Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #38

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Depending on the amount of foam or froth, and how pronounced the color was I think would help us.

I luckily have never witnessed someone dying but I have seen enough movies of people dying of a heart attack and maybe a little drooling and such would be expected. But if the foam and froth was a large amount and if it had a distinct color then I think it could help lean towards some sort of injested substance.

Its hard without knowing the exact details of what the scene looked like upon arrival.

My dad died of the widow maker (heart attack), my mom of stage four cancer, and my grandma from dementia. I was present for all their deaths (not for the heart attack itself but we pulled the plug and I sat with my mom while he flatlined). None of them foamed at the mouth. My dad’s friend who was with him when he had the heart attack and attempted CPR has never mentioned foam and it’s been thirteen years. My mom never mentioned it when her dad died in front of her from congestive heart failure.
 
I love this post. It seems to me like the closest to a rational explanation for the search, discovery, and arrest as one can get. Jmo
Yes. Sealing the info may be important in discovering who may have known details relating to the location or condition of the bodies. If it is all public then it is harder to sift out people that may have been involved.
 
Were the kids buried in the yard while Tammy was still alive and living in the house? :eek::mad:

It's certainly possible... Tylee last seen Sept 8th? JJ Sept 23rd...

Tammy Shot at on Oct 8th, and "suddenly died" Oct 18th.... 3 days later buried with no Autopsy!

All a bit too convenient! and according to her friend who visited the day before her death:
“I was coming to ask her about another book recommendation, and she was just really busy and didn’t want to talk a lot,” Fowler explained. “ She seemed maybe kind of frustrated, and that wasn’t typical of her.”
 
havent started reading this new thread, about to now.
just wanted to post 2 things that are really sticking to me atm .

first.
poor little JJ. god my heart aches thinking about his last few months of life.
trapped in the company of lori:mad: (whom had declining love and care factor for him).

- having his adoring father charles suddenly taken from him, just the separation already and moving would have been difficult enough for him.
- lori was hell bent on keeping kay and larry away from him in spite.
- moving him again to another strange school.
- selling his precious support dog.
- taking him off his medication.
- the sudden disappearance of his main care giver tylee must have been so isolating to him.
- i havent even processed the thoughts yet of his actual murder. praying.... god please have granted him a quick transition to heaven :( i am suspicious lori killed him herself.

the cruelty of this despicable woman to this beautiful special needs boy is beyond measure.
I despise her.

second.
the barron, treeless, flat, open small field chad disposed of them.
blows my mind. he is seriously an egg short of a dozen.

what we know now......its so kinda obvious ...what took LE so long to discover it?
if they were led there by a direct source and not their own surveillance what chance is there of finding missing persons where murderers hide bodies in actual wilderness. :oops:
(not police bashing just pointing out the difficulties faced)

moo
 
Yes. I agree. Plus something hard to trace. Metabolizes quickly. IMO

Well the good news is they seized a lot of computer resources from the Daybell home during the original search warrant execution. Hopefully he slipped up and did some Googling on them that has pointed LE in a direction. It's possible that he limited all his illicit searching to his burner phone but I kinda doubt it.
 
JMO
A long time back when I first started to read about this case and learned about the many suspicious deaths, murders, attempted murders, and the disappearances of the children, it was pretty easy to see there was a common link that pointed directly to LD and CD. So I wondered and still wonder why it did not seem like there ever was a serious LE investigation into those two people before now.

There are only two options I can think of why it wasnt pursued more until now.

Option 1
Maybe the LE department in their home town where CD lived was so small that they really did not have the experience or manpower to handle a case like this or even to recognize that the writing was on the walls.
Watching LE behave when Lori arrived at Charles murder scene tends to make me think that maybe option 1 is a possibility. For them to not see how Lori had guilt written all over her smirking face when she arrived on scene tends to make me think option 1 could be a real possibility.

Option 2
I have no real basis for theory other than I have been wondering about this more lately since the news we just learned of LE needing to seal some things to protect some mystery person or persons. Could there be a LE officer or two that was not necessarily in Chad's close knit cultish group but maybe instead had read his books and became a big fan of his. Maybe even believing some of the nonsense CD was spewing. Something like this option 2 could explain the lack of an in depth investigation into CD and LD before now. At least initially until Kay, Larry, and Nate forced things to be looked at.

I have no idea if either of these options have any merit but I cant explain why there seems to have not been a good investigation into those two people way before now. Or maybe there was and they were not making progress until now.

For all I know they may have in fact been investigating them for a long time and maybe just now got to the point where actions could be taken.
 
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I think this was a very suspicious death and the autopsy would have been extremely thorough.

And, anyway, who would really want him dead? He seems to have been extremely loyal and supportive of LV. It seems his new wife had been someone she knew, ie he was introduced to her by his sister and maybe CD. There was gossip about LV and AC having a fight in the street, but it appears he was seen frequently on video visiting the storage locker, so they were still connected.

Pulmonary Edema is linked to emotional stress, and I would think AC was under a lot of stress - he'd shoot at/kill people, was under investigation for homicide, newly married, and certainly knew about the missing children if not directly involved.
BBM--JMO but I think you answered your own question
"who would really want him dead??"
My guess would be the same people you listed above who knew that he knew everything you mentioned.
Plus you offered all the reasons to 'WHY" they would want him dead.
JMO
 
IDK. I mean with Jones you have the emergent paranoia and jealousy, the logistics of managing a faraway colony once the funding streams are cut off, increasing newspaper editorials and defector accusations of serious abuse, government inspections interpreted as threats, his own increasing physical difficulties and drug dependence, etc. The wheels were coming off, and he was a delusional control freak without a shred of empathy. But I think he was a believer, at least early on, and the apocalyptic turn has a noticeable curve. And he was a well-known preacher in a recognizable religious stream with some hefty backers -- again, initially at least. There's a track record, a corpus of thinking, a history of beliefs, however dangerous and strange they became.

CD seems like a petty criminal, by comparison -- and I'm not really talking about the crimes. I mean, who is he, really? Small-town sexton, fringe publisher, one of how many doomsday visionaries without even his own visions to sustain him, borrowing (possibly) someone else's NDE to validate himself? Maybe he believed his own stuff, or maybe he viewed himself as a disruptor, chafing under the life he found himself in, and what began as a seduction became something he couldn't stop without losing the object of his lust/obsession.

If he thinks that his visioning/preaching/propheseying/whatevs is what won him his "beauty queen," then maybe he can't get off that train without losing her. They reinforce and feed each other, and within a year there are 3,4,5 bodies and it's over.

IDK. I think he was a believer, of a kind, but mostly I think he believed in his own potential worth/ greatness and finally saw a way to make others believe it too.

Agreed! And I've said it before but Chad is sort of the poster child for Midlife crisis mixed with a very pathetic Beta male, gutless personality. He loved and craved the tiny bit of attention he received from being a 'self proclaimed Prophet'. It was more convenience then true belief...

His NDE was SO PATHETIC! Infact he never claimed to have experienced such a thing until AFTER he published the JR NDE books.... and his brush with death.... wait for it..... A scary wave with mild undertow knocked him into the water.... GIVE ME A BREAK!

Chad is a loser, he wasn't going anywhere and was desperate for a different life.... Well he got one! Too bad he had to run into delusional homicide Barbie.... A very toxic match made in Hades!

Okay, rant over!
 
Well the good news is they seized a lot of computer resources from the Daybell home during the original search warrant execution. Hopefully he slipped up and did some Googling on them that has pointed LE in a direction. It's possible that he limited all his illicit searching to his burner phone but I kinda doubt it.
I also think that LEO have been doing a whole lot of cell ping searches for specific dates immediately after the children went missing. They did seize 43 items (mostly technology stuff IIRC) from CD''s home during the warrant for TD's death. Once they had those in their posession they might have even found the bat phones (throw away) that Lori alluded to and MG said they had.
If LEO could put CD in those ping locations during specific times - along with aerial footage, bon fire reports, family members moving, applying for laying foundations for another home on the property - lots to consider.
Nate did say that it was a bunch of little bits that all fell together all at one time for the big picture.
 
diggndeeperstill said:
He called him by name in the 911 call.

He (Joseph) didn't know Alex' last name. Ironically it was the same as his mother's at the time of Alex' death.

He also said that Alex was his mom's BOYFRIEND
He didn't know his last name and he didn't know that his mom and Alex were married.
Secrets, Secrets everywhere
 
Sorry if a double post...Fast moving Twitter today :

https://twitter.com/AdamHerbets/status/1271453601248899072
If Chad Daybell finds a way to post bond, there do not seem to be any restrictions that would prevent him from returning to his home, so long as he wears an ankle monitor. Local bondsmen say it's very unlikely Chad Daybell would be able to find a company willing to work w/ him.







"As a bondman I'm trying to protect the 8th Amendment. Everyone has a right to a reasonable bail while they're on trial. Now that they've found the remains buried on his property, you try not to be judge and jury, but that makes it a little difficult." (1/2)

7:45 AM · Jun 12, 2020·Twitter Web App

Won’t that be cozy, especially if they make him stay with Emma?
 
Yes! You're hitting on the most interesting psychological aspects of this! If we subtract the murders, the rest of this is like virtually every other mid-life-crisis-affair. An insecure, schlubby nerd meets a "hot" yet equally insecure counterpart, they decide that the other person is their soul-mate that fixes all their problems (magically), and they decide to leave their unappreciated spouses behind. The power of pitocin! But in the vast majority of the rest of those stories, financial and emotional ruin are the only consequences. Not murder and mayhem. So what's the extra ingredient here, that led to the murder and mayhem? I think I have read (somebody please correct me if I'm wrong) that her friends have suggested that Lori was showing signs of a major behavioral changes even before she met Chad. Or did her change in behavior line up with when she met Chad?

I think Lori had a psychotic break not long before she met Chad. Or maybe when she met him, maybe even as a result(?) of meeting him. I think Chad's a fantasist and a liar who tells stories to make himself feel bigger and more important. Writing is an obvious outlet for that, but imagine the power you feel when you can find people who will see you and treat you as their prophet in real life!? In Lori, he found someone suggestible who would hang on his every word, have sex with him, and help weaponize his fantasies into action. She was his True Believer. She not only believed everything he said, but was willing to act on it, either directly, or through her brother Alex as a proxy, to violent ends if needed.

Everything we've heard from Melanie Gibb suggests that Lori really believed all the bulls**t that CD was spinning. Her irritatingly smug demeanor in court and elsewhere has always telegraphed "you're all full of crap, because you don't know what I know". Not so much a criminal who thinks they've gotten away with something we can never figure out, but more like "I am not guilty of anything, I have done the right thing, and you can't comprehend that because you are not a Translated Being(tm)".

On the other hand, CD is not so smug. Neither his photos nor his on-camera demeanor suggest that to me. He has always known he was making all this **** up, and that was all OK, right up until the point that Lori/Alex killed Charles. He had purpose-built a narrative to drive her away from her husband and her children... the whole 'zombie' and 'light/dark' scale, his card game rating system including the sexual prowess of Translated Beings (all totally self-serving). The only thing that's not clear to me is whether he knowingly incited her to kill Charles or not. Everything beyond that--to Chad-- was damage control. Tylee, JJ, and Tammy (and maybe Alex) were all big risks and knew too much. They all knew something and they all stood in the way.They had to go. I wonder if Lori even knew that he had killed the kids? Did she believe he really teleported them to the other side of the veil?

What do you all think? Was Lori the mastermind, or did she fall under Chad's spell and things went out of control?
I think Lori was the mastermind. And thank you for the great post.
 
One of the questions I have had about Chad from day one is whether or not he was a true believer. When I read his blog posts and comments he's made in interviews, I always get the impression that he is a master manipulator. He uses language in a way that simultaneously advances self-serving narratives and denies that he's doing anything other than describing the world as he sees it. He has, as I've written before, a "tell." While conveying the most fantastical things, he invariably professes bewilderment at other things that really aren't all that improbable.

YES! This is exactly what I'm saying, less eloquently, elsewhere in this thread. Though neither of them fits any reasonable definition of "innocent", Chad strikes me as a master manipulator, where Lori just seems psychotic/unhinged. I don't think he's a true believer. He is just somebody who discovered his own power of psychological persuasion and then found the perfect vessel/follower to act out his fantasies... and that's when things went all "Black Mirror" in this story.
 
I would like to see an investigation into the coroner and CD. Did they know each other from church or work? What was their, if any, relationship. JMO.

When my friends husband died in Kansas, a healthy man, the coroner was required by law to do an autopsy To make sure it was not suicide or homicide. Idaho should have a law as such too. Anyone dying young for no apparent reason is suspicious. Now not having an autopsy is suspicious to me. Moo

What I don’t like is that Coroners are elected. With no background in forensics or medical knowledge needed at all! I learned about this quite a while back in an entry forensics class. Cases like this, and all of the deaths in the wake of these two really show the ridiculousness of this practice in real life. JMO
 
My dad died of the widow maker (heart attack), my mom of stage four cancer, and my grandma from dementia. I was present for all their deaths (not for the heart attack itself but we pulled the plug and I sat with my mom while he flatlined). None of them foamed at the mouth. My dad’s friend who was with him when he had the heart attack and attempted CPR has never mentioned foam and it’s been thirteen years. My mom never mentioned it when her dad died in front of her from congestive heart failure.

Yeah, sadly I've been present for a few family members deaths, and never any foam.

I read about Stage 3 of natural death on that Body Farm link, and it stated that after 72hrs (IIRC) the mouth and nose can have fluids coming out, along with blood settling and blackening at lower points of the body.... Gross I know!

But nothing about foaming directly after death.... It does NOT seem natural, IMO!
 
Does anyone have any insights or thoughts on why the remains have not been officially identified yet? I’m not sure how long something like this generally takes so I’m curious if it’s due to forensic reasons or if it’s just not being officially publicly announced yet for some reason.
It just depends on autopsy, forensics, etc
Sometimes names are released within 24-48 hours and sometimes it is days, weeks, or even months, depending on what was found and the condition of what was found.
When Little Isabel Celis was found, LE was pretty sure it was her, but we were not informed for months after remains were found.
Of course, she had been missing for years so there was that, but JMO, LE knew it was her and still did not confirm.
Just never know.
 
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