Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #121

[JDough]

When Carter said "We have a witness" could it have meant Abby herself? If the rumors were true, could she have somehow told them who it was or something she said as the "witness" ? This has never been explored on here to my knowledge. JMO

Unfortunately; Abby was deceased when her body was discovered. She wasn't able to tell them anything.

I searched the media thread, but was unable to locate the two interviews I was looking for. Both AW and MP/BP have debunked these rumors. Libby was the only one to provide a witness account- and that was the video she recorded on her phone. BOTH girls were deceased when discovered.

 

[MistyWaters]

I didn't infer that she died a day later. It could have been minutes or hours. JMO

I’d go for the simplest explanation and the witness can’t have been Abby.

It was the same PC introducing the new sketch when “the witness” was also mentioned. And it was a witness who provided information in order to create the sketch.

BBM

Delphi murders: New sketch of killer, video from Libby's phone released
“Master Trooper Taylor Bryant, a sketch artist with Indiana State Police who drew the new sketch, told IndyStar a sketch is based on how a particular witness describes the suspect. If there are several witnesses, Bryant would draw a sketch for each description. Bryant did not draw the sketch that police released in July 2017.

"The witness is the main focus. So there’s no input from law enforcement at all in the generating of a sketch, other than my presence as the artist."

Bryant uses a "facial identification reference sheet" that has a list of different categories, from head shapes to different eyebrows and noses. The person will describe the suspect based on those categories. "(It's) easier to do that than to describe (the suspect) using just words," Bryant said.

The sketches are not exact, Bryant said. The renderings are a "ballpark estimation of what the person looks like."

The sketch released on Monday was drawn by Bryant on Feb. 17, 2017, a few days after the victims' bodies were found. The picture was based on the description of a person who saw something that the person felt needed to be reported, according to Bryant...”

 

[Charlot123]

It’s always interesting to me how people see things differently. To me, literally nothing about this guy is unique. He was wearing average everyday clothes that you see on any midwestern guy in those temperatures, his voice just sounds like any guy’s voice, you can’t tell anything about the gait of a person walking on a rickety old bridge with large spaces between railroad ties. He doesn’t sound authoritative, he said the word guys which is said all over the country by tons of people, when referencing both boys and girls and men and women, and of course they’d do what he said when he said “down the hill” because by that point he had threatened them in some way and they knew they had to cooperate or be harmed.

I’m not saying anyone is wrong, just that my opinion is obviously quite different than that of others. We all see and hear things differently based on our own life experiences, and when there’s almost nothing to use for clues here, we just have to speculate endlessly.

I’m just glad that the “puppy under the jacket” theory seems to have mostly gone away lol.

There is one thing about the voice... and the only reason I know it is not my friend is because my friend speaks with a faint accent.

But the expression is very interesting. I feel the BG is speaking virtually through clenched teeth. The word "guys" he pronounces normally, but "down the hill" he says as if he were angry but tried to conceal it.

And then I started thinking, what would it mean, if the person speaks in such a way, is he always angry? My friend would speak this way when he'd be either angry, or would like to emphasize what was being said. But since I consider him successful, talented, probably undiagnosed bipolar, anger is not an unusual trait. But to me, there is nothing average in the way the BG speaks. He speaks like a person who habitually clenches his teeth to suppress emotions. MOO.

 

[Sillybilly]

Please stop with the social media rumors. They are a violation of TOS and such posts will be removed and may result in a possible loss of posting privileges.

 

[sunshineray]

New 'Face' of the Delphi Murder Suspect
Indiana State Police sent this bulletin at 04/22/2019 12:30 PM EDT
“......This is the face of the suspect that goes with body of the video captured on Liberty German's cell phone minutes before she and Abigail Williams were murdered.”
New 'Face' of the Delphi Murder Suspect

It would be a matter of procedural routine for medical examiners to determine the difference between bodies moved or bodies murdered at the location where they were found.

For some reason unknown to us, LE believes the murders occurred within minutes of Libby’s video. How that could be, I don’t know but a couple of possible ways I can think of - Libby’s cellphone continued to record audio after “down the hill”. Or a witness heard gunshots, thought nothing of it at the time but reported it to LE after the discovery of the bodies of the two girls the following day.

________________________
@sunshineray
Also from this same link -
“As Superintendent Carter said today, "We have a witness. You made mistakes. We are coming for you and there's no place for a heartless coward like you to hide that gets his thrill from killing little girls."

*****
Snipped by me:
a witness who “saw something they felt needed to be reported”

Wasn't there a man who said he was working right across from the trails that day who said very close to the above? IIRC

Snipped by me:
a witness who “saw something they felt needed to be reported”

Wasn't there a man who said he was working right across from the trails that day who said very close to the above? IIRC

sorry I snipped that wrong

 

[crhedBngr]

Please see my post #1037 for links to RL's release.

Thanks for this.

 

[Charlot123]

We can find out anything on the internet. Type any sentence, any question, and it's amazing that someone already posted that information.

Yet somehow with Monon High Bridge Trail we can only know about if if we're a local and physically bumped into it.

That notion will forever amaze me.

I guarantee criminals love it

Oh, I bet if we look through “ghost places” boards on Pinterest, we’d find MHB, and lots of other things.

 

[Charlot123]

Somewhat anecdotal, but for much of the Midwest and into the West, clean, pressed, creased blue jeans are to agriculture what khakis are to Business Casual. Plaid shirt, please, short sleeve in the Midwest; long sleeves in the West.

Undershirt, white or colored.

I do agree that if this is a younger man in creased jeans -- an older lady takes care of the laundry.

JMHO YMMV

Depends. I would assume, no young kid would wear creased jeans. They look odd.

 

[Charlot123]

Am I the only one who thinks there are two killers,who adducting Abby,and Libby, kept them somewhere else, did horrible things to them, killed them, brought them back to that location to dump them. BG 1 led them down to BG 2. The composite is a mix of both gutys
MOO

I sometimes think one is “normal”, let us say, an assassin, and the other one, totally psychotic.

 

[Charlot123]

When Carter said "We have a witness" could it have meant Abby herself? If the rumors were true, could she have somehow told them who it was or something she said as the "witness" ? This has never been explored on here to my knowledge. JMO

I don’t believe so. Maybe it is “had they found them at nighttime, she might have survived” case, but the next morning, I doubt Abby was alive and conscious.

Moreover, what DC said (something very strong, like “I wanted to vomit”) prompts me to think that both girls were dead, and the scene was hideous. MOO. Not based on rumors, based on how a seasoned policeman described his reaction.

 

[sunshineray]

I sometimes think one is “normal”, let us say, an assassin, and the other one, totally psychotic.

Do you think both male?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

There is one thing about the voice... and the only reason I know it is not my friend is because my friend speaks with a faint accent.

But the expression is very interesting. I feel the BG is speaking virtually through clenched teeth. The word "guys" he pronounces normally, but "down the hill" he says as if he were angry but tried to conceal it.

And then I started thinking, what would it mean, if the person speaks in such a way, is he always angry? My friend would speak this way when he'd be either angry, or would like to emphasize what was being said. But since I consider him successful, talented, probably undiagnosed bipolar, anger is not an unusual trait. But to me, there is nothing average in the way the BG speaks. He speaks like a person who habitually clenches his teeth to suppress emotions. MOO.

Maybe, he had concerns being too loud, therefore was speaking with a bit clenched teeth? An always volatile Person would have a Problem with that: to be understood by the girls, but not heard by witnesses. IMO

 

[Cryptic]

Men who wear uniforms create creases - or get them creased. Some occupations that wear uniforms are required to have creases.

Very, true.

BG, however, is wearing non uniform clothes that seem to have creases. Though a lot of men have creased church,dress or "business" clothes, in my experience, I have recently seen two types of men with creases in non uniform, everyday clothes:

- Elderly men such as two relatives' whose work or farm clothes were / are creased by their wives "olde school style". Mennonites are "old school" as a group. and I would not be surprised if some younger Mennonites have creased work clothes.

- Long term former servicemen, Marines in particular. I even asked one retired Marine about it. He told me that he personally irons and creases most of his every day clothes. After 20 years of daily habit with the Marines, he simply felt strange not doing it.

It is, of course, entirely possible for another person to crease every day clothes from personal preference. I just have only known men from the two groups above to do it recently.

 

[Cryptic]

I still have friends there. I have driven down some of the roads near MHB.

Just out of curiosity, how much traffic does the road along the creek get? Do you know if it was gated off, or just marked as private- but not enforced as it was abandoned rail road property?

 

[catch_22]

Just out of curiosity, how much traffic does the road along the creek get? Do you know if it was gated off, or just marked as private- but not enforced as it was abandoned rail road property?

I think it is a private driveway to a single house

 

[Cryptic]

I think it is a private driveway to a single house

Thanks.

A private drive as opposed to abandoned rail road property would eliminate casual traffic of say, the fishing or drinking type on the road.

It would also greatly reduce the possibility of BG directing them to another individual(s) who had driven in.

 

[catch_22]

I wonder if those are brand new jeans? Or a whole brand new outfit? Never worn before. Never worn after.

I think pants/jeans from clothing stores, that are on the "clamp" type hangers, often have those creases in them. They could be brand new jeans, or maybe he just keeps his jeans on hangers, and happens to fold them in that manner.

 

[TL4S]

I don't know. They didn't find them till the next day. So could be they missed spotting them getting dumped. It hasn't been released yet the cause,or manner of death, or any of that. Not even sure if it has been stated specifically if the place they were found, was the place of death. MOO

Somewhere in the "Down the Hill" podcast, Ives states that the girls were killed in the location they were found. That, along with the information mentioned in posts above about them being killed within minutes (not hours) of the video, dissuades me entirely from the idea of the girls being taken elsewhere or moved.

 

[TL4S]

I've been thinking about the bridge video and why BG isn't seen in either of the bridge pictures L took earlier. It's likely as simple as he was still out of sight on the north end. I just cannot convince myself that he started on the south end, as the podcasters and others have prescribed. I have no reason to feel that way, I just do. JMO

But I've also wondered if maybe the girls had already crossed the bridge and were heading back before he got on. For whatever reason they were uncomfortable passing him on the bridge (beyond the unspoken courtesy waiting that's been mentioned), so they went back to the south end, where L started her video.

If this was the case, I question again if they had a prior interaction with him on the trail, or if he got on the bridge and started acting strange. Maybe he was shouting things at them, or urinated off the bridge, or something weirder yet...IDK. Not like it makes any difference, either. Just curious.

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

Somewhere in the "Down the Hill" podcast, Ives states that the girls were killed in the location they were found. That, along with the information mentioned in posts above about them being killed within minutes (not hours) of the video, dissuades me entirely from the idea of the girls being taken elsewhere or moved.

Thank You. I missed that. I haven't followed this case as closely as others. I hope whoever knows who it is talks.