GA - Ahmaud Arbery, 25, jogger, fatally shot by former PD and son, Brunswick, Feb 2020

[Jillyg]

You're misunderstanding me. My theory is that it wasn't Arbery on the surveillance videos in the first place. I'm suggesting that McMichael thought Arbery looked vaguely familiar but didn't know where from. So, given that he was in the neighborhood, McMichael jumped to the conclusion that he was the guy from the videos he was shown the previous October when the real reason Arbery looked vaguely familiar was the 2018 investigation into the stolen television.

It doesn't matter. Even though he was obviously the guy from the video it's what they believed that counts in their defense.

 

[nao]

It is not Ahmaud that caused this situation. Maybe he did this or that or the other. You cannot go hunting humans.

 

[Cappuccino]

It doesn't matter. Even though he was obviously the guy from the video it's what they believed that counts in their defense.

It's not obvious at all that he's the guy from the CCTV footage from October/November of last year. That could very easily be someone else.

 

[Jillyg]

It is not Ahmaud that caused this situation. Maybe he did this or that or the other. You cannot go hunting humans.

No one was hunting anyone

 

[Boxer]

No one was hunting anyone

They are peer civilians and saw no crime committed. They chased and blocked him.
Guess that makes it kidnapping.
Killing someone while in commision of a felony like kidnapping is a heavy duty crime, especially enhanced with a firearm, that's why his buds in the DA office try to sweep it under the rug and pass it off as self defense.

 

[nao]

If you got a long gun that close that you can grab it..
That is way over the line..what would you do?

 

[nao]

If person comes in your space..you defend yourself.. They found a target and hunted him.

 

[Hope4More]

You're misunderstanding me. My theory is that it wasn't Arbery on the surveillance videos in the first place. I'm suggesting that McMichael thought Arbery looked vaguely familiar but didn't know where from. So, given that he was in the neighborhood, McMichael jumped to the conclusion that he was the guy from the videos he was shown the previous October when the real reason Arbery looked vaguely familiar was the 2018 investigation into the stolen television.

No, I did understand what you were saying. I just don't believe Senior would have recognized Ahmaud in any case, much less instaneously and from a distance.

IMO what he saw was a young black man wearing shorts and leapt to the conclusion that man was the same person he had seen in the nighttime surveillance videos posted on the neighborhood's FB page. Because the person in the videos was black and wearing shorts. Which were the only similarities between Ahmaud and the nameless person seen on the videos.

Just as salient IMO is that the nameless person in the videos is not seen burglaring anything, and the property owner has said nothing was ever stolen from there. That seems like a whole lot of nothing kind of reason for immediately grabbing guns and going in "hot pursuit."

 

[Hope4More]

It doesn't matter. Even though he was obviously the guy from the video it's what they believed that counts in their defense.

Obviously the guy from what video? Ahmaud has been identified as the guy from the video (inside English's unfinished house) taken minutes before he was chased and killed. Senior couldn't have seen that video beforehand.

And there is nothing obvious about Ahmaud being the man in the nighttime surveillance videos. In fact, IMO if anything is obvious about the man in those other videos, it is that the man wasn't Ahmaud.

 

[Cappuccino]

No, I did understand what you were saying. I just don't believe Senior would have recognized Ahmaud in any case, much less instaneously and from a distance.

IMO what he saw was a young black man wearing shorts and leapt to the conclusion that man was the same person he had seen in the nighttime surveillance videos posted on the neighborhood's FB page. Because the person in the videos was black and wearing shorts. Which were the only similarities between Ahmaud and the nameless person seen on the videos.

Just as salient IMO is that the nameless person in the videos is not seen burglaring anything, and the property owner has said nothing was ever stolen from there. That seems like a whole lot of nothing kind of reason for immediately grabbing guns and going in "hot pursuit."

Maybe, it's just a theory.

It does seem like a nothing reason to chase someone, although they did report a gun stolen from their truck back in January so maybe they were assuming that the night time trespasser and the gun thief were the same person.

 

[LietKynes]

They are peer civilians and saw no crime committed. They chased and blocked him.
Guess that makes it kidnapping.
Killing someone while in commission of a felony like kidnapping is a heavy duty crime, especially enhanced with a firearm, that's why his buds in the DA office try to sweep it under the rug and pass it off as self defense.

Agreed.
Good thing the McMichael's have corrupt DA's for friends.
What a mess this city and county are.
No, you do not 'sweep' a man's death under the rug.
Heads need to roll over this.

 

[MsBetsy]

Is that a boat in the night time video? If so it makes more sense about the fishing equipment.

There was nothing stolen from the home. English is quoted by the Washington Post, saying, "That's completely wrong. I've never had a police report or anything stolen from my property or any kind of robbery."

From the WTOC11 article, his lawyer Elizabeth Graddy stated that he never shared the video or any information with the McMichaels prior to their decision to chase Arbery. He also did not think the photos of Arbery in the news looked like the man in the nighttime video. When he first contacted LE to report the trespassing, he never mentioned a burglary.

The attorney said that English said even if there had been a robbery, he would not have wanted a vigilante response.

"The only crime the homeowner has seen captured on video is the senseless killing of Mr. Arbery."

I think the only person who claimed the home was burglarized was one of the first prosecutors on the case, yet the report of the incident indicates only unlawful trespassing.

Graddy "questions whether the first two prosecutors handling the case violated the Georgia Bars Rules of Professional Responsibility." - WTOC 11

 

[Boxer]

Maybe, it's just a theory.

It does seem like a nothing reason to chase someone, although they did report a gun stolen from their truck back in January so maybe they were assuming that the night time trespasser and the gun thief were the same person.

Assumimg? Even detaining Arbery was a crime.
Was McMicheal an ex-cop or not?

 

[Hope4More]

Maybe, it's just a theory.

It does seem like a nothing reason to chase someone, although they did report a gun stolen from their truck back in January so maybe they were assuming that the night time trespasser and the gun thief were the same person.

Maybe. Though I have my doubts Junior's gun was actually stolen. It would have to have been stolen from Junior's truck in broad daylight, sometime in a short, approximately 2 hour window, in the morning, and on January 1, New Year's Day, when good guess is that most of Junior's neighbors were home.

I don't doubt that Senior and Junior were extremely......interested? in the serial trespassing by someone onto English's construction site. It was Junior, after all, who made the only known report to LE about that trespasser. On English's, not his own property.

But what's telling is that Overalls was just as......interested, and just as inaccurate in equating trespasses with burglaries, as was Bryan. As was 911 caller #2, whoever he was, if he wasn't Bryan.

 

[branmuffin]

This thread is so depressing. We have a young man dead and even though we are a victim friendly site, some people are assuming he just had to have deserved it. Assuming his family is lying about him being a jogger. Assuming that if he wasn't a jogger he was in the neighborhood with bad intent. Assuming he was stealing even though video doesn't show anything being stolen. Assuming he was the perpetrator of some unreported thefts. Assuming he didn't have a job because that hasn't made it to the news yet, and acting like that also would bestow upon him bad intent.

Assuming that the people responsible for his death believed him to be the perpetrator of unreported thefts. Assuming that the people responsible for his death were acting in self defense. Assuming that the people responsible for his death are justified in making a citizen's arrest, apparently for misdemeanor trespass, since that's the only thing they saw him do and GA law required eyes-on for a citizen's arrest. Assuming that it took three people in two vehicles, and a gun (or was it two?) to protect this neighborhood from a trespasser who MIGHT have had the intent to steal something out of an under-construction house. In broad daylight. On foot.

Once upon a time, we were building a home. Twice, in the middle of the night, someone came in and stole building materials. This required a truck. And the darkness of night. And we assume those were adults, because kids wouldn't need construction materials. Once, in the middle of the night, someone spray painted the brick side of the house. We assume that was teenagers. None of those three times did we think we needed to confront the perpetrators with a gun. That was OUR money flying out the unfinished windows, too, not the neighbors. No guns, no violence, no three on one. No truck vs. pedestrian. We called the cops. We contacted insurance. That was it.

Trespass. Dead. Blame the victim. So depressing.

No one is entitled to be judge, jury and executioner for a perceived petty offense. I cannot wrap my head around killing someone, and feeling righteous about it, for a crime of trespass.

What concerns me even more is that the local authorities didn't seem to think a crime had even been committed. Two months elapsed before a legitimate review of the case happened. As far as the victim, I don't give a rat's *advertiser censored* about any prior charges he incurred. There's a reason why those types of facts are not introduced into a trial. Because they muddy the water and have a tendency to paint a victim as deserving of their fate. It grieves me that people who appear as upstanding citizens have a warped idea of justice.

 

[Boxer]

Maybe. Though I have my doubts Junior's gun was actually stolen. It would have to have been stolen from Junior's truck in broad daylight, sometime in a short, approximately 2 hour window, in the morning, and on January 1, New Year's Day, when good guess is that most of Junior's neighbors were home.

I don't doubt that Senior and Junior were extremely......interested? in the serial trespassing by someone onto English's construction site. It was Junior, after all, who made the only known report to LE about that trespasser. On English's, not his own property.

But what's telling is that Overalls was just as......interested, and just as inaccurate in equating trespasses with burglaries, as was Bryan. As was 911 caller #2, whoever he was, if he wasn't Bryan.

Wait Junior discovered his handgun wasn't in his truck on New Years Day?
Don't they have a ring doorbell?

 

[Cappuccino]

Maybe. Though I have my doubts Junior's gun was actually stolen. It would have to have been stolen from Junior's truck in broad daylight, sometime in a short, approximately 2 hour window, in the morning, and on January 1, New Year's Day, when good guess is that most of Junior's neighbors were home.

I don't doubt that Senior and Junior were extremely......interested? in the serial trespassing by someone onto English's construction site. It was Junior, after all, who made the only known report to LE about that trespasser. On English's, not his own property.

But what's telling is that Overalls was just as......interested, and just as inaccurate in equating trespasses with burglaries, as was Bryan. As was 911 caller #2, whoever he was, if he wasn't Bryan.

English had shared the CCTV footage on some facebook group for the neighborhood. Maybe not much happens in this neighborhood and they all talked themselves up into thinking that the night time trespasser was about to become the Brunswick serial killer or something.

Im not making excuses for them either, just trying to theorise as to why at least four people in this neighborhood had become so hyper vigilant about someone who just seems to have been a bit nosey.

 

[Hope4More]

Wait Junior discovered his handgun wasn't in his truck on New Years Day?
Don't they have a ring doorbell?

Do they? I don't know. Interesting if true.

Their story was that Junior's truck was locked overnight (New Year's Eve), but that Senior moved it around 10:30 in the AM (don't know why), and forgot to lock it up again. Then Junior supposedly came out shortly afterwards, saw an empty holster on the seat, and realized the gun was stolen. Hmmm.

 

[Boxer]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

What crime did the McMichaels witness?
McMichael was a policeman of some type. He should know what allows you to interfere with another citizen.

 

[Hope4More]

English had shared the CCTV footage on some facebook group for the neighborhood. Maybe not much happens in this neighborhood and they all talked themselves up into thinking that the night time trespasser was about to become the Brunswick serial killer or something.

Im not making excuses for them either, just trying to theorise as to why at least four people in this neighborhood had become so hyper vigilant about someone who just seems to have been a bit nosey.

I can understand peeps in a very small, and what seems cohesive neighborhood (neighborhood FB group) being concerned about trespassers. Maybe even more so if they see on a tape the same person repeatedly trespassing into the same property at night over a period of months and NOT taking anything. That's kind of creepy, imo, because it seems so irrational.

The part I don't find understandable is why those 4 told LE- not just themselves- about burglaries that hadn't happened, much less the gun- grabbing, truck chasing by Senior and Junior. And Bryan's apparently willing participation.