Questions you'd like answers to... #2

[Bev]

there are some things about this case that will never be known, but they are details that drive you nutz - here's a few I have, what are yours?

1. Why was it so important to the Ramseys' story that JonBenet was asleep when they got home and was taken directly to bed? Burke said she woke up and helped carry stuff into the house. We know she had pineapple, so why lie about her being asleep? It seems as though it would have been easier to say that she woke up when they pulled into the garage, they futzed around and had a snack and then went to bed - why was it important enough to lie about it? It's as if they were afraid to have anyone know the child was on the first floor that night between those hours - why? Did something happen in that part of the house?

2. Why did Burke act so strangely that morning? Why did he pretend to be asleep, and why didn't his parents wake him up and ask him if he had seen or heard anything in the night? Why when his father came up to get him to take him to White's house, did he remain silent and not ask any questions? That's not the way nine year old boys act - they want to know everything that's going on and if a cop walks in the house, they're fascinated by him, and want to know why he's there. This kid did not ask ONE question or exhibit any fear or curiosity at all. (In my opinion, someone put the fear of God in this kid to keep him quiet. I can hear it now, "no matter what anyone asks you, you say you don't know, do you hear me?? Do you want Mom and Dad in jail?? Don't say anything!!!, I mean it, Burke!!!) And I don't care what anyone says about everyone being "different", nine year old boys don't act like that in that kind
of situation - he didn't even ask, "is JonBenet going with us to the Whites?"

3. How did that blood get in the underwear? She's been wiped clean, but there is blood on the crotch panel - so she had to have had them on, been injured, wiped clean, and then the underwear put back on with the longjohns with the urine stain in the front - otherwise, how could the blood have gotten there? Which means she had that pair of underwear on, she was injured, the underwear were pulled up, and then someone thought better of it, pulled them down, wiped her clean and then pulled the underwear back up. How else could the blood have gotten on that part of the underwear?

4. Patsy Ramsey was so insistent on the ransom note being on the spiral staircase, saying, "and that's how I come down every morning." How would an intruder know that? Why not leave it in her bed, or on the kitchen counter or the windshield of the car, or the steps leading down from their bedroom, where the parents would be sure of seeing it. And why would she never admit to having read the damned thing? Or why wouldn't she read it in the first place? If it was my kid, I'd of have it memorized. She insinuated to LE that it was 'weird" that Fleet White knew it so well - well, anyone with a brain and a heart would be reading that note over and over wondering if there was anything about it that could tell them who killed that little girl. What's weird, is that Patsy Ramsey didn't do that.

This baloney that the parents shouldn't be suspected because of their behavior, because everyone acts "differently" is just that - baloney. If everyone acted differently, we wouldn't have societal norms, we wouldn't have traditions, we wouldn't know how to act appropriately in situations. Not to get into anything too esoteric, but there is a biological mechanism in the brain called "theory of mind mechanism". It allows us to understand and act appropriately in society, because we observe appropriate behavior and store those reactions in the brain. These parents didn't act in the way innocent parents act - they go on tv, but can't talk to the police. They call a lawyer the very day it happened, and then refuse to be interviewed, they have investigators on Dec. 27th, taking statements from people who were there that day and don't even inform the police. They give physical evidence but won't talk to the cops or take polygraphs or do one thing to remove themselves as suspects in the case. Things have to make sense and this just does not make any sense at all.

___

Thread #1

 

[dgfred]

Any chance of like 23 and me/some other genetic testing... could now be done on remaining DNA to narrow suspects down even more?

 

[David Rogers]

I need help with the DNA. The Hispanic DNA profile has been mentioned but his report says this. How does this relate to the Hispanic DNA?

Boulder DA memo report 96-21871 page 12 of 16.


“We asked about the possibility of testing for the male contributor’s racial profile, Williamson noted that due to the fact that the profile obtained was a mixture it may not be possible to perform a test.”
http://jonbenetramsey.pbworks.com/w/file/fetch/128162457/HoritaLongMemo.pdf

 

[10ofRods]

What "Hispanic DNA"? There are no particular markers for people from Spain (or from Mexico).

There has been quite a bit of discussion about the mixture-DNA having ethnic markers that are "Asian" (which is now a giant group that includes Native Americans and many who were born in North America of Native American ancestry).

 

[Tobiano8th]

OP, PR and/or JR thought she was dead already due to PR/BR violent accident..... not sure if the cover-up was due to some sort of sexual abuse (before that day) or wanting to absolve themselves of blame (appearances very important to PR)........ i am just putting this out there as a stock response to your question. not saying this is the way it was.

i didn't realize till recently that many experts think JR only found out about anything with ransom notes...... so he may have just been involved in uncooperative with police. maybe no JR coverup

 

[Tobiano8th]

is that correct that it is almost universally agreed that JBR was conscious when strangled and fought back?............

 

[pubineapplube]

is that correct that it is almost universally agreed that JBR was conscious when strangled and fought back?............

In Bizarro Ramsey World, maybe. In this universe, the medical evidence indicates she was unconscious and probably experiencing brain death when fatally strangled.

 

[Tobiano8th]

PP, thank you........... that's what i thought....... i am reading the detective guild book now. very good book. and i just got to that part right now.

2nd question: is the evidence generally agreed upon in this case?.... i understand that what the evidence means is a HUGE issue in this case....... contrast it to something like JFK assassination where people argue over basic evidence?

 

[Userid]

is that correct that it is almost universally agreed that JBR was conscious when strangled and fought back?............

There are conflicting medical opinions -- some "experts" say yes, others say no. I think the most common one that I've personally heard, was that she was "close" to death, but again, it's conflicting.

 

[Userid]

PP, thank you........... that's what i thought....... i am reading the detective guild book now. very good book. and i just got to that part right now.

2nd question: is the evidence generally agreed upon in this case?.... i understand that what the evidence means is a HUGE issue in this case....... contrast it to something like JFK assassination where people argue over basic evidence?

2nd question: Yes and no. I don't think anyone disputes the evidence itself, but there is a dispute as to whether certain evidence (duct tape, flash light) came from inside the home or if it was brought from outside the home. Same with the Hi-Tec boot mark in the cellar -- I've read that BR owned a pair of those boots, and I've also read that no one in the house owned a pair of those boots. I personally think he did own a pair of those boots, but that the mark is insignificant to the crime itself.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

2nd question: Yes and no. I don't think anyone disputes the evidence itself, but there is a dispute as to whether certain evidence (duct tape, flash light) came from inside the home or if it was brought from outside the home. Same with the Hi-Tec boot mark in the cellar -- I've read that BR owned a pair of those boots, and I've also read that no one in the house owned a pair of those boots. I personally think he did own a pair of those boots, but that the mark is insignificant to the crime itself.

The R said they didn’t recognize the flashlight because it was gray instead of black due to dusting for fingerprints. JAR gave his father the mag lite as a gift.
BR did own a pair of hi tec boots as did JAR. I believe the poon print is significant to the crime scene.
The duct tape roll was never found but it is my understanding that the piece used could have come from JB American girl doll or the back of a photograph of her.

 

[KayyySmalls23]

Ok, so if the parents did do it, I have one question....why did they stage a second cause of death?

To clarify, if John, Patsy, and/or Burke killed JonBenet (by accident or on purpose) by either strangling her or by a head injury, then why cover it up by either strangling her or hitting her on the head?

Ex:

* Family member(s) kill JonBenet.
* Family member(s) decides to cover it up that they did it.
* To cover it up, family member(s) then further brutalize the already dead body to make it look like it was murdered?

Why would they fake "re-kill" the already murdered body to make it look murdered if it was already murdered?

I feel like I'm missing something here.

Thanks.

Edpower,

Hello there friend!
The case of JonBenet Ramsey has been one that has puzzled the members of our nation for almost two decades. I was the same age as JonBenet when she was murdered and as a child, I blamed her death as the reason why my mother wouldn't let me participate in pageants. I used to be so angry!

As I grew up; I followed her case closely and always held closely to the theories that I formulated hoping the case would be solved and I would have guessed the correct killer. Sadly, her case is still unsolved and we are no closer to learning who took the life of that sweet, little Boulder CO native than we were on that Christmas Day in 1996.

I have held my theories that it was different members of her family that had a hand in her death however the older I got, the more I remained to hold one theory as most viable.

I truly believe that her older brother BR had been sexually abusing her for quite some time before her death and while during previous instances of her abuse; she had remained quiet on this night, she was not causing the blunt force trauma to her head. I truly believe that BR used the strangulation as a means and method to keep her quiet permanently and when he realized that he had devised no way to simply claim "she ran away" because he couldn't dispose of her body. He simply grabbed his mother's notepad and wrote what he had probably seen before in many a murder mystery or kidnapping.

I think his parents did what any parents would do and did their best to cover up his participation in this brutal crime.

A couple things that have always bothered me in regards to this case was #1) the fact that PR claimed BR was still asleep when she made the 911 call however upon further examination big brother can be heard in the background on the 911 tapes. #2) it was said that JonBenet wanted to stay up to wait for Santa however, why would she be waiting for Santa on Christmas night when any child knows Santa comes on Christmas Eve?

 

[Swirlz]

I think his parents did what any parents would do

????

 

[Tobiano8th]

thanks for all the feedback..... i just read the detectives guild book. i liked it. thought it was quite biased though towards RDI (i'm RDI too, but i thought the book was a bit much). and it went way too long into analyzing the sentence structure of the ransom note. any defense attorney would destroy that easily...........

 

[KayyySmalls23]

Also, the issue with the basement door or door leading to the basement. Forgive my memories, it has been quite some time since I've actually sifted through this case.

I do remember a small detail being mentioned that had she run down to the basement in an attempt to get away from the intruder,

????

I think it's in any parent's nature to want to protect their children, regardless of what awful and horrible things they have done. By no means am I saying that I would cover up one of my children's murders if the person responsible was another one of my children but IMO because of how determined PR was to keep the public's view of them being the perfect family; she had to not only protect her son but she had to protect her own image.

 

[Big Mo]

I too believe BR had much to do with her death. I don't believe he wrote the note. It was far too elaborate.
4 people were in that home. One died, and one is responsible for that death.

 

[Jackal4752]

Ok, so if the parents did do it, I have one question....why did they stage a second cause of death?

To clarify, if John, Patsy, and/or Burke killed JonBenet (by accident or on purpose) by either strangling her or by a head injury, then why cover it up by either strangling her or hitting her on the head?

Ex:

* Family member(s) kill JonBenet.
* Family member(s) decides to cover it up that they did it.
* To cover it up, family member(s) then further brutalize the already dead body to make it look like it was murdered?

Why would they fake "re-kill" the already murdered body to make it look murdered if it was already murdered?

I feel like I'm missing something here.

Thanks.

 

[Jackal4752]

Ok, so if the parents did do it, I have one question....why did they stage a second cause of death?

To clarify, if John, Patsy, and/or Burke killed JonBenet (by accident or on purpose) by either strangling her or by a head injury, then why cover it up by either strangling her or hitting her on the head?

Ex:

* Family member(s) kill JonBenet.
* Family member(s) decides to cover it up that they did it.
* To cover it up, family member(s) then further brutalize the already dead body to make it look like it was murdered?

Why would they fake "re-kill" the already murdered body to make it look murdered if it was already murdered?

I feel like I'm missing something here.

Thanks.

 

[Jackal4752]

Criminals often try and throw investigations off.

Usually they don't understand how
to plant forensic evidence or fake
a scene, say a suicide. Or they leave
evidence of searching web sites that
explain forensics etc.

Honestly from listening to investigators
the lack of control and allowing all those people into a crime scene and the D.A. s office publically fighting over the case. They created some much reasonable doubt. Likely never get a
conviction. The mother imo, would have been my main focus.

 

[Big Mo]

Getting hit in the head can happen to anybody conceivably. If Patsy thought Jonbenet was dead, or going to be brain damaged, she wanted to cover up what I assume Burke did.
It's odd that someone doesn't try to save their own child, but we don't know what condition she was in. It seems like duct tape on the hands and mouth would have been sufficient. The other details...maybe also occurred before Patsy got involved.