tresir2012
Former Member
- Joined
- May 7, 2019
- Messages
- 11,156
- Reaction score
- 56,467
Deleted dupe.
Last edited:
Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #31
- Thread starter Patch Tuesday
- Start date
New Posts
-
-
Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #181- Latest: girlhasnoname
- Status
tresir2012
Former Member
- Joined
- May 7, 2019
- Messages
- 11,156
- Reaction score
- 56,467
She apparently did not know he changed it as she found out a few days after Charles was killed. Then sent an angry text.
Chandler did not close the case but passed it over to the prosecutor's department for them to decide about it. When the confessed shooter died and their witnesses disappeared then all they can do is wait for other jurisdictions autopsy results. MOO
tresir2012
Former Member
- Joined
- May 7, 2019
- Messages
- 11,156
- Reaction score
- 56,467
Chandler PD confirms investigation into an email from Charles Vallow before his death
As we are discussing Chandler PD I would like to discuss this email that apparently was written to Chad from Charles but was actually put together by Lori. It is in the link above. CV discussed this with AdC around the end of June. In the letter a holiday is mentioned and I wonder what holiday that could be? The 4th July or an earlier one in May? The reason I am asking is because I would like to try and find out what the "family emergency" was in May that prevented Chad being at a scheduled conference. Also, the fact he was going to contact Tammy is another premeditation motive in his murder IMO.
These are the public holidays so IMO it was either the May or July holiday. As he was discussing this with AdC 28 Jun, I am wondering if this had taken place already and Chad had been found out and it was the cause of the May "family emergency".
New Year's Day
Tue, 1 Jan 2019
Martin Luther King Jr. Day
Mon, 21 Jan 2019
Memorial Day
Mon, 27 May 2019
Independence Day
Thu, 4 Jul 2019
Labor Day
Mon, 2 Sep 2019
Veterans Day
Mon, 11 Nov 2019
Thanksgiving
Thu, 28 Nov 2019
Christmas Day
Wed, 25 Dec 2019
As we are discussing Chandler PD I would like to discuss this email that apparently was written to Chad from Charles but was actually put together by Lori. It is in the link above. CV discussed this with AdC around the end of June. In the letter a holiday is mentioned and I wonder what holiday that could be? The 4th July or an earlier one in May? The reason I am asking is because I would like to try and find out what the "family emergency" was in May that prevented Chad being at a scheduled conference. Also, the fact he was going to contact Tammy is another premeditation motive in his murder IMO.
These are the public holidays so IMO it was either the May or July holiday. As he was discussing this with AdC 28 Jun, I am wondering if this had taken place already and Chad had been found out and it was the cause of the May "family emergency".
New Year's Day
Tue, 1 Jan 2019
Martin Luther King Jr. Day
Mon, 21 Jan 2019
Memorial Day
Mon, 27 May 2019
Independence Day
Thu, 4 Jul 2019
Labor Day
Mon, 2 Sep 2019
Veterans Day
Mon, 11 Nov 2019
Thanksgiving
Thu, 28 Nov 2019
Christmas Day
Wed, 25 Dec 2019
Last edited:
Tortoise
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Oct 15, 2015
- Messages
- 26,232
- Reaction score
- 131,809
It's a bit of a ridiculous thing to do, to put a password on a life insurance policy locking the policy holder out. If that's not going to spark an investigation by the policy holder, and draw attention to the fraudster's aim to preserve themselves as beneficiary, the minute they can't access their own account, I don't know what will. Unless the plan is to kill the policy holder within seconds of them discovering it, or they think Charles is too dumb to do anything about it and will just shrug his shoulders in defeat.
What explanations can we think of for her to do such a thing, knowing it would lead back to her, with no one else having an interest in the policy?
Was she planning to kill Charles in late January/early February?
I have a growing suspicion that the reason she went to police in January was another set up - for exactly that purpose. To get on record that she feared Charles and had to get out with the children to a hotel for their safety, (after threatening to murder him!) but he trumped her with his petition for psych evaluation and he managed to sidetrack her. Lori quickly mumbled the words 'restraining order', lumping it in with what Mow advised her to do, but she said it so indistinctly it was as if she was too nervous to utter the words. Either that or she thought a restraining order would mean she couldn't get close enough to him to murder him. She is reporting a stolen purse taken when she wasn't even present, so no physical threat, but I think her purpose is to get Charles as a danger on police radar.
Did she leave the car unlocked with her purse inside on purpose?
It seems convenient she had the spare car key on her and drove away. I think Tylee said something about her car key being with her other keys, I'll have to try and dig it up.
Why did MGibb delete the message Charles sent from Lori's phone? Was she deleting Lori's other messages and deleted that one with it?
I think it's very interesting to revisit her police interview and consider it with this possibility in mind. (link to complete transcript at end). I've drawn out some of the statements that interest me: (- my interpretations in pink, not to be taken as fact but my OPINION)
LV: I had the door locked but the sunroof was open, because we have a service dog and he was in the car and I didn’t want to, my son was kind of throwing a fit I didn’t want to get them both out of the car cause it was a mess this morning, [laughs]
So I didn’t lock the door for like the first time ever, and he like whatever. Either got it out, I don’t know if the door was locked he got it out or he reached through the sunroof and just got it. - she got tangled up in her own lies; she had the story ready about Bailey but you see the irrelevance of that (and the contrivance) once she discloses she doesn't even know if the car was locked.
LV: and got my friend lured over to the house to meet him, where he had like kicked in the door to get into the house, and stuff, so. - read Charles kicks things, so he's violent.
LV: That’s why I’m glad we weren’t there.
MG: He said, ‘can you come to the house now?’ And I said ‘sure’. And [I?] proceeded to act like he was himself. - is MG nervous to be uttering this nonsense? Anyone else have a different idea of what she says here?
MG: I don’t have it (Charles' text) on my phone. But, so when I got there I said um, ‘you’ve been using Lori’s phone to connect with me’. He was ‘sorry, I’ve deceived you’. I said ’Oh, okay, how you doing, luckily there were some other people there that were… (- read Charles is dangerous into this)
LV: [interrupts] So he got, he was changing the locks and probably having the door fixed where he’d kicked it in. - same again.
O: Oh okay, what did he ask you? [...]
MG: ‘Where is she?’ Course I didn’t say where she was. I didn’t know where she was, she didn’t actually tell me. - why the many attempts to say one simple fact? Notice what came out first, "course". Of course = naturally. I didn't say, not I couldn't say. It reads to me as a scramble to edit the first sentence uttered, which was the truth. And why put "actually" in the final edit?
LV: I didn’t tell anybody what hotel we’re at cause I said it’s safer for everybody to not know [laughing] - "I said" means she said it, before this happened. WHY, if there was no set-up and this wasn't going to happen today? Why is everybody unsafe?
LV: He just goes nuts sometimes. - no concrete allegation of DV
MG: She’s just trying to protect herself. - danger
LV: But I just left with the kids cause I don’t want them in all the drama (says with a smile and turning to look straight at Tylee by her side), so - suddenly forgets the danger narrative, now it's drama. Smiling (and laughing) does not fit with the fear felt by an abuse or DV victim.
O: So then he took your phone and purse and has he tried to make contact with you since?
LV: He’s tried to contact me through her… I don’t have a way to be contacted - clearly she does, see her next statement. Plus she was in contact with Gibb and Mow before she got to the police dept.
MG: I didn’t know what her ph…, I couldn’t contact her - again look at what is uttered first. I'm certain she was going to say 'I didn't know what her phone number was'. Why would she say this if she didn't know Lori had a new phone?
LV: Nobody could contact me, I just went and bought a phone so I could have a phone, a little throwaway phone so I could - using her mom's old phone means this is a lie. She most likely already had it ready to go and doesn't want them to know that, otherwise what is the problem with telling the truth? The lie reveals she is hiding something. A plan.
MG: Yeah. I said 'would you be willing to give me the purse for Lori?' You know. - how does she know Charles has Lori's purse? This is all she has said about what she knows: "But, so when I got there I said um, ‘you’ve been using Lori’s phone to connect with me’. He was ‘sorry, I’ve deceived you’.
LV: I don’t want to meet him, cause I don’t know, he’s very sneaky, so like what he’ll do is meet me in the parking lot and mess around with me, you know, whatever, like he’s not going to just… - sneaky? did Lori go to a hotel because Charles is sneaky? Why doesn't she mention violence?
LV: Yeah Vallow. Mhm. Charles Vallow. So my friend told me, my friend that’s a police officer, he said go file a report, file a restraining order, all that stuff, I don’t want to do all that stuff, I just wanted it to be on record and if we can get the purse back that’ll be lovely, cause all my stuff is in there. I’m really mad about my lip gloss. (laughter) - restraining order for a purse? BOOM - the prospect of the purse being returned will be lovely, it's secondary to putting this on record. She let slip her primary purpose.
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE* NO DISCUSSION
It looks to me as if Lori engineered the whole thing; going to the hotel, taking the money and Charles' things, leaving her purse in the car, having the spare car key with her, having a replacement phone ready to contact MG and JM, and she didn't even care about getting her purse returned. Didn't want (or need) a restraining order. Just to have Charles on record as a danger to her, but never saying he has ever hurt them or threatened to hurt them before. So that she could kill him in self-defense.
Then she realized he had found out about her interfering with his insurance policy so she came back and invested a couple of months in the relationship to create distance between that and his murder.
MOO
What explanations can we think of for her to do such a thing, knowing it would lead back to her, with no one else having an interest in the policy?
Was she planning to kill Charles in late January/early February?
I have a growing suspicion that the reason she went to police in January was another set up - for exactly that purpose. To get on record that she feared Charles and had to get out with the children to a hotel for their safety, (after threatening to murder him!) but he trumped her with his petition for psych evaluation and he managed to sidetrack her. Lori quickly mumbled the words 'restraining order', lumping it in with what Mow advised her to do, but she said it so indistinctly it was as if she was too nervous to utter the words. Either that or she thought a restraining order would mean she couldn't get close enough to him to murder him. She is reporting a stolen purse taken when she wasn't even present, so no physical threat, but I think her purpose is to get Charles as a danger on police radar.
Did she leave the car unlocked with her purse inside on purpose?
It seems convenient she had the spare car key on her and drove away. I think Tylee said something about her car key being with her other keys, I'll have to try and dig it up.
Why did MGibb delete the message Charles sent from Lori's phone? Was she deleting Lori's other messages and deleted that one with it?
I think it's very interesting to revisit her police interview and consider it with this possibility in mind. (link to complete transcript at end). I've drawn out some of the statements that interest me: (- my interpretations in pink, not to be taken as fact but my OPINION)
LV: I had the door locked but the sunroof was open, because we have a service dog and he was in the car and I didn’t want to, my son was kind of throwing a fit I didn’t want to get them both out of the car cause it was a mess this morning, [laughs]
So I didn’t lock the door for like the first time ever, and he like whatever. Either got it out, I don’t know if the door was locked he got it out or he reached through the sunroof and just got it. - she got tangled up in her own lies; she had the story ready about Bailey but you see the irrelevance of that (and the contrivance) once she discloses she doesn't even know if the car was locked.
LV: and got my friend lured over to the house to meet him, where he had like kicked in the door to get into the house, and stuff, so. - read Charles kicks things, so he's violent.
LV: That’s why I’m glad we weren’t there.
MG: He said, ‘can you come to the house now?’ And I said ‘sure’. And [I?] proceeded to act like he was himself. - is MG nervous to be uttering this nonsense? Anyone else have a different idea of what she says here?
MG: I don’t have it (Charles' text) on my phone. But, so when I got there I said um, ‘you’ve been using Lori’s phone to connect with me’. He was ‘sorry, I’ve deceived you’. I said ’Oh, okay, how you doing, luckily there were some other people there that were… (- read Charles is dangerous into this)
LV: [interrupts] So he got, he was changing the locks and probably having the door fixed where he’d kicked it in. - same again.
O: Oh okay, what did he ask you? [...]
MG: ‘Where is she?’ Course I didn’t say where she was. I didn’t know where she was, she didn’t actually tell me. - why the many attempts to say one simple fact? Notice what came out first, "course". Of course = naturally. I didn't say, not I couldn't say. It reads to me as a scramble to edit the first sentence uttered, which was the truth. And why put "actually" in the final edit?
LV: I didn’t tell anybody what hotel we’re at cause I said it’s safer for everybody to not know [laughing] - "I said" means she said it, before this happened. WHY, if there was no set-up and this wasn't going to happen today? Why is everybody unsafe?
LV: He just goes nuts sometimes. - no concrete allegation of DV
MG: She’s just trying to protect herself. - danger
LV: But I just left with the kids cause I don’t want them in all the drama (says with a smile and turning to look straight at Tylee by her side), so - suddenly forgets the danger narrative, now it's drama. Smiling (and laughing) does not fit with the fear felt by an abuse or DV victim.
O: So then he took your phone and purse and has he tried to make contact with you since?
LV: He’s tried to contact me through her… I don’t have a way to be contacted - clearly she does, see her next statement. Plus she was in contact with Gibb and Mow before she got to the police dept.
MG: I didn’t know what her ph…, I couldn’t contact her - again look at what is uttered first. I'm certain she was going to say 'I didn't know what her phone number was'. Why would she say this if she didn't know Lori had a new phone?
LV: Nobody could contact me, I just went and bought a phone so I could have a phone, a little throwaway phone so I could - using her mom's old phone means this is a lie. She most likely already had it ready to go and doesn't want them to know that, otherwise what is the problem with telling the truth? The lie reveals she is hiding something. A plan.
MG: Yeah. I said 'would you be willing to give me the purse for Lori?' You know. - how does she know Charles has Lori's purse? This is all she has said about what she knows: "But, so when I got there I said um, ‘you’ve been using Lori’s phone to connect with me’. He was ‘sorry, I’ve deceived you’.
LV: I don’t want to meet him, cause I don’t know, he’s very sneaky, so like what he’ll do is meet me in the parking lot and mess around with me, you know, whatever, like he’s not going to just… - sneaky? did Lori go to a hotel because Charles is sneaky? Why doesn't she mention violence?
LV: Yeah Vallow. Mhm. Charles Vallow. So my friend told me, my friend that’s a police officer, he said go file a report, file a restraining order, all that stuff, I don’t want to do all that stuff, I just wanted it to be on record and if we can get the purse back that’ll be lovely, cause all my stuff is in there. I’m really mad about my lip gloss. (laughter) - restraining order for a purse? BOOM - the prospect of the purse being returned will be lovely, it's secondary to putting this on record. She let slip her primary purpose.
ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE* NO DISCUSSION
It looks to me as if Lori engineered the whole thing; going to the hotel, taking the money and Charles' things, leaving her purse in the car, having the spare car key with her, having a replacement phone ready to contact MG and JM, and she didn't even care about getting her purse returned. Didn't want (or need) a restraining order. Just to have Charles on record as a danger to her, but never saying he has ever hurt them or threatened to hurt them before. So that she could kill him in self-defense.
Then she realized he had found out about her interfering with his insurance policy so she came back and invested a couple of months in the relationship to create distance between that and his murder.
MOO
LE definitely put her in a bulletproof vest underneath the jail uniform. In some of the photos taken when she waltzed out of the courtroom you can see part of the black vest underneath.
DI_Isokawa
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2020
- Messages
- 609
- Reaction score
- 5,570
Yeah, my comment was misleadingly short. When I said "accomplished criminal" I really meant he had jail time where he could have learned the ins and outs of evidence, etc. from his fellow inmates, and could have been the source of the "hey, let's trash the crime scene" suggestion rather than Lori.
DI_Isokawa
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2020
- Messages
- 609
- Reaction score
- 5,570
Maybe earlier. And maybe not just her. There's an old counterintelligence principle that says when you see someone acting in ways that can't be readily explained by their immediate circumstances or motives, don't waste time overthinking those circumstances and motives but start looking for a hidden puppet master pulling the strings. Just an observation
Gigi3
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 23, 2019
- Messages
- 1,749
- Reaction score
- 26,891
I sure hope LE found her “throw away” phone. I would imagine there’s probably some good information on that phone.
Of course, it’s probably destroyed by now, but the fact that she is on record admitting to having one is crazy. Well, I guess that’s par for the course with this case- the whole damn thing is crazy!! MOO
Of course, it’s probably destroyed by now, but the fact that she is on record admitting to having one is crazy. Well, I guess that’s par for the course with this case- the whole damn thing is crazy!! MOO
Diddian
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2020
- Messages
- 2,825
- Reaction score
- 47,598
Charles' email to Adam is dated June 29, 2019 and Charles mentions "she sent this yesterday and I guess she forgot all her emails are on the computer at my house." (BBM.) So, presumably LV emailed the letter to Chad on June 28, 2019.
The letter says, "I'm out of town until Saturday, but I would gladly fly you down here early next week before the holiday and cover your expenses..."
The Saturday after June 28, 2019 is June 29, so the letter must have been intended to communicate that Chad was invited to visit early in the week leading up to the July 4 holiday.
Note that a lot was going on in LV's life that week. CV moved back from TX in late June to try to make the relationship work, JJ had been re-enrolled in LIFE Academy and was also enrolled in a summer program there, CV and LV rented a house in Chandler on about June 20, and LV did a July 2 podcast with MG. Late June, LV's niece, Melani had also told BB she wanted a divorce.
It's also interesting that the letter mentions that Charles had hosted Chad before, back in November: "we really enjoyed having you stay with us back in November," and later "you could stay in our guest room like before..."
The letter may have been serving to falsely explain why Chad was not going to have a hotel reservation to show his wife relating to an upcoming trip to AZ, but also to falsely explain why he had no hotel bill he could show his wife related to his earlier stay in November 2018. According to the timeline, Chad came to Mesa to speak for a "prepper" event November 16-17, 2018 and that is supposedly where he met LV (ETA: at least according to the timeline posted here).
indicolite22
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2019
- Messages
- 9,675
- Reaction score
- 79,277
How did Lori know that Charles would have taken her purse?
As far as her plans to kill him back in February, according to Kay, she was telling people that Charles would be dead "any day now". IIRC she had a car crash in mind. Chad had visions of Tammy dying in a car accident (per Julie Rowe), so maybe he planted the idea.
indicolite22
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2019
- Messages
- 9,675
- Reaction score
- 79,277
If the idea of a burner phone crossed her mind, surely she'd use one to talk to Chad.
Last edited:
indicolite22
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2019
- Messages
- 9,675
- Reaction score
- 79,277
Where would Chad have stayed in July in Lori's plan worked? The Chandler house had no furniture, apart from Lori's bedroom. Was she counting on Charles being on a business trip during Chad's stay? What about her children, were they familiar with Chad?
Gigi3
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 23, 2019
- Messages
- 1,749
- Reaction score
- 26,891
Honestly, I think she thought Charles would be dead by then and perhaps she would have access to his million dollar policy. She probably would’ve let him sleep in her bed.
MOO
Alpha Bravo
Cuff em' and Stuff em'
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2019
- Messages
- 782
- Reaction score
- 6,426
Excuse this please if previously posted, I hadn't seen it, an interactive timeline of the Daybell case. Not included is this week's bond hearing.
Interactive Timeline: Search for two missing children and their parents | FOX 10 Phoenix
Interactive Timeline: Search for two missing children and their parents | FOX 10 Phoenix
MoM3tzger
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2020
- Messages
- 115
- Reaction score
- 1,090
Did anyone notice the Chandler PD police body cam of the responding police officer for the shooting of CV on July 11, 2019 time starts at 1541 (3:41PM)? And a second officer’s cam reads the same time frame (27:06).
Could they both be programmed with the wrong time or did the CPD arrive around 3-4PM for a shooting that happened around 8AM?
Could they both be programmed with the wrong time or did the CPD arrive around 3-4PM for a shooting that happened around 8AM?
CSIDreamer
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jul 31, 2015
- Messages
- 9,906
- Reaction score
- 79,958
I think the cams are on GMT.
MoM3tzger
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2020
- Messages
- 115
- Reaction score
- 1,090
Ah! That explains it. Thank you so much @CSIDreamer.
Diddian
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2020
- Messages
- 2,825
- Reaction score
- 47,598
I suspect CD would stay with LV in a hotel room rented by LV if he were to come in July and that he did the same in November. In January 2020, CV found a hotel card key from Hyatt in LV's purse and assumed that was where she was staying when she was away from home that time. Perhaps that was also LV's and CD's preferred hotel (in either Chandler or Mesa) in November 2018 and July 2019 as well. CD was also in the area the previous July (2018), shortly after JR died, so it's possible there was a stay then too.
Experience (my own and that of close friends and family) has taught me that cheaters lie with ease and they fabricate proof to support their lies and that is what that letter looks like to me - something CD can show his wife to justify his absence (a prospective client who will pay fees to have Chad ghostwrite his book) as well as explain the lack of a hotel bill for the nights he spent away from home supposedly working that prospect.
I know someone whose wife fabricated a funeral flyer to support her false claim that she'd been attending the out of town funeral of a former coworker with several other coworkers who knew him. She'd actually traveled alone to meet her lover for a few nights stay out of town (as documented by the private investigator my friend hired).
tresir2012
Former Member
- Joined
- May 7, 2019
- Messages
- 11,156
- Reaction score
- 56,467
I think he actually met her well before then, possibly even in 2015/2016. Her attorney is requesting emails and documents back to the beginning of 2016.
tresir2012
Former Member
- Joined
- May 7, 2019
- Messages
- 11,156
- Reaction score
- 56,467
I don't think he was going to stay at the house at all. Charles was not supposed to see this email but it was just an alibi for Chad to be away from Tammy. Lying, cheating, murderers.
- Status