Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #20

[LHS]

An executive secretary is basically the volunteer position of setting up appointments for the Bishop basically. it's nothing glamorous, and just another calling or job that various people in the church perform without pay, just as service. It doesn't come with any massive perks or anything, and it's mostly just needed to help lighten the load on the Bishop himself. It sounds much more interesting than it is. My father was once an exec. sec. And many men have served in that position around the world for short periods of time before they change callings. He could have held any number of callings but basically this just means his records of where he lives are located in that ward that he's assigned to attend, and that he's able to hold a calling or position of service to that congregation.

I believe the information given about him holding that position and then being released (meaning they are saying you no longer hold it... sometimes to give you another position, and when you move away) came from our VI who had access to that information. So yes. That was verified.

 

[LHS]

Saying you were "prompted" to do something refers to a spiritually suggested thought and/or feeling coming from God to guide you through the Holy Ghost. It's very very common terminology from LDS people, but it is a bit weird that he used it so blatantly in that interview situation, not to mention A LOT of his behavior was very informal for an employer/employee relationship. As a "card carrying" member - that even made me feel off and awkward to listen to.

 

[sgjsnow]

Short Answer: No.
Long answer:
To be a living couple (because work for the dead is done there too) wanting to be sealed you have to have these things:
1. Both have to have valid temple recommends meaning they had worthiness interviews each with their bishop and again stake president (or counselors)
2. A LEGAL marriage license either from a civil marriage in the past, or one that permits a legal wedding to take place between the two of them that very day. (Tough to do if you are still married to other people legally)
3. A sealer to perform the ceremony. This is a man who has authority in the church through his calling to perform the sealing ordinance (ceremony).

If you have been married before and are divorced, then you need to have a sealing cancellation done (if you're a woman) or a sealing clearance done (if you are a man). Deceased spouses do not require any additional work for men, but they still require cancellation for a woman.

The account I have heard does not indicate that they had a sealer perform the ceremony because they would have to show him a legal marriage license which we know they would not have had while married to other people. It's been known to happen, but it's usually tough to pull off. And it does not sound to me like any sealer or anyone with proper authority in the church performed any such ordinance. Not to mention - there would be a record of it though records for living people are not visible to any but the individual and the lay clergy their membership records are held by.

Based on this couple's track record, I would say they no longer believe that laws, either of men or God apply to them. They don't seem to think the church's actual authority matters much if they believe they are "above" such matters which their behavior indicates. Thus, I believe that they had their "friend" "seal " them in a pseudo ceremony that THEY feel is valid. A lot of what they are doing and the way they are going about things are very much outside the bounds of the order and structure of the LDS church.

Is it possible that there could be a temple sealer and/or other temple worker that is part of this sub group that could/would help facilitate these people to do unauthorized things in the temple? As an active member of the church I don't want to think this, but I also don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.

 

[LHS]

Is it possible that there could be a temple sealer and/or other temple worker that is part of this sub group that could/would help facilitate these people to do unauthorized things in the temple? As an active member of the church I don't want to think this, but I also don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.

That's possible, but it still doesn't make their sealing legitimate whatsoever. The problem is they had not (at the time his is alleged to have happened) been married in their lifetimes, and despite what they think, the church does not currently teach multiple probations (lifetimes) which means that doesn't count. So it's still basically playing pretend because in order for the sealing to be acknowledged as legitimate, it has to take place for a couple who are already LEGALLY married, or who are getting legally married along with being sealed at the same time. Both require verification of marriage license.

ETA - even if you're doing sealings for those who are deceased, you may not do sealings for them without some proof that they were married while living. If you're living in this day and age, a marriage license is an absolute requirement. Tough to get around that one. Not impossible, but if they did get around it while still married to others... they are also guilty of the crime of Bigamy.

 

[tresir2012]

Short Answer: No.
Long answer:
To be a living couple (because work for the dead is done there too) wanting to be sealed you have to have these things:
1. Both have to have valid temple recommends meaning they had worthiness interviews each with their bishop and again stake president (or counselors)
2. A LEGAL marriage license either from a civil marriage in the past, or one that permits a legal wedding to take place between the two of them that very day. (Tough to do if you are still married to other people legally)
3. A sealer to perform the ceremony. This is a man who has authority in the church through his calling to perform the sealing ordinance (ceremony).

If you have been married before and are divorced, then you need to have a sealing cancellation done (if you're a woman) or a sealing clearance done (if you are a man). Deceased spouses do not require any additional work for men, but they still require cancellation for a woman.

The account I have heard does not indicate that they had a sealer perform the ceremony because they would have to show him a legal marriage license which we know they would not have had while married to other people. It's been known to happen, but it's usually tough to pull off. And it does not sound to me like any sealer or anyone with proper authority in the church performed any such ordinance. Not to mention - there would be a record of it though records for living people are not visible to any but the individual and the lay clergy their membership records are held by.

Based on this couple's track record, I would say they no longer believe that laws, either of men or God apply to them. They don't seem to think the church's actual authority matters much if they believe they are "above" such matters which their behavior indicates. Thus, I believe that they had their "friend" "seal " them in a pseudo ceremony that THEY feel is valid. A lot of what they are doing and the way they are going about things are very much outside the bounds of the order and structure of the LDS church.

So even if they wanted to get sealed now they would still have to wait a year from CVs death? Unless they can provide a civil marriage certificate and have the temple recommends and garments.
I think the pseudo sealing or even a self sealing could have been likely then IMO.

 

[Gardener1850]

Yes, they could do that... but that's kind of like holding your own wedding without anyone officiating and having it be non-legal. Does that make sense? You can certainly do that, but it doesn't make it a real thing.

From everything I'm reading here what seems most likely to me is that Chad and Lori simply lied to their followers/fellow cult members and said they were sealed in the temple. Theoretically, if Chad and Lori both have temple recommends and are both able to enter the temple, but their fellow AVOW members do not have temple recommends/cannot enter, then could Lori and Chad have entered the temple together only under the guise of getting sealed (for those who were outside waiting for them), but perhaps no sealing took place? I can see such a ruse occurring much more easily than picturing Lori and Chad going off into a corner somewhere and officiating their own ceremony. I'm not convinced Lori and Chad actually believe what they have been selling to others. But I do see evidence that they put on the faces that they think others want to see or tell others what they think they want to hear. It seems to be all about keeping up appearances to them.

MOO.

 

[tresir2012]

She hired one for Sep 19th. I wonder why, what time and for how long.

September podcast recording with Chad maybe is what it was for IMO. One of the ones we cannot track down since it was pulled by the media company.

 

[LHS]

So even if they wanted to get sealed now they would still have to wait a year from CVs death? Unless they can provide a civil marriage certificate and have the temple recommends and garments.
I think the pseudo sealing or even a self sealing could have been likely then IMO.

It's not so much a year time span as having gone through the proper channels regarding any cancellation of any sealings Lori MIGHT have had. Women can only be sealed to one man, dead or alive. Men can be sealed to multiple women, just not simultaneously while more than one is alive. It may or may not take a year for the cancellation to go through, but it's reviewed by the top leadership of the church and takes into account a lot more than just what is submitted by the individual.

At this point... they are legally married, and could be sealed in the temple legitimately providing that they both have temple recommends. Right now the question of Chad's membership status is a little up in the air - I can't say about that. But he would eventually have to go through the interview questions, and he can't lie his way through the ones about taking care of family members with what has already been in the media about Lori's kids. He's now considered responsible for her kids as well as his in the church through their marriage.

 

[LHS]

From everything I'm reading here what seems most likely to me is that Chad and Lori simply lied to their followers/fellow cult members and said they were sealed in the temple. Theoretically, if Chad and Lori both have temple recommends and are both able to enter the temple, but their fellow AVOW members do not have temple recommends/cannot enter, then could Lori and Chad have entered the temple together only under the guise of getting sealed (for those who were outside waiting for them), but perhaps no sealing took place? I can see such a ruse occurring much more easily than picturing Lori and Chad going off into a corner somewhere and officiating their own ceremony. I'm not convinced Lori and Chad actually believe what they have been selling to others. But I do see evidence that they put on the faces that they think others want to see or tell others what they think they want to hear. It seems to be all about keeping up appearances to them.

MOO.

Consider the fact that it just doesn't seem over all likely... There are some beliefs these two have that are just WAY out in left field. I would not put it past them to have had a couple's meditation and imagined the entire thing just for funsies.

 

[sgjsnow]

That's possible, but it still doesn't make their sealing legitimate whatsoever. The problem is they had not (at the time his is alleged to have happened) been married in their lifetimes, and despite what they think, the church does not currently teach multiple probations (lifetimes) which means that doesn't count. So it's still basically playing pretend because in order for the sealing to be acknowledged as legitimate, it has to take place for a couple who are already LEGALLY married, or who are getting legally married along with being sealed at the same time. Both require verification of marriage license.

ETA - even if you're doing sealings for those who are deceased, you may not do sealings for them without some proof that they were married while living. If you're living in this day and age, a marriage license is an absolute requirement. Tough to get around that one. Not impossible, but if they did get around it while still married to others... they are also guilty of the crime of Bigamy.

I agree it wouldn't actually be a legitimate sealing or legal marriage, but could add more legitimacy in the (warped) minds of those involved. MOO

 

[josephinemarch]

Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix

Not a huge update, but something.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Do we even know they're saying their marriage has been sealed? Jmo.

 

[MsJosie]

I thought that was a rumor or speculation only. The KPD couldn't answer the question at the press conference (about 11 minutes in):

great questions...wish LE could have answered them...

 

[LHS]

Do we even know they're saying their marriage has been sealed? Jmo.

I don't believe I've seen MSM or LE based sources that say so - just other sources I cannot mention.

 

[BigAl16]

From everything I'm reading here what seems most likely to me is that Chad and Lori simply lied to their followers/fellow cult members and said they were sealed in the temple. Theoretically, if Chad and Lori both have temple recommends and are both able to enter the temple, but their fellow AVOW members do not have temple recommends/cannot enter, then could Lori and Chad have entered the temple together only under the guise of getting sealed (for those who were outside waiting for them), but perhaps no sealing took place? I can see such a ruse occurring much more easily than picturing Lori and Chad going off into a corner somewhere and officiating their own ceremony. I'm not convinced Lori and Chad actually believe what they have been selling to others. But I do see evidence that they put on the faces that they think others want to see or tell others what they think they want to hear. It seems to be all about keeping up appearances to them.

MOO.

Or they don't have the ability to get in the temple, but said they did and the followers weren't waiting for them either. (Probably the Hawaii temple and the followers were on the mainland anyway.) If they're going to make things up anyway ...

MOO

 

[CSIDreamer]

Speculation

I keep meaning to bring up a thought I have regarding Lori's immediate family. Just because they arent cooperating, doesn't mean they aren't involuntarily. When all is said and done I wouldn't be surprised to find out they've been under surveillance. Jmo

Speculation

 

[Gardener1850]

Do we even know they're saying their marriage has been sealed? Jmo.

I haven't seen anything saying from MSM or LE. I think we are only speculating about it based on a sealing possibly being important to them/their fellow cult members. MOO.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I haven't seen anything saying from MSM or LE. I think we are only speculating about it based on a sealing possibly being important to them/their fellow cult members. MOO.

I haven't either, which is why I was wondering.

 

[Mentalheadslap2018]

Tylee is young beautiful and blonde, they probably kept her and married her off, does anyone else think this is possible? Why would they have let the dog go and not get rid of him too ?

Money.

 

[b2alicia]

I was just wondering if there is a legal reason, or some other important reason, why it would matter if their marriage had been "sealed"? As far as the court is concerned, wouldn't a marriage certificate from the court house be enough?