding journalist.

Does anyone find it strange that a few things are missing from the PC affidavit? The purpose of the affidavit is effectively to prove a negative, to prove that Lori has not arranged for support. They did that by confirming she is not paying anyone. But wouldn't they talk to close relatives? I wonder if they talked with Lori's parents. They would be an obvious choice. No mention is made of that. I know they are not required to talk to people like taht but I would think that they would and would mention it.

Lori’s parents appear to be antigovernment protestors. We can’t sleuth them to determine their beliefs. I’ve said before, apple falling not far from the tree is my thinking here. Both Alex and Lori have/had psychological issues. This stems from somewhere. Maybe Dr. Phil will talk about that Thursday.

Shout Out to the FBI. They have their work cut out for them with this case. I continue to be grateful for their faith in our democracy and rule of law.

 

[FindingJoLee]

"Prompted" isn't unique to LDS. I've heard it all my life. Jmo

It's definitely not unique. I've heard people of other faiths use it to describe how they moved on their personal spiritual path. I don't live in Utah (not sure that matters, guess I'm just clarifying that it isn't something people 'picked up' in a heavily LDS area.)

Also, I don't know what being a "card carrying member" is, unless it's being used colloquially. There is no card, you don't need one. There's a piece of paper that becomes a recommend after it has signatures, but that's for specific participation in the temple, not for worship or activities. Maybe it was meant to say "No, she really IS a member." Which she really is.

 

[CSIDreamer]

It's definitely not unique. I've heard people of other faiths use it to describe how they moved on their personal spiritual path. I don't live in Utah (not sure that matters, guess I'm just clarifying that it isn't something people 'picked up' in a heavily LDS area.)

Also, I don't know what being a "card carrying member" is, unless it's being used colloquially. There is no card, you don't need one. There's a piece of paper that becomes a recommend after it has signatures, but that's for specific participation in the temple, not for worship or activities. Maybe it was meant to say "No, she really IS a member." Which she really is.

We've been told if you qualify for a temple recommend you get a card with a barcode on it. That can be scanned to allow access to the temple regular members can't get in to. Hence, card carrying members. Jmo

 

[FindingJoLee]

We've been told if you qualify for a temple recommend you get a card with a barcode on it. That can be scanned to allow access to the temple regular members can't get in to. Hence, card carrying members. Jmo

I guess I would just never, never refer to myself or anyone else that way.

 

[SuziQ]

It's definitely not unique. I've heard people of other faiths use it to describe how they moved on their personal spiritual path. I don't live in Utah (not sure that matters, guess I'm just clarifying that it isn't something people 'picked up' in a heavily LDS area.)

Also, I don't know what being a "card carrying member" is, unless it's being used colloquially. There is no card, you don't need one. There's a piece of paper that becomes a recommend after it has signatures, but that's for specific participation in the temple, not for worship or activities. Maybe it was meant to say "No, she really IS a member." Which she really is.

A card carrying member is just a term us non members use to refer to those with Temple recommends. Actually, I have heard members say this as well. No insult or anything intended. And in my limited experience, I really really doubt Lori has a Temple recommend. I really doubt this.

 

[SuziQ]

I guess I would just never, never refer to myself or anyone else that way.

It is not intended as a negative reference. It just is what It is.

I do not want to open a rabbit hole with this. I just wanted to simply answers a posters post.

 

[mrjitty]

It's almost as if LV should tell LE where the kids are rather than rot in jail ....

 

[BigAl16]

I think being a card carrying member is a step above regular membership. Jmo

Right, a temple recommend is needed, among other things, to get married in the temple. We don't know Lori's status in that regard. her regular membership is what she got transferred (or asked for it to be, not sure how long the processs takes).

 

[Gardener1850]

I am sceptical the new info of the past 2 days changes anything right now

We know LV and Chad have told people all kinds of stories over the months about where the kids are, including dead, or (Chad) that LV had no kids.

While our darling duo can refuse to give answers to LE, obviously that is more difficult in their day to day lives. So the fact that dear Chad has been telling his culty mates more nonsense means nothing IMO, unless specifics are given

Melani is more interesting but is hearsay as to content and doesn't actually suggest the kids are stashed in my view. Indeed it feels quite sinister. One possible explanation is Melani herself needing to explain things away.

So yeah - until LV herself puts a version on the record, I don't take the idea seriously.

I agree. I don't think it changes anything. All it changes for me is that we have some more indications of what Lori and Chad were telling their inner circle. Do any of these people actually know anything from first hand knowledge/their own observation? Or do they only know what they have been told? Melani might be the one who has more first hand info/involvement but she was still living in AZ the month the kids disappeared and didn't move to Rexburg until Nov 4th (according to the PI who was surveiling her and GPS tracking her from around Oct 13th to Nov).

IMHO the police have released enough to show Lori and Chad as proven liars-- and not just that they told lies to the police (which someone who is anti-police/anti-government might justify in their minds) -- we have seen that Lori and Chad lied to their family and friends about the kids. Chad lied to his own parents and to Tammy's sister-- his sister-in-law for nearly 30 years! How do members of the AVOW forum reconcile Chad's simultaneously claiming this was a "custody issue" while telling his close family members that Lori's kids don't exist or are grown up and away at college? How do they explain the lie from Lori that Tylee died years ago? Is it okay in these circles to claim your child is dead if you are really hiding said child from the "big bad government" or from other relatives that you claim are not true believers or are money hungry? I'm dumbfounded if anyone still has faith in what Lori and/or Chad are telling them to believe. MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

that old phone they found or tablet in the storage locker could yeild some good results from this and some forensic computing

Yes, Lori also had two iPads in her car in Hawaii as well as the birth certificates. And Chad must be using something to communicate on AVOW three weeks ago as stated in the screenshots in the EI news post yesterday. I think there will be more screen shots to come as well.

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

 

[tresir2012]

It's definitely not unique. I've heard people of other faiths use it to describe how they moved on their personal spiritual path. I don't live in Utah (not sure that matters, guess I'm just clarifying that it isn't something people 'picked up' in a heavily LDS area.)

Also, I don't know what being a "card carrying member" is, unless it's being used colloquially. There is no card, you don't need one. There's a piece of paper that becomes a recommend after it has signatures, but that's for specific participation in the temple, not for worship or activities. Maybe it was meant to say "No, she really IS a member." Which she really is.

I have never heard of anyone saying " I am prompted to offer you a job". I think that sounded like a really dodgy offer of a job.

 

[tresir2012]

I agree. I don't think it changes anything. All it changes for me is that we have some more indications of what Lori and Chad were telling their inner circle. Do any of these people actually know anything from first hand knowledge/their own observation? Or do they only know what they have been told? Melani might be the one who has more first hand info/involvement but she was still living in AZ the month the kids disappeared and didn't move to Rexburg until Nov 4th (according to the PI who was surveiling her and GPS tracking her from around Oct 13th to Nov).

IMHO the police have released enough to show Lori and Chad as proven liars-- and not just that they told lies to the police (which someone who is anti-police/anti-government might justify in their minds) -- we have seen that Lori and Chad lied to their family and friends about the kids. Chad lied to his own parents and to Tammy's sister-- his sister-in-law for nearly 30 years! How do members of the AVOW forum reconcile Chad's simultaneously claiming this was a "custody issue" while telling his close family members that Lori's kids don't exist or are grown up and away at college? How do they explain the lie from Lori that Tylee died years ago? Is it okay in these circles to claim your child is dead if you are really hiding said child from the "big bad government" or from other relatives that you claim are not true believers or are money hungry? I'm dumbfounded if anyone still has faith in what Lori and/or Chad are telling them to believe. MOO.

Yes and we now have somebody completely new (MG) telling us that Lori asked her to lie about her children so this is in addition to what we already know about Chad and Lori. I would think AVOW should be sending new messages very soon to their paid up GRI members.

 

[155etta]

I could believe they did it once, but to then return and do it a second time is just stupidity. Also, the one kid remaining would remember what happened at Yellowstone the first time and surely would not go. Unless they were fooled into thinking they were going to grandma's. Have to say though it would explain why Lori needed a babysitter up to the 19th Sept with no Tylee around.

Why did Lori need a babysitter at all? She wasn't working that we know of. MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

A card carrying member is just a term us non members use to refer to those with Temple recommends. Actually, I have heard members say this as well. No insult or anything intended. And in my limited experience, I really really doubt Lori has a Temple recommend. I really doubt this.

Why do you doubt she had a Temple recommend? Do you also think her previous marriages have never been sealed in a Temple before?

 

[tresir2012]

Why did Lori need a babysitter at all? She wasn't working that we know of. MOO.

I think so she could go and see Chad and attend conferences, do podcasts etc. Assuming this is after Tylee was no longer around after her last sighting on the 8th Sept. MOO.

 

[Gardener1850]

I could believe they did it once, but to then return and do it a second time is just stupidity. Also, the one kid remaining would remember what happened at Yellowstone the first time and surely would not go. Unless they were fooled into thinking they were going to grandma's. Have to say though it would explain why Lori needed a babysitter up to the 19th Sept with no Tylee around.

BBM. And yet they have done some very stupid things already such as telling lies and asking friends to lie for them. I wouldn't be surprised if they disposed of Tylee somewhere in Yellowstone and then waited a few weeks to make sure she wouldn't be found, then took JJ and put him in the same place. They wouldn't have to tell JJ where he was going before hand. And if they wanted him to comply easier they could give him some of his meds to tranquilize him. We see serial killers do this-- placing their victims in the same general location where they have hidden previous victims. So why wouldn't someone getting rid of their kids several weeks apart think it's a good idea? Also, if they have twisted their religious beliefs enough to thinking the kids are "in a better place" being dead then they may have chosen a single resting place so that Lori could potentially visit there in the future. Not that I think she is the sentimental type but some serial killers also like to visit the graves of their victims to reminisce.

(I miss having a "sick" emoji here but I feel sick even typing the above scenario )

MOO.

 

[SuziQ]

So yes then? However, surely sealing has to be done by a LDS official doesn't it?

An official sealing, yes. This cult,however, is walking into a Temple and doing their own little ceremony, unbeknownst to the LDS Church. Btw, there is nothing to indicate that Chad, Lori, AC, or MB did this, as it is unclear whether they could even get into a Temple. Temples are locked down tight. IMO, members of the cult who have abused their access to Temples, should be tossed out of the church.

 

[Gardener1850]

Snipped, bbm

What did she tell Tylee about the reason the dog had to go to another home?

jmo

I don't think we know that info.

 

[raysgirl1126]

"Relative of missing kids may have information; Reportedly confesses to attempted murder of ex-husband"

Relative of missing kids may have information; Reportedly confesses to attempted murder of ex-husband

Please excuse me if this has already been discussed. I spent the day hanging with my Daughter yesterday. MB confesses to attempted murder? Is this new info, or did I miss it?