OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #54

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Even if she did wear a disguise they would have her vehicle on video in the parking lot. I don't understand her shopping at 5 Walmarts in the State of Ohio.
How would that throw LE off? I can't think of a reason to drive all over the State going to different Walmarts unless she thought it would throw off the investigation.
Going to a couple different Walmarts is normal but not 5.

....Note there is an image from April 21st, 2016....

Images (4-2-16) (4-15-16) (4-21-16)
Walmart - Coshocton, OH _ 63 Miles ENE of Columbus

4 Images and receipts
Walmart - Heath, OH _ 30 Miles East of Columbus

8 Images
Walmart - New Boston, OH _ Village in Portsmouth

7 Images
Walmart - Newark, OH _ 33 Miles East of Columbus

5 Images and receipts (4-7-16)
Walmart - Waverly, OH _ Waverly is where the Pike County Courthouse is.


Rhoden family members release video plea for information about killings

"Chris had one even in a bird house, one of those shell cameras. We ain't heard on none of that either. Kenneth had cameras all over that place where he lived," Leonard Manley said.

IMO, It begins with the delusion,"We are smart, we will not get caught."
 
I also remember how sad RN was, crying, when she took a plea deal with the prosecution. She knew she was giving them information that would put her daughter and grandkids in jail for a long time. Shortly after, LE conducted another search of Flying W Farms. JMO, it sounds like RN heard a lot of details about the murders and hiding of evidence from Angela. Thanks to RN, the state probably has more than enough to win convictions against the 4 Wagners. Perhaps GW4 has more details that might help, but can we be certain the state even needs to give him a deal for more info? Possible, but perhaps not.
 
IMO, It begins with the delusion,"We are smart, we will not get caught."

Don't forget their favorite movie, "Boondock Saints" which probably had them convinced they were on a "mission from God" to wipe out the Rhoden Family. JMO, the whole Wagner family is a little delusional about their power, privilege and "goodness" in the area.
 
Post from January 21, 2020 GW4 hearing:

IType Well-Known Member:

"BBM--during that conversation after the hearing was adjourned, I overheard a background conversation with two women. the person called to someone named "Robin" and asked a question, I don't recall the exact wording. The "Robin" answered her by saying something about taking presents and mentioned a "little boy". She mentioned several dinosaur toys. I wonder if the "Robin" is RW and she was talking about taking Christmas presents to GW4's son. IMO"

"GW4 certainly looked very concerned today. Maybe there will be a YouTube video up soon so I can watch itain."

I think IType is right about Robin and the Christmas presents. It could be that Robin is helping build a bridge between GW4 and his son, after all, there is a photo of Robin teary eyed at GW4's arraignment.

( Go to Bing Search and type in "George Wagner IV Court" then click on IMAGES. Photo is 2nd row 4th photo down, ENLARGE photo. Robin is with Chris, Angie's brother.)

I suspect Angie relies on her brother because he set up her 3-way call between Jake, Rita and Angela.

Point is, if GW4 is getting any type of help or support from Robin, then I'm surprised that he ignored Fred that day in court. For him to ignore her rather than giving her a simple nod acknowledging her presence could be, as you say, that he blames her for something. Maybe for the incriminating recordings made at her house?

I do not think he is ignoring her because of strict adherence to the no-contact order. Other possibilities are that he was just not in the mood to see anybody, or he can't look family in the eye because he is turning against his family members.

Sometimes I feel like he is a time bomb waiting to go off. If your right that he has low impulse control then he could, in a moment of frustration, blurt out something bad that could be used against him to staff, on the phone, through letters, to other inmates etc...

Right now the biggest thing is to see if and when he finally gets a new hearing date, it's been 4 months!

BBM
he can't look family in the eye because he is turning against his family members.

I think this could be hitting the nail right on the head. Also because the more he sits in his solitary cell thinking about his situation the madder he gets about getting dragged into Jake's circus. And somehow Fred is getting some of the fallout of his anger.

blurt out something bad
I think he already has. I think he cut a deal so he can see his son.

Think of it this way. He won full custody of his son. That is still hard for a man to do even in this day and age and he had to have some compelling evidence that his ex wasn't fit or was a danger to the boy. The fact that his ex was visiting the boy in HIS home (Re: the sick baby incident. Don't remember where it was printed but remember reading she had to take her other child to the ER with an OD of Valium (I think it was Valium anyway, someone correct me if I am wrong.) makes me think the ex had supervised visits only.

Then comes the psych eval when she went after custody of the child after he was in jail. That shows that he would rather his son go to a foster home than be with his ex since he knew that his parents and grandmothers were arrested with him and unlikely to get custody of the boy over his ex. So he would rather see his son with total strangers than her. That's very telling.

Pretty compelling evidence that he strongly believes his son is in some kind of physical or psychological danger with his ex or her partner. So not much of a leap to believe he would cut a deal for less time or even to get to see his son in person alone so he could make sure the boy was doing okay. Or to get the prosecutors to make sure his son goes to someone other than his ex.

is right about Robin and the Christmas presents. It could be that Robin is helping build a bridge between GW4 and his son
Ever think about why Fred or Rita wasn't delivering those Xmas presents to the child rather than Robin? After all George's ex and her mother supposedly worked for Fred. Why did Fred suddenly become unwelcome to visit the boy at Xmas and give him presents once the ex had custody?

O/T
Then you have Jake's new wife who according to her "ran for her life" and apparently is still running even with Jake and crew locked up tight in jail. Someone certainly put the fear of the devil in that girl. Also makes me wonder why she didn't run home to her parents. Was Alaska not far enough for her to feel safe?

JMO
 
They thought they would get away with it because they had been getting away with much lesser crimes for years. They had friends in high places in local government, probably not just in Pike County. They thought the false information they were providing LE and prosecutors would direct attention elsewhere, a tactic they had probably used before with other criminal activity. It came very close to working. JMO, had BCI and the AG's office not been involved, this would have remained a cold case. Sheriff Reader would have encountered dead ends and resistance in his investigation. Prosecutor Junk would have resisted bringing charges against the Wags.

Wags lost their perspective in comprehending how killing so many people from one family, with innocent children nearby would attract worldwide media attention.

I agree with this but I also keep thinking maybe they didn’t plan to kill 8.

Maybe they didn’t know Gary was gonna be there. Maybe Gary was dropped off at CRSr’s by Kenneth so then they had to go get K too.

Maybe FR and HG weren’t originally included but there was so much commotion at CRSr’s. He was awake and it took a lot more shots than planned, then Gary too. So then they included FR and HG out of fear they heard or saw something.

That would have been 4 rather than 8. This is all JMO trying to see how the number could have been different.

It just seems crazy that they could think an 8 person massacre would become a cold case.
 
I agree with this but I also keep thinking maybe they didn’t plan to kill 8.

Maybe they didn’t know Gary was gonna be there. Maybe Gary was dropped off at CRSr’s by Kenneth so then they had to go get K too.

Maybe FR and HG weren’t originally included but there was so much commotion at CRSr’s. He was awake and it took a lot more shots than planned, then Gary too. So then they included FR and HG out of fear they heard or saw something.

That would have been 4 rather than 8. This is all JMO trying to see how the number could have been different.

It just seems crazy that they could think an 8 person massacre would become a cold case.

They went to 3 homes and a camper and knew who was in them. They had planned to get past Kenneth's dog Brownie, planned how to get into his camper, and planned to make it look like a Cartel hit by leaving money over his legs. According to BJM he had security cameras and according to his daughter KR he was paranoid about security and had alot of security.

The Wagners dismantled and stole his security system (part of their burglary charge) and that had to be planned to know where they were. Maybe they missed a camera, that would be great.

The Wagners would have known Gary was staying with Chris Sr. because they were spying on the family. According to Tony and Gary's step mother, Gary was living with Chris. Because he was living there and not just visiting back and forth, I believe he was specifically targeted. Same with HG.

Now if Gary was not living with Chris and HG was not living with Frankie then I
do not think they would have been targeted but that was not the case, instead, they were closely tied into Chris Senior 's family and whatever rage the Wagners had for Chris and his family, they also had it towards Gary and HG. The number of unnecessary shots shows rage.


"The Rhoden's cousin Gary had been living and working alongside Chris Sr. for several months. Chris Sr. had worked to get Gary off of drugs and alcohol and had helped him repeatedly to stay clean and sober, said Gary’s stepmother, Ruth Rhoden."

“Chris got him off of all that stuff,” she said, adding that Gary often worked with Chris Sr. at Big Bear Lake.

That meant that paydays would come and Chris would hold back most of Gary’s pay to ensure he wouldn’t spend it on drugs. Instead of giving him the money, he would go shopping or run errands with his cousin.

“He was really, really good to Gary,” she said.

The two had worked together at the lake, putting on some finishing touches on a wooden playground near the entrance of the camping area. "

Pike County: Death in the foothills

"Everyone was a hard worker, Tony said. Kenneth drove to Columbus to work every day, and Chris Sr. liked to fix up cars. That’s why Gary was staying in Piketon, to help him with them."

'A man can't bear it,' relative of Pike County victims says
 
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I also remember how sad RN was, crying, when she took a plea deal with the prosecution. She knew she was giving them information that would put her daughter and grandkids in jail for a long time. Shortly after, LE conducted another search of Flying W Farms. JMO, it sounds like RN heard a lot of details about the murders and hiding of evidence from Angela. Thanks to RN, the state probably has more than enough to win convictions against the 4 Wagners. Perhaps GW4 has more details that might help, but can we be certain the state even needs to give him a deal for more info? Possible, but perhaps not.
Maybe what he would have to say would make the others plea and save the families the pain of trials. We can only hope.
 
I sometimes think he was the one who sat home and babysat the kids that night. Other times I think with his quick temper he would have been in the thick of it all.

JMO
I always wondered who stayed with the babies that night. It also made me think that’s why he is so angry and vocal because he really wasn’t there and remember they said there was no dna evidence against him
 
I sometimes think he was the one who sat home and babysat the kids that night. Other times I think with his quick temper he would have been in the thick of it all.

JMO
IMO, on the night of the murders, I can't see Billy taking on CRs without GW. That is the reason I think GW was in attendance. Billy needed GW's muscle.
 
I always wondered who stayed with the babies that night. It also made me think that’s why he is so angry and vocal because he really wasn’t there and remember they said there was no dna evidence against him
I remember Sheriff Reader saying all 8 murders occured in a very short period of time, like around 30 minutes or so. I wouldn't put it past the W's to have dosed the two kids so they slept and locked them in a room. JMO
 
This is my opinion and mine only of what went down.

Hanna leaves Jake. Having evidence (per AC) that Jake was abusive to Hanna, Jake did not take kindly to losing a woman he had groomed since she was 13. She moved on and wouldn't come back so Jake figures he will get custody of SW and then Hanna will have to come back to him if she wants to see her daughter and it is the very best way to hurt Hanna, through her daughter. This is a typical move of your everyday garden variety abuser who wants back the person he is abusing because they do not see their victim as a person but an object they own completely.

Jake goes to Angie. Jake is by far Angie's favorite, so she buys into whatever tales he has to tell. Jake may have told her that SW said something but he certainly used the family history (Clarence) to hammer into Angie's head (without any evidence IMO) that SW was in danger if not from family, then from all those men Hanna was dragging in. After all she was pregnant with one man's child and going out with another. So Angie drinks the "Save SW" Koolaid.

Angie goes to Billy. I believe that Billy is a little of what we call a "slow" thinker. She nibbles on his hind end for a while until he becomes convinced that SW is in danger. So he drinks the "Save SW Koolaid". At this point I do not believe it has moved to murder yet. After all according to Fred, Billy and Chris were best friends. Billy thinks Chris will listen to what he has to say and agree with him. So Billy goes to Chris with what Angie has pounded into his head and tells Chris then demands Hanna sign over parental rights. This enrages Chris (that past history of Clarence's had to be a sensitive spot for Chris and probably Kenny also). Big Billy never imagined he would be on the losing side of Chris's anger but should have remembered that old saying "the bigger they are, the harder they fall." Besides Chris was fighting for the honor of his family and especially the daughter that by all family accounts was his favorite that he adored.

Billy drags his wounded pride and sore hind end back home to his family. He tells George (who as I said through observing his looks and behavior in court) has little impulse control and a hair trigger temper. George who I also believe is a little "slow" explodes in anger about the treatment of dear dad and says "let's teach them all a lesson they will never forget".

A murder plot is born with each member having their own agenda. Jake smirks and smiles because finally after 6 months his show is on the road and revenge on Hanna is well on it's way.

Even now that he is sitting in jail facing trial he cannot help but smile a very pleased smile. Because his motive was not to get custody of SW or "save" her but to hurt Hanna as much as he could because she betrayed him after he had groomed her for six long years and after all his hard work how dare she just up and leave.

Now that George has had time to cool down (and sit in his solitary cell, read his Bible and think) he has seen the error of his ways and realizes he has sent his son back to the very person (his ex-wife) that he did not want to have him (evidenced by the fact that he demanded a psych eval of his ex while he was behind bars) in an effort to keep his son out of her hands. This is why I think he will take any deal offered to him and throw the rest of his family under the bus.

Plus something about the way that Fred acts toward George in the courtroom makes me think she is more protective of him and believes he was sucked into it all by Jake and Angie. I can't put my finger on it but something in her face when she looks at George is missing when she looks at Jake. It's like she clearly believes that George is a "victim" of Angie and especially Jake.

I feel like this is the only explanation for George getting involved at all and why he will roll on them all. He had nothing to gain and who in their right mind would go kill 8 people just so his brother can get custody of a child.

Would any of you kill 8 people for your brother to get custody of his child? Think about it and what George had to gain.

JMO
I like your theory. But still gotta think on George being the one who would say "let's teach them all a lesson they will never forget". George, more than the others, is a mystery to me.
 
There is something about Jake that creeps the heck out of me. Behind his eyes, the odd smile, and his voice. I can see him as having the mind of a psychopath, and perhaps Angie too. I believe Jake was extremely influential, particularly with Angie, and was the one who set the events into play. MOO....
 
They went to 3 homes and a camper and knew who was in them. They had planned to get past Kenneth's dog Brownie, planned how to get into his camper, and planned to make it look like a Cartel hit by leaving money over his legs. According to BJM he had security cameras and according to his daughter KR he was paranoid about security and had alot of security.

The Wagners dismantled and stole his security system (part of their burglary charge) and that had to be planned to know where they were. Maybe they missed a camera, that would be great.

The Wagners would have known Gary was staying with Chris Sr. because they were spying on the family. According to Tony and Gary's step mother, Gary was living with Chris. Because he was living there and not just visiting back and forth, I believe he was specifically targeted. Same with HG.

Now if Gary was not living with Chris and HG was not living with Frankie then I
do not think they would have been targeted but that was not the case, instead, they were closely tied into Chris Senior 's family and whatever rage the Wagners had for Chris and his family, they also had it towards Gary and HG. The number of unnecessary shots shows rage.


"The Rhoden's cousin Gary had been living and working alongside Chris Sr. for several months. Chris Sr. had worked to get Gary off of drugs and alcohol and had helped him repeatedly to stay clean and sober, said Gary’s stepmother, Ruth Rhoden."

“Chris got him off of all that stuff,” she said, adding that Gary often worked with Chris Sr. at Big Bear Lake.

That meant that paydays would come and Chris would hold back most of Gary’s pay to ensure he wouldn’t spend it on drugs. Instead of giving him the money, he would go shopping or run errands with his cousin.

“He was really, really good to Gary,” she said.

The two had worked together at the lake, putting on some finishing touches on a wooden playground near the entrance of the camping area. "

Pike County: Death in the foothills

"Everyone was a hard worker, Tony said. Kenneth drove to Columbus to work every day, and Chris Sr. liked to fix up cars. That’s why Gary was staying in Piketon, to help him with them."

'A man can't bear it,' relative of Pike County victims says

All good and very compelling points that they did plan 8 from the beginning !!
 
Even if she did wear a disguise they would have her vehicle on video in the parking lot. I don't understand her shopping at 5 Walmarts in the State of Ohio.
How would that throw LE off? I can't think of a reason to drive all over the State going to different Walmarts unless she thought it would throw off the investigation.
Going to a couple different Walmarts is normal but not 5.

....Note there is an image from April 21st, 2016....

Images (4-2-16) (4-15-16) (4-21-16)
Walmart - Coshocton, OH _ 63 Miles ENE of Columbus

4 Images and receipts
Walmart - Heath, OH _ 30 Miles East of Columbus

8 Images
Walmart - New Boston, OH _ Village in Portsmouth

7 Images
Walmart - Newark, OH _ 33 Miles East of Columbus

5 Images and receipts (4-7-16)
Walmart - Waverly, OH _ Waverly is where the Pike County Courthouse is.


Rhoden family members release video plea for information about killings

"Chris had one even in a bird house, one of those shell cameras. We ain't heard on none of that either. Kenneth had cameras all over that place where he lived," Leonard Manley said.
Two ideas come to mind behind the Ohio tour of Walmarts.

First of all, if they were looking for multiple pair of matching boots in specific sizes, it is highly unlikely they could find all of them at one store. At least judging by the usual lack of inventory at Walmarts around me!

The other thing I wonder about is if they were purchasing products with a store limit of how many you could buy at once. Cold medicine behind the Pharmacy counter? ammo?
 
IMO, on the night of the murders, I can't see Billy taking on CRs without GW. That is the reason I think GW was in attendance. Billy needed GW's muscle.
GR was shot with two different caliber bullets too. Makes you wonder if one shot him twice and then another came over and shot him again. Who the other was, my bet would be GW3 micromanaging with GR because CRSR put up a fight and he wanted to make sure GR was dead. Just my thoughts.
 
Two ideas come to mind behind the Ohio tour of Walmarts.

First of all, if they were looking for multiple pair of matching boots in specific sizes, it is highly unlikely they could find all of them at one store. At least judging by the usual lack of inventory at Walmarts around me!

The other thing I wonder about is if they were purchasing products with a store limit of how many you could buy at once. Cold medicine behind the Pharmacy counter? ammo?
...2 Cents...
It is possible they were hunting around for just the right boots but why drive all over Ohio when they could simply order them? Because ordering them leaves a shipping record and credit card or PayPal trail leading directly to them, which is why I suspect in the stores they paid cash.

There is something that backs up what you are saying about the Wagners searching
various Walmarts for just the right boots, and I'll add that they needed just the right size and model of bullets, brass catchers, bug detectors and parts to build a silencer like maglite flashlights amongst other items.

All 5 Walmarts have images listed and I think this is the Wagners on security footage. Only 2 of the Walmarts list receipts. What could have happened is they went looking in different Walmarts for just the right items and in 3 of the stores they didn't find anything but they can still be seen on video looking for specific items. Then in 2 of the stores they found what they wanted, paid cash, then threw out the receipts.

The problem for the Wagners is that Walmart is very strong on security and digital tracking of inventory and items sold. Walmart can generate their own receipts so it didn't matter that the Wagners likely threw out their receipts because LE could get the receipts directly from Walmart.

Walmart is probably the worst store to shop in if you have secrets to hide.

Cybersecurity - Walmart

500,000 network devices, 38,000 servers, 3 global data centers, and 250 million customer transactions per week—Walmart’s technology footprint is massive. Our Cyber Security team sees over 200 billion events each year, so we need a team of highly adaptable security technologists to stay ahead of that curve.
 
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