MN - George Floyd, 46, unarmed, killed in police custody, Minneapolis, 25 May 2020 *arrests* #2

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Aiding and abetting requires two mental states. First, a person must know that someone is going to commit a crime. Second, the person must intend any actions to further that crime. So in this case, not only do they need to prove that these three other officers knew Chauvin was murdering Floyd, but also that their actions were with the intent to help Chauvin murder Floyd. Take note that these guys are charged with aiding and abetting an unintentional second degree murder though. Having mulled over the article I linked and after browsing some Minnesota statutes, I think the required intent for aiding and abetting second degree murder is going to be very difficult to prove against these guys.
 
Gardenista said:
Thinking this over, I'm still PO'd he didn't get 1st degree. LEO knew George didn't have a pulse and CPR could have saved him.
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How do they know he had no pulse? I didn't see anyone checking his pulse.

Police are required to be CPR certified, and every police cruiser is equipped with an AED.

According to the Red Cross guidelines, CPR begins with tilting the head back and opening the airway. Then check pulse at the carotid artery (extremity vessels are usually constricted).

For an adult, 2 or 4 minutes is not a long time down. One or two joltz and he might have been okay.

They didn't allow the bystanders to intervene and they didn't even try :(
 
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SleuthBee said:
How do they know he had no pulse? I didn't see anyone checking his pulse.

Police are required to be CPR certified, and every police cruiser is equipped with an AED.

According to the Red Cross guidelines, CPR begins with tilting the head back and opening the airway. Then check pulse at the carotid artery (extremity vessels are usually constricted).

For an adult, 2 or 4 minutes is not a long time down. One or two joltz and he might have been okay.

I am sorry, I think I am going to be ill.
Click to expand...

It's in the arrest warrant.
 
I thought this was the new case against Tou Thao (one of the officers) but it's from 2017!

The Civil Rights investigation into the Minneapolis Police Department will be very busy!

Lamar Ferguson v Tou Thao and (the name of another police officer) (2017)
Within complaint against Tou Thao and another Minneapolis police officer:
" kicks, and knees to the face and body while Plaintiff was defenseless and handcuffed, was so extreme that it caused Plaintiff to suffer broken teeth as well as other bruising and trauma."

Under TOS, I can't post the link to the court case because the case involved another officer who was not involved in George Floyd's death.

But I can post this link to a news article all about it:

Black man says he had his teeth shattered by police officer involved in George Floyd's death | Daily Mail Online

" [Thao] was the most aggressive one"
 
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I wonder if the underlying felony of third degree assault isn't going to create issues as well. Simply put, they've charged Chauvin with the Minnesotan variant of felony murder. Most states require that the predicate felony have a purpose that’s independent from the killing though. In other words, it must be an “independent” felony. If it isn’t, the crimes “merge,” meaning that the defendant can be convicted of and sentenced for only the greater offense. Usually a felony assault that kills someone won’t qualify as felony murder, but is charged as regular murder or manslaughter. But maybe Minnesota is an exception.
 
Gardenista said:
Thinking this over, I'm still PO'd he didn't get 1st degree. LEO knew George didn't have a pulse and CPR could have saved him.
Click to expand...

They
Mandos said:
An excellent article by a Minnesotan law professor, explaining the nuances of Minnesotan homicide law. Seems like a conviction will be no slam dunk.

Derek Chauvin’s Actions Were Cruel. But a Conviction Won’t Come Easily.
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Convicting police of murder is very very difficult: think of all the cops who have been acquitted who were charged with murder. In this particular case I think the charge of 2nd degree was made to try and ensure a conviction: no jury IMO will convict a police officer of first degree. The jury will now have an option of third degree as well, just like in Justine Damond.
 
SleuthBee said:
How do they know he had no pulse? I didn't see anyone checking his pulse.

Police are required to be CPR certified, and every police cruiser is equipped with an AED.

According to the Red Cross guidelines, CPR begins with tilting the head back and opening the airway. Then check pulse at the carotid artery (extremity vessels are usually constricted).

For an adult, 2 or 4 minutes is not a long time down. One or two joltz and he might have been okay.

They didn't allow the bystanders to intervene and they didn't even try :(
Click to expand...

In the arrest documents, there was a comment about checking his pulse. I would think that came from the yet unreleased BWC. it will be important to know which officer said it. As that officer was fully aware that Mr. Floyd was dead or dying and did not attempt to save him.


The checked the pulse near his wrist. However, had the primary killer moved they could have checked the carotid artery pulse (it is easier to feel a thready pulse there) but they did not. They had to have training in CPR and First Aid. They did not perform any life saving maneuvers for whatever reason. Four minutes is usual beginning of brain damage. I don't think these men cared about saving him. There seemed to be little or no concern about his welfare.

You know, it is one thing to have an excited action and kill someone by mistake. I keep thinking about the length of time that these killers had to reverse course, stand up and save this man---it feels so much greater than depraved indifference to me.
 
ilovewings said:
They


Convicting police of murder is very very difficult: think of all the cops who have been acquitted who were charged with murder. In this particular case I think the charge of 2nd degree was made to try and ensure a conviction: no jury IMO will convict a police officer of first degree. The jury will now have an option of third degree as well, just like in Justine Damond.
Click to expand...

I struggle with the idea of juries not convicting on first degree murder. In so many cases there are ambiguities but in this case we have an 8 minute plus (closer to 9 minutes). They knew he had no pulse after being a living, breathing man. They did nothing that they were trained to do. They performed outside of their training in rendering aid AND by using positioning that was known to have lethal consequences. If a jury can't convict on this, I don't know.......then, the system is irrevocably broken.
 
Heavily redacted personnel files show that Chauvin, a 19-year veteran of the force, was initially trained as a cook and served in the Army as a military police officer. Eleven-year veteran and native Hmong speaker Tou Thao began as a community service officer and was the subject of six complaints. The other two officers were relative newcomers to the department, including Thomas Lane, a former juvenile detention guard who did volunteer work with Somali refugees, and J. Alexander Kueng, who got his start in law enforcement by patrolling his college campus and a department store.
What to know about 4 officers charged in George Floyd's death
 
mickey2942 said:
https://nypost.com/2020/06/02/george-floyd-had-violent-criminal-history-minneapolis-union-chief/

This is interesting. Looks like the union is ready to support the officers. No surprise.
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Dear @mickey2942,

With all due respect to unions, it looks like it's no surprise coming from him (Bob Kroll), in my opinion.

MPD Union President, Bob Kroll's actions will be thoroughly investigated by the Civil Rights investigators.

Minneapolis Police Union President: “I’ve Been Involved in Three Shootings Myself, and Not a One of Them Has Bothered Me”

"According to a 2015 Star Tribune report, Kroll clocked at least 20 internal affairs complaints during his three decades in the Minneapolis Police Department, “all but three of which were closed without discipline.”

"There have also been several lawsuits against Kroll, detailing a long history of allegations of bigoted comments, including one that accused him of using excessive force against an elderly couple during a no-knock raid and another that accused him of “beating, choking, and kicking” a biracial 15-year-old boy while “spewing racial slurs.”
 
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@DavidBegnaud

All four officers charged in the death of George Floyd are now in custody.


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Mandos said:
Aiding and abetting requires two mental states. First, a person must know that someone is going to commit a crime. Second, the person must intend any actions to further that crime. So in this case, not only do they need to prove that these three other officers knew Chauvin was murdering Floyd, but also that their actions were with the intent to help Chauvin murder Floyd. Take note that these guys are charged with aiding and abetting an unintentional second degree murder though. Having mulled over the article I linked and after browsing some Minnesota statutes, I think the required intent for aiding and abetting second degree murder is going to be very difficult to prove against these guys.
Click to expand...
They have to start high, so they can do the plea deals for lower charges.
 
New charges in George Floyd's death: Derek Chauvin faces second-degree murder; 3 other officers charged

New charges in George Floyd's death: Derek Chauvin faces second-degree murder; 3 other officers charged

Lorenzo Reyes, USA TODAY
3 hrs ago
...
All four police officers in the killing of George Floyd will face charges, Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar said Wednesday, and court papers described more troubling details about how officers did nothing to stop Floyd from dying on the ground.

"Minnesota Attorney General Keith Ellison is increasing charges against Derek Chauvin to 2nd degree in George Floyd’s murder and also charging other 3 officers. This is another important step for justice," the Democratic senator tweeted.
Thao, according to a criminal complaint filed Wednesday, stood by as Floyd repeatedly said he could not breathe. Court papers describe Thao as being more concerned about controlling the nearby crowd than Floyd's welfare.

Thao "became concerned about a number of citizens who had gathered and were watching the officers subdue Mr. Floyd, and potential traffic concerns, and so the defendant stood between those citizens and the three officers restraining Mr. Floyd," the charging papers said.

Thomas Lane, J.A. Keung and Tou Thao were the other officers on the scene. Thou was charged with aiding and abetting second degree murder in the commission of a felony; the other officers face similar charges of aiding and abetting.

The bail for all four officers was set at $1 million.
The officer had moments earlier "looked directly at how Chauvin was restraining Mr. Floyd, with Chauvin's knee on Mr. Floyd's neck area," according to the court records. "When one citizen stepped off the curb. imploring Chauvin to get off Mr. Floyd, (Thao) put his hands on the citizen to keep him back."
 
Everyone needs to read that article posted by Mandos and the comments below the article...very interesting and it explains a lot of the questions we have. You may not like the answers, I wasn't too thrilled!
 
kaen said:
In the arrest documents, there was a comment about checking his pulse. I would think that came from the yet unreleased BWC. it will be important to know which officer said it. As that officer was fully aware that Mr. Floyd was dead or dying and did not attempt to save him.


The checked the pulse near his wrist. However, had the primary killer moved they could have checked the carotid artery pulse (it is easier to feel a thready pulse there) but they did not. They had to have training in CPR and First Aid. They did not perform any life saving maneuvers for whatever reason. Four minutes is usual beginning of brain damage. I don't think these men cared about saving him. There seemed to be little or no concern about his welfare.

You know, it is one thing to have an excited action and kill someone by mistake. I keep thinking about the length of time that these killers had to reverse course, stand up and save this man---it feels so much greater than depraved indifference to me.
Click to expand...
@kaen , Police officers are required to be certified in BLS and retrained every other year. The pulse must be checked at the carotid artery. I watched the video again and did not see anyone check a pulse. The didn't even open his airway. His wrists were in cuffs behind his back.

GF was already in the car, so why did Chauvin pull him out?

The first call for EMS was for bleeding in the mouth and a code 2 (no lights & sirens). Then soon after he calls back real quick to say code 3. I think that officer realized it was a bad scene, and that was the best he felt he could do to help GF. He may be the officer that was new.

I couldn't tell if it was Chauvin taunting GF to get in the car. Describing Chauvin as depraved is kind.
 
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