GA GA - Shirley, 87, & Russell Dermond, 88, Putnam Co, 2 May 2014 - #13

[deugirtni]

Y’all know a whole lot more than I do about the details in this case so there’s a good chance this makes no sense. I just can’t shake my brain from thinking that the Dermonds were not the intended victims and that that is contributing to the case not being solved. The over the top brutality of his death and the kinda clumsy disposal of her body may have been of the “oh no, now what do we do” reaction. If they were not the intended targets, the entire investigation has been on the wrong path, and the murders would make no sense. And these don’t in my opinion. Just my thoughts.

That's a realistic thought.. but SS says he thought of that and has investigated that possibility and come up with nothing.

 

[Deleted member 162919]

I just think their was too much rage in beheading an 88 year old guy and bashing in the skull of an 87 year old woman. I could be wrong but I think if this was a wrong house I think they would have just killed them and left. To me this seems personal and someone full of rage

 

[Kittybunny]

Y’all know a whole lot more than I do about the details in this case so there’s a good chance this makes no sense. I just can’t shake my brain from thinking that the Dermonds were not the intended victims and that that is contributing to the case not being solved. The over the top brutality of his death and the kinda clumsy disposal of her body may have been of the “oh no, now what do we do” reaction. If they were not the intended targets, the entire investigation has been on the wrong path, and the murders would make no sense. And these don’t in my opinion. Just my thoughts.

It's not out of the realm of possibility. There was at least one case that I remember from an older Dateline where the killers went to the wrong house, or thought that the people were drug dealers. But I think it was in a trailer park where they got the wrong trailer. The question then becomes who in this upscale neighborhood was the real intended victims then?

I still lean more towards family or previous business dealings being related, but anything is possible! I think it's difficult to solve because a) Sills is convinced he doesn't need any outside help and b)the killers have not committed crimes like these before and/or were from out of state.

 

[Kittybunny]

Y’all know a whole lot more than I do about the details in this case so there’s a good chance this makes no sense. I just can’t shake my brain from thinking that the Dermonds were not the intended victims and that that is contributing to the case not being solved. The over the top brutality of his death and the kinda clumsy disposal of her body may have been of the “oh no, now what do we do” reaction. If they were not the intended targets, the entire investigation has been on the wrong path, and the murders would make no sense. And these don’t in my opinion. Just my thoughts.

It's not out of the realm of possibility. There was at least one case that I remember from an older Dateline where the killers went to the wrong house, or thought that the people were drug dealers. But I think it was in a trailer park where they got the wrong trailer. The question then becomes who in this upscale neighborhood was the real intended victims then?

I still lean more towards family or previous business dealings being related, but anything is possible! I think it's difficult to solve because a) Sills is convinced he doesn't need any outside help and b)the killers have not committed crimes like these before and/or were from out of state.

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Everything is possible i'd never totally rule anything out. I just think even if someone got the wrong home they probably wouldn't have taken the action they did. the beheading and bashing in a skull and dumping of just 1 body tells me this was planned out very well by someone enraged about something. I don't think this was a person on drugs because they usually don't have the clear mind to leave no traces behind. When I think of this case 1 of the 1st things I think of is the entrance and exit strategy which seemed to be executed perfectly which tells me this was well planned. Time spent at the residence plus the blocks to weigh a body down and the ropes aren't the typical things a person puts in a trunk or on a boat. Not being seen by anyone also tells me they knew when to come and when to leave without being noticed.

Another thought I've had is that this could have been done by 1 person but likely 3 IMO but lets say 2 people , maybe 1 was killed shortly after for fear he might confess eventually . If it was done by 1 person there would have been drag marks leading to the boat dock but if there was 2 then they could easily carry a body weighing under 200 pounds although I would think there would still be footprints due to the weight they were carrying. Keep in mind a person walking will have clearer footsteps than a person carrying a heavy load because the heavy load causes stutter steps and makes more of an indent in the ground.

Just a thought I know I ramble on and sometimes make no sense

 

[Deleted member 162919]

Less than 2 months away from the 6 year anniversary and i'm hoping SS gives us another tiny nugget of information as he has on each anniversary.

If you've listened to the podcasts over and over again like I have it just seems SS knows who did this and he's just sitting back and waiting for someone to either confess or rat someone out. below are some questions I would have for SS if I ever met him

1 Did you find any foot prints or did your officers scatter around the house before you could check for foot prints?
2 You mentioned you think they were killed somewhere else but do you honestly believe the killers would risk entering the house and kidnapping 2 people, kill them somewhere else and then bring them back to the house and risk being spotted?
3. Please be honest and explain why the feds were on the scene so fast. Yes they are very helpful in kidnappings because they have multi state jurisdiction but I believe they had another reason for acting so quickly
4. Nothing stolen, nothing damaged, valuables left on the counter, couple killed and 1 beheaded and you believe the killers intended to either extort them or thought the Dermonds had something that they didn't have. My question would be what makes you believe they tried to extort them or why do you believe the killers thought they had something they wanted.

 

[Jbetty567]

Everything is possible i'd never totally rule anything out. I just think even if someone got the wrong home they probably wouldn't have taken the action they did. the beheading and bashing in a skull and dumping of just 1 body tells me this was planned out very well by someone enraged about something. I don't think this was a person on drugs because they usually don't have the clear mind to leave no traces behind. When I think of this case 1 of the 1st things I think of is the entrance and exit strategy which seemed to be executed perfectly which tells me this was well planned. Time spent at the residence plus the blocks to weigh a body down and the ropes aren't the typical things a person puts in a trunk or on a boat. Not being seen by anyone also tells me they knew when to come and when to leave without being noticed.

Another thought I've had is that this could have been done by 1 person but likely 3 IMO but lets say 2 people , maybe 1 was killed shortly after for fear he might confess eventually . If it was done by 1 person there would have been drag marks leading to the boat dock but if there was 2 then they could easily carry a body weighing under 200 pounds although I would think there would still be footprints due to the weight they were carrying. Keep in mind a person walking will have clearer footsteps than a person carrying a heavy load because the heavy load causes stutter steps and makes more of an indent in the ground.

Just a thought I know I ramble on and sometimes make no sense

Chiming in a little late here, but I always assumed that Shirley was killed once she was on the boat. They could have forced her to walk down to the dock and Baird the boat - no need to carry her. Then they bash her, tie her to the blocks, and dump her. IIRC we don’t really have any info that she was killed in the house - or the boat. Could be either.

 

[Falcon500]

Less than 2 months away from the 6 year anniversary and i'm hoping SS gives us another tiny nugget of information as he has on each anniversary.

If you've listened to the podcasts over and over again like I have it just seems SS knows who did this and he's just sitting back and waiting for someone to either confess or rat someone out. below are some questions I would have for SS if I ever met him


3. Please be honest and explain why the feds were on the scene so fast. Yes they are very helpful in kidnappings because they have multi state jurisdiction but I believe they had another
4. Nothing stolen, nothing damaged, valuables left on the counter, couple killed and 1 beheaded and you believe the killers intended to either extort them or thought the Dermonds had something that they didn't have. My question would be what makes you believe they tried to extort them or why do you believe the killers thought they had something they wanted.

Less than 2 months away from the 6 year anniversary and i'm hoping SS gives us another tiny nugget of information as he has on each anniversary.

If you've listened to the podcasts over and over again like I have it just seems SS knows who did this and he's just sitting back and waiting for someone to either confess or rat someone out. below are some questions I would have for SS if I ever met him

1 Did you find any foot prints or did your officers scatter around the house before you could check for foot prints?
2 You mentioned you think they were killed somewhere else but do you honestly believe the killers would risk entering the house and kidnapping 2 people, kill them somewhere else and then bring them back to the house and risk being spotted?
3. Please be honest and explain why the feds were on the scene so fast. Yes they are very helpful in kidnappings because they have multi state jurisdiction but I believe they had another reason for acting so quickly
4. Nothing stolen, nothing damaged, valuables left on the counter, couple killed and 1 beheaded and you believe the killers intended to either extort them or thought the Dermonds had something that they didn't have. My question would be what makes you believe they tried to extort them or why do you believe the killers thought they had something they wanted.

The Sheriff is not sitting back and waiting for some to confess because he knows who did it. If he knew who committed the crime he would have arrested him/them.

How soon was the FBI on the scene? Who called them? You know that there are FBI field offices all over Georgia.

 

[Deleted member 162919]

The Sheriff is sitting on his hands and I believe it's because the evidence he does have ( claims he has none) can easily be contested in court ( I won't go into the long explanation again but you can find it on one of these threads) My guess is SS knew soon after he arrived who did this or at least had a good suspect and if he didn't then he shouldn't be an investigator . The FBI was at the scene within a few hours according to the 1st interview with SS held the day of discovery of the body of Mr Dermond .

I'm well aware the FBI has offices throughout every state. Who knows if SS made the call or if they just showed up. For all we know it could be an officer involved and my point is you never rule anyone out as SS has done a few times.

 

[TJtennispro]

FBI has jurisdiction on kidnappings and murder-for-hire. The feds were on the scene because Shirley was missing for 10 days. Maybe they also thought it was a murder-for -hire.

A lot of us have thought that over the years as well.

Less than 2 months away from the 6 year anniversary and i'm hoping SS gives us another tiny nugget of information as he has on each anniversary.

If you've listened to the podcasts over and over again like I have it just seems SS knows who did this and he's just sitting back and waiting for someone to either confess or rat someone out. below are some questions I would have for SS if I ever met him

1 Did you find any foot prints or did your officers scatter around the house before you could check for foot prints?
2 You mentioned you think they were killed somewhere else but do you honestly believe the killers would risk entering the house and kidnapping 2 people, kill them somewhere else and then bring them back to the house and risk being spotted?
3. Please be honest and explain why the feds were on the scene so fast. Yes they are very helpful in kidnappings because they have multi state jurisdiction but I believe they had another reason for acting so quickly
4. Nothing stolen, nothing damaged, valuables left on the counter, couple killed and 1 beheaded and you believe the killers intended to either extort them or thought the Dermonds had something that they didn't have. My question would be what makes you believe they tried to extort them or why do you believe the killers thought they had something they wanted.

 

[Falcon500]

FBI has jurisdiction on kidnappings and murder-for-hire. The feds were on the scene because Shirley was missing for 10 days. Maybe they also thought it was a murder-for -hire.

A lot of us have thought that over the years as well.

Yes that’s true but the other guy was alleging that the FBI was there “so fast” and he claimed that they had an ulterior motive for being there so fast.

It took hours if not a day to determine that the crime could have been a murder for hire. Certainly not a few minutes.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Y’all know a whole lot more than I do about the details in this case so there’s a good chance this makes no sense. I just can’t shake my brain from thinking that the Dermonds were not the intended victims and that that is contributing to the case not being solved. The over the top brutality of his death and the kinda clumsy disposal of her body may have been of the “oh no, now what do we do” reaction. If they were not the intended targets, the entire investigation has been on the wrong path, and the murders would make no sense. And these don’t in my opinion. Just my thoughts.

Anyone can make their own scenario fit, in our minds...…...so any version can make sense...…..but we just don't have all the evidence Im sure...….

Whoever did this probably had a boat already.....if it was an uh oh moment, they already had arrived in the boat or can go get the boat if they live nearby...…..if they planned to dump her then they had the boat there already...….we are certain a boat was involved due to her being dumped in the lake where there is no easy access by land to that location

It was discussed with experts how far the body would float with anchor blocks...…...not far, she was dumped there

As far as going inside the house, it seems someone VERY Familiar with that home

As far as the beheading and time constraints to get out...…...the FBI Profile says that the longer a criminal lingers at the crime scene indicates the familiarity with that home or location......they were VERY familiar, boating all over the lake, lingering at the home beheading, going inside the house

I think it means they are familiar and unafraid, not in a hurry to leave, comfortable there

SO THERE'S THAT...…..someone had been there probably OFTEN before and someone had boated there many times before

WHO

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Yes that’s true but the other guy was alleging that the FBI was there “so fast” and he claimed that they had an ulterior motive for being there so fast.

It took hours if not a day to determine that the crime could have been a murder for hire. Certainly not a few minutes.

He's been on here for years and now THIS......unbleiveable….....he's as frustrated as the rest of us if not more....somebody killed these people and if there is no evidence...…..where do you look, whose fingerprints ARE in that house? Something was likely missed in this case even though SS covered many things, something had to have been missed.....something that's not at the forefront of the mind initially.....no one knew what they were looking for in the community in order to help either......that's sad


Im not sure if the FBI was called in or if they got involved because it was a missing persons case but WE ALL know that GBI was not called in...……..I guess more heads are better than one in a case like this for sure! One man and his team in the country don't see things like this often………...and as a Sheriff , Deputy or investigator you have to wonder WHO WANTS an 89 YR OLD COUPLE DEAD and when there are no leads, call for help...…...

 

[Jbetty567]

I know we’ve all said this before, but if Dorothy hadn’t surfaced, can you imagine how much MORE clueless we would be than we already are?? (I believe they did not mean for her to rise to the surface, but they underestimated the amount of weights necessary to hold her down). It reminds me quite a bit of the Delphi case - in which we have the video footage shot by the victim, almost certainly unintended by the killer, yet it seems to have brought is no closer to solving it.
But what Dorothy being dumped so far into the lake does tell us no matter how we slice it - the offender used a boat. And that means he owned one or rented one. That limits the pool of suspects to people on the lake with boats, or rental outfitter clients.... unless he trailered it to the lake that day which would very likely result in witnesses.

 

[TJtennispro]

Who is Dorothy? Also everyone is putting their boat in the water in early May so that wouldn’t have brought about a witness.

I imagine 300 boats were put in the lake that weekend. The earliest people usually go to the lake is the first weekend in May and the water is very cold still.

I know we’ve all said this before, but if Dorothy hadn’t surfaced, can you imagine how much MORE clueless we would be than we already are?? (I believe they did not mean for her to rise to the surface, but they underestimated the amount of weights necessary to hold her down). It reminds me quite a bit of the Delphi case - in which we have the video footage shot by the victim, almost certainly unintended by the killer, yet it seems to have brought is no closer to solving it.
But what Dorothy being dumped so far into the lake does tell us no matter how we slice it - the offender used a boat. And that means he owned one or rented one. That limits the pool of suspects to people on the lake with boats, or rental outfitter clients.... unless he trailered it to the lake that day which would very likely result in witnesses.

 

[Jbetty567]

Who is Dorothy? Also everyone is putting their boat in the water in early May so that wouldn’t have brought about a witness.

I imagine 300 boats were put in the lake that weekend. The earliest people usually go to the lake is the first weekend in May and the water is very cold still.

Lol sorry! I meant Shirley!

 

[fred&edna]

Has anyone from the GBI publicly commented on their involvement in this case? Have any agents been present when SS has spoken to the public? I know we have often seen and heard from members of the FBI during press conferences in various other cases of kidnap and murder, but I don't recall any public presence in this case. I could be wrong, so I'm hoping someone can refresh my memory.

 

[dancinunderthemoon]

Im with ya..ive said that from early on.....because how harmless were they if reports of their quiet simple life is true

Who wanted them dead


Seems they wanted this couple dead as mu h as they ddidnt want to be discovered

Who in the world could be so readily identified as the killer that they'd go to such lengths to behead him and haul her miles away confusing the investigstion so badly

I think a sheriff should readily know who

But once discovered all DNA was gone from her person

Win win for those killers


Very angry and im in touch with hockeyguy33 but missing his comments here!!!!!

I know we’ve all said this before, but if Dorothy hadn’t surfaced, can you imagine how much MORE clueless we would be than we already are?? (I believe they did not mean for her to rise to the surface, but they underestimated the amount of weights necessary to hold her down). It reminds me quite a bit of the Delphi case - in which we have the video footage shot by the victim, almost certainly unintended by the killer, yet it seems to have brought is no closer to solving it.
But what Dorothy being dumped so far into the lake does tell us no matter how we slice it - the offender used a boat. And that means he owned one or rented one. That limits the pool of suspects to people on the lake with boats, or rental outfitter clients.... unless he trailered it to the lake that day which would very likely result in witnesses.

 

[deugirtni]

what happened to hockyguy33?

 

[Razz]

Has anyone from the GBI publicly commented on their involvement in this case? Have any agents been present when SS has spoken to the public? I know we have often seen and heard from members of the FBI during press conferences in various other cases of kidnap and murder, but I don't recall any public presence in this case. I could be wrong, so I'm hoping someone can refresh my memory.

Actually, I recall a post by a GBI agent (he was verified) early on and I think he said it was a hit.