Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #33

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I would argue that Saturday's Warrior is from 1973, even though I watched it well into the 80s. :) And the 2015 remake didn't do well, as far as I've heard. A few months ago I was hanging out with a group from UT and CA (it's state of origin) and no one but me had seen it.

But, I haven't heard the podcasts (I started the one posted here but could. not. stand. it.) So if it is based on the Stripling Warriors, I stand corrected.

MOO
OH yes, I know it is old... I actually never saw the movie, only the stage productions when I was in mutual.. That would have been late 80s too. I was just saying "warrior" is definitely a word that has been (and stayed) in the LDS vernacular for quite some time.
 
The new body cam video reveals that CV is truly an amazing man. His sister Kay is an amazing woman for all that she has done and is doing for JJ and Tylee. Let's keep focusing on finding the kids. (That is meant to encourage. I know everyone is trying. Seeing the video just renews the urgency to find them.)
 
That footage is waaaaaaaay alarming. I keep trying to think positive but holy crap. He’s calm, concerned. He says she’s calling him a different name entirely and that Charles is dead already and no one would miss the person who has taken over and he’s “dark” . Omg. It’s really hard to think of a positive outcome harder than ever . He was gentle and rational, reasonable ......... she wouldn’t go to a doctor geez
 
I feel absolutely frustrated and sad watching that video he must have felt frustrated, helpless , and distraught. That video just is utterly heartbreaking and knowing the outcome of Charles alone is just a lot. His family have went through so much already. I pray the kids are alive but this video is incredibly alarming even more than it already was.
 
I agree, this is heartbreaking footage to watch knowing this poor man was murdered soon thereafter.
If Lori was so delusional that she believed her loved ones were being taken over by demons or whatever, then she definitely had the capacity to kill her own children. I would be shocked if they were found alive. What benefit would any cult gain from keeping those children hidden away somewhere? :-(
ETA: Will Tammy Daybell's autopsy results ever be released?
 
If Lori was so delusional that she believed her loved ones were being taken over by demons or whatever, then she definitely had the capacity to kill her own children. I would be shocked if they were found alive. What benefit would any cult gain from keeping those children hidden away somewhere? :-(
BBM. Exactly. Lori and Chad's allies are trying to sell the "threatened by the grandma" baloney, yet they admit they have no idea where the kids are. They take Chad and Lori's word for it. I don't believe a wider cult is involved in the kids' disappearance.
 
That's a very interesting thought. I wonder if the website was AVOW as their address is actually LDSavow.com. I believe Lori (and Melani, and many others in their circle) may have had an account and that's how they got caught up in the craziness and connected with the people they did. Lori may have not wanted Tylee to go down that rabbit hole (was there incriminating evidence of stuff going on between Lori and others there?).
I think it most probably was, and I agree that she didn't want Tylee to go there.

To have already identified it as crazy people means Lori had looked at what Charles sent to Tylee, and when Tylee says 'yeah' in response, she acknowledges that they have already had this discussion before they went to the police station.

I think that raises a bigger issue. This was the end of January, 3 months after Chad emailed Lori and ranked Tylee as a 4D - covering the same period "the last several months" Charles told the officer Lori had gotten really, really bad. Lori is hiding all of this from the police the day she reports her purse stolen, hiding her crazy talk about Charles being someone else and dark spirits; hiding the Lori who fits the description Charles gives - "she's not here, she's lost her reality, she's non-sensical". His 'cheating' is the cover story and Tylee believes it. We also know Lori was let go from Community Bridges the following day. The issue I think it raises is that Tylee appears to have no idea that this is what is going on with her mother, yet she is a very smart girl (IMO) and wherever Lori goes Tylee goes too, so Lori must be going out of her way to hide this side of herself (and her involvement with the website of crazy people) from Tylee. By this date Lori 'believes' Charles is possessed and by the same token she must also 'believe' Tylee is possessed. I put 'believe' in inverted commas because I'm not convinced that she doesn't see the absurdity of it. I would like to know more about hiding delusions, and also the possibility that this was another part of the indoctrination of Chad - the necessity of hiding the knowledge from people who can have you classified as insane.

Lori made sure to indoctrinate Tylee with thoughts that Charles was cheating, I believe so that Tylee would reject and not connect with Charles over the ensuing period after Lori started telling Charles he had been possessed. Tylee does not go with Charles and JJ when Lori disappears for 2 months, and tries to 'gather' up her friend April, so we see that, unless Lori broke the news of Moroni's (Chad's) temple revelations to her after the police incident at end of Jan, Lori's 'mission' is being kept a secret from her daughter. I think the actual division between mother and daughter, Lori's secret life, at the same time as keeping Tylee close to her, so early last year, is really very significant in understanding this case, and why she would eventually dispose of Tylee (murder her, imo).

It's a case of 'keep your enemies closer'. I don't believe it has to do with Tylee witnessing the murder of Charles and being a threat of talking out about that. I believe Tylee was completely in Lori's grasp, and was useful to Lori while she could be a (hearsay) witness to Lori's claims about Charles being a threat and being unfaithful, and then once Charles was gone, Lori was just moving forward with the next step of her original plan, to rid herself of the obstacles (zombies) Chad had identified. Tylee was unable to see who Lori really was, which is completely understandable given her age and who had custody of her in her formative years.

I think Chad had really very carefully assessed the chances of Tylee remaining unquestioning through the murders of Brandon and Tammy (imo), after Charles' murder (imo), to get to his goal of marrying Lori. I'm proposing he knew Tylee was about to embark on a life away from home and that distance would remove the spell of her mom, and the 'crazy people', if she was exposed to it. She wasn't an ideal recruit. So the way to counter that was to tell her it was full of crazy people. Tylee could ruin everything for him if she was aligned with Charles and became a reporter to the authorities, paving the way for his exposure as a fraud and, if she wasn't disposed of by the time it would come to happen, the criminal mastermind behind a trail of murders. I think that's why we don't see Tylee enrolling in college last year - it's critical that she be kept by Lori's side. She is encouraged to be JJ's carer because mom needs her and can't cope, as Tylee told her friend.

I really wonder about the psychological process Lori will be going through now that she is apart from Chad. Obviously she has her own abhorrent participation in this scheme, to hide from authorities, and her own contributory personality disorders (imo) that facilitated her actions, but I would like to know if Chad is maintaining pressure on her with regard to the beliefs, and if so, whether the authorities can glean this from recordings of their calls.

MOO
 
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Why is there no crying tears emoji??

These videos have been the hardest, of everything, for me to watch. Seeing Charles so concerned about his children, wondering about his recourse with a spouse he's afraid had gone so far off the deep end she may hurt his children. And to know that she (and her accomplices) killed him, and probably did the same to those kids he's so worried about. Ugh!!!! :mad:
...
ETA: Charles may not have known that CD was based in ID (at this point). That could be why he says UT. Or, he could certainly mean the larger group(s), or even just their affiliation with Mormonism.
RSBM

I so much agree! So heartbreaking and difficult to watch! It's devastating that police officers did not provide any help to CV... I understand it's easier to say looking back on what has happened later, and they were guided by their own legal procedures, but OMG there is a man, whose kids, things and money were taken away from him, by a woman that says she is god and can murder him with her powers (OT - she can also teleport, doesn't need to eat etc etc etc, so I suppose she enjoys jail if she's staying there).
On the other hand, I am sure she would be able to deceive any mental health check, based on what we know of now. Poor guy!

And I also think that UT people relates to CD and his follower gang, as he originally comes from UT. JMO

So. Lori was going to the Temple daily. While that doesn't necessarily mean she has a temple recommend (I think you can access parts of it no matter what) it still shows the importance placed on Temples. Jmo

I think daily temple visit was not necessarily the visit to LDS Temple. If CD was a prophet with his own church in LV's eyes, she could easily go "to temple" in some their own secret place to "exalt" herself by having sex or whatever with "James the Just" aka CD who was her husband in the eternity. Nice rationalization/excuse :cool: MOO

There is a word that keeps coming up associated with many of the people connected indirectly to this case, "warrior." One place of course is the podcast Lori was on was called "Warrior Up." But I keep running into it in other places. I wonder, is that a common term used in the LDS church? Or maybe in the prepper community?

I slightly remember when listening to "Warrior Up" podcast with Jason Mow, MG and LV, or reading some descriptions related to the podcast (like this one - link), they've mentioned that *as the end of times is coming* people have to wake up and become warriors for their faith as it was stated in LDS Doctrines (whatever that might mean, I am not LDS and nowhere close). All JM's books are actually related to "war" topic - link to his website , so I think this is the theme prepper groups are using as a logic to rationalize their anti-government and "extra mile" beliefs above what is in the scriptures. JMO though
 
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Great post! I think they’re anti anyone and anything that might interfere in or intrude on the Cox family way of life. The more I see and hear from these people, the angrier I get. These attempts to justify Lori’s actions are leading me to believe they never cared about the children at all.

It’s one thing to espouse oddly different religious beliefs and/or to be anti big government or anti LE. I may not agree but as long as you’re not advocating violence or interfering with my rights or anyone else’s, go right ahead. Just don’t ask for help when things don’t go the way you hoped. These people obviously have no qualms about violence, given
their casual attitude about missing children, dead spouses, attempted murders and their description of Alex, who was “not a hit man” wink wink.

This news tour they‘ve been on, with attorneys off camera, evading the questions and yammering on and on trying spin to excuses for Lori “hiding” the children makes them (in my mind, if not legally) complicit in whatever happened to the children. I hope Idaho CPS is paying close attention to this s#/%show because it’s not just spouses who are in danger here. Children appear to be expendable in this family and something has to be done before they all join JJ and Tylee “hiding out” for fear of threats and custody battles. The only people making and carrying out threats in this case seem to be members of the Cox family.
Rant over.
ALL JMO

It seems to me this whole family could be simply all delusional, every one in their own way. Many of them IMO use "I was not there, I didn't see - so it didn't happen" defense strategy. Add here "we cannot judge others" theme and not so close in reality relationships (remember, LV never invited her own mom and sister to her weddings; CR did not know where they are moving for several months; they did not talk to kids for many months and thought it's ok; JC sending message to LV, who is in Kauai, through her church friend and not directly (!) etc). So by coming forward JC and SS (maybe MBP as well) may very well just try to rationalize their own set of beliefs about LV and themselves, not necessarily being accomplices. JMO
 
That footage is waaaaaaaay alarming. I keep trying to think positive but holy crap. He’s calm, concerned. He says she’s calling him a different name entirely and that Charles is dead already and no one would miss the person who has taken over and he’s “dark” . Omg. It’s really hard to think of a positive outcome harder than ever . He was gentle and rational, reasonable ......... she wouldn’t go to a doctor geez

JMO
It sure is alarming and I think it shows why we have valid concerns about the children.

It really shows just how far off the deep end she went. So far that her husband was forced to leave her and pursue divorce.

The sad thing too is Charles tried to inform others of how strange she had become and I dont think he got much help or moral support from those he shared with. Especially not from Lori's side. Some of the ones he tried to talk to apparently jumped into the deep end of the pool with Lori, and now when legal trouble is threatened they are denying sharing similar views that Lori has.
 
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FYI (I know the thread has moved a long way past this now) the discovery request from the prosecution is just a normal form request. It is not a motion, it was filed at the normal time, it does not mean the defense is not cooperating, it does not tell us anything special about this case. Scroll down to part (c):
I.C.R. 16. Discovery and Inspection | Supreme Court
 
Oh wow, I can't believe we missed this. What despicable people...

Lori's sister and mother say that's nonsense. They claim Lori stockpiled JJ's medication, so he didn't need that pill bottle found by police. And as for Bailey?

Janis Cox: I don't think Bailey's an issue, as far as JJ is concerned.

Jonathan Vigliotti: There's a lot going on that just doesn't add up —

Janis Cox: OK. I — I do know about the dog. I was over there a lot. Charles loved Bailey. JJ was not really attached to it—

Summer Shiflet: He was fine without him.

So basically... "somebody" "thinks" Bailey is/was a pet.

Isn't that conveeeeeeenient???

Clearly Bailey was needed; because clearly JJ is autistic; and we've seen his unguarded, untended reactions on the infamous Ring camera footage, when he had no Bailey.

Plus, what about Kay's (? I think) statement that Bailey was supposed to keep JJ from getting out of bed and leaving the house at night?

IMO CBS missed a golden opportunity to return to Bailey's trainer and ask what the dog was trained to do; though perhaps too deep a dive is against HIPAA, because it sounds like nonsense to me.

Charles and Kay have told us that Lori said she "cannot handle" JJ.

In case we wonder what Lori meant by this and can't trust the evidence; people have already helpfully pointed out that Lori's showing up in Hawaii with Tylee and not JJ, proves independently that Lori in fact couldn't handle JJ; which means that someone (or some pet) has to.

Lori also separated JJ from his iPad with the calming apps on it, which JC never bothered to mention (probably "Grandma-of-the-Year" doesn't know of its existence); so there's another strike against Lori, because to hammer the nail home once again, Lori has removed every support pillar from JJ that (it now seems likely) Charles was the one to push for.

Not to say that few to none of these things actually helped JJ; for all we know, all this stuff helped him, and the only reason JC is saying it didn't is because circle-the-wagons around Lori. But now I'm starting to wonder if the Cox family is anti-doctor/medical treatment in the bargain; because it certainly doesn't seem like Alex believed in regular physicals, assuming he in fact did die of natural causes, because it's also starting to seem weird to me that Alex's trucking employer didn't require their truckers to have regular physicals.


About the physical for work...in order to have a CDL license you have to have a medical card, which requires a physical. Its fairly often. I can't remember if its once a year, or every two.
 
You have to have a recommend to do pretty much anything at the temple. Unless she was just going onto the grounds (meaning, the grass outside, or to walk on the sidewalk), but that's not what it sounded like to me. You would only expect to "speak" (commune/pray) with God/Jesus/anyone unearthly inside certain places in the temple. Even most who work at the temple are usually only there max a few times a week. Going daily is very unusual, and if she'd been doing that for years or months?? Most of what goes on inside takes a couple hours, it would be such a huge time commitment with children it's mind boggling.

It speaks of zealotry or scrupulosity (MOO).

ETA official wording: "those who do not have a current temple recommend are welcome on temple grounds, and most temples have a room where they can wait while family members are being sealed." But literally this room is just that--a waiting room. No one would go in to just sit there, you would be expected to be waiting for others to come out of whatever they were doing, and sitting in there daily, there's almost zero chance. There are workers everywhere asking you where you're headed so they can show you where to go, you would not go unnoticed.

RSBM

I so much agree! So heartbreaking and difficult to watch! It's devastating that police officers did not provide any help to CV... I understand it's easier to say looking back on what has happened later, and they were guided by their own legal procedures, but OMG there is a man, whose kids, things and money were taken away from him, by a woman that says she is god and can murder him with her powers (OT - she can also teleport, doesn't need to eat etc etc etc, so I suppose she enjoys jail if she's staying there).
On the other hand, I am sure she would be able to deceive any mental health check, based on what we know of now. Poor guy!

And I also think that UT people relates to CD and his follower gang, as he originally comes from UT. JMO



I think daily temple visit was not necessarily the visit to LDS Temple. If CD was a prophet with his own church in LV's eyes, she could easily go "to temple" in some their own secret place to "exalt" herself by having sex or whatever with "James the Just" aka CD who was her husband in the eternity. Nice rationalization/excuse :cool: MOO



I slightly remember when listening to "Warrior Up" podcast with Jason Mow, MG and LV, or reading some descriptions related to the podcast (like this one - link), they've mentioned that *as the end of times is coming* people have to wake up and become warriors for their faith as it was stated in LDS Doctrines (whatever that might mean, I am not LDS and nowhere close). All JM's books are actually related to "war" topic - link to his website , so I think this is the theme prepper groups are using as a logic to rationalize their anti-government and "extra mile" beliefs above what is in the scriptures. JMO though

Yeah, that’s what I’m thinking, that Lori coattailed on someone who did have a recommend to the temple.

Either that, or ‘I’m in temple every day’ was a smokescreen for Lori to do whatever she wanted without questioning from non-LDS-raised Charles.

About the physical for work...in order to have a CDL license you have to have a medical card, which requires a physical. Its fairly often. I can't remember if its once a year, or every two.

Oh, that’s interesting... thanks. I wonder if Alex’s autopsy results were congruent with what you would expect for someone with regular medical checkups. Any of our medical people know?
 
My focus is on finding the kids. There is a lot going on behind the scenes that can't be posted on the forums because of the TOS.

If you believe the kids are alive as I do then you know that there are 3 people they cannot be with: Alex Cox because he is dead, Lori because she is in jail, and Chad because he is under a microscope. Unfortunately these are the only people we are allowed to publicly post about here. Yes, we can repeat things shown on MSM about the wider family as well but none of them are going to say anything incriminating on MSM. So basically we are only allowed to post about the 3 people that definitely don't have the kids.

So many of us are digging deeper on our own. There is a LOT that has happened with our cast of characters in the last few years that seems to point to a much bigger operation and much deeper connections among a very large group than can't be explained by one woman wanting to get rid of her kids. Many were surprised to hear Charles say in the recently released video that this has been going on for 4-5 years. I was not surprised at all. The breadcrumbs have been out there for several years in public records and elsewhere. Things seemed to start happening in at least 2017 and likely going back to Chad's decision to move to Rexburg.

I've lived in Rexburg for over thirty years, but I'm not an active Mormon so I'm out of the loop, and I've never heard anything about this kind of a group here. Doesn't mean that there isn't. It might explain why Chad hasn't been arrested yet and why it seems nothing is happening. If it's even bigger and involves more people, that will take time to sort out. I keep going back to something Nate Eaton of EIN said in the second (I believe) Dateline special. He said he got a call form (law enforcement?) and they tipped him off. They said imagine the most wild, out-there story you can and multiply it by 100. Sorry, I don't remember the exact quote but it stuck in my mind. Maybe it's going to blow us all away when it all comes out.
 
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