Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #39

[itsmyworld]

i don't know how to quote from a closed thread but 100% you can not just call someone in jail. i have never been accused of a crime of national interest and i have no clue how the reporter "called" her but in jail there no random incoming phone calls allowed ever (outgoing phone calls on a general use payphone with no number to give out, caller I D says company name of whoever has the contract with that particular jail or prison or no number, like private caller, or the number is to the company not the jail, and that number tells you how to create an account so that you may be able to receive calls from that jail at any time). i have no clue how the interviews of persons in jail awaiting trial happen (referring to the cases with national attention) except they have to be negotiated through lawyers and the interview number is given to the accused and the recipient must be available in the correct hours (exceptions are made for no one except defense lawyers (occasionally), the D.A.s office, or the judge). if this person were in a mental hospital i would say yes someone can call you but in jail, no. It just isn't possible with the amount of inmates to the amount of officers. if anyone is communicating with someone in jail or prison the calls are coming from inside the jail.

 

[Michael0808]

I get you. That would be an interesting dynamic, if they were BS'ing each other. And yes, that's a relatively common American vernacular term, as is its expansion: bulls**ting

So basically what you're saying is they may have both willingly adopted this false narrative, knowing it's false, with the tacit agreement that neither of them would throw any rocks in their shared glass house? That whatever "goes in Cult Camp stays in Cult Camp"? And then basically that would mean that they're nothing more than eccentric criminals.

I'm not sure if that computes for me, but regardless, I sure hope the court and/or jury sees it that way and they get the maximum punishments allowed.

I was trying to avoid the full term in case it wasn’t allowed lol.
And kind of, I think it’s a bit more complicated than that. I do think Lori is Borderline Personality, I don’t know what I think he is yet except for a certain kind of evil. And I think they became complicit with each other to achieve the things they wanted. And I think they both thought that they were in control of the other and others. I still have a lot to look at. Jmo

ETA not necessarily an agreed upon complicity. If that makes sense. I do not believe they had some sort of what happens here stays here arrangement. I just think they were playing each other and each thought they weren’t being played. Each thought they were in control. I hope that makes sense. And both were willing to do whatever necessary to get what they wanted. Including to JJ and Tylee unfortunately.

 

[KonaHonu]

I've been curious about her upbringing, I know we can't sleuth but can you or anyone else point me to something privately?

You can sleuth all you want about Lori going back as far as you want. There is a lot to be found but most of it points to a fairly normal LDS upbringing. She attended seminary in high school, was a cheerleader and her parents graciously hosted the local hangout for her group of friends. She rarely dated IIRC but got married first shortly after she graduated to a guy one year ahead of her.

There is some information ou there about her parents that is easy to find. It suggests a lack of respect for authority but nothing like condoning murder.

 

[Drc40]

I've spent the day catching up on thread #38 and trying to piece together my own daily timeline from September 1 to December 1. Most of my information is from Gardiner's Most Excellent Timeline posted on page 1 of every thread. My goal is to try to narrow down when each of the deaths likely occurred and see if there are any hints in other observed behaviors. I have a few questions for the group:

1. How do we know MG visited Rexburg the weekend of September 20-23? In her interview she was not specific and only said it was over a weekend. The previous weekend seems more likely to me because CD, LV, and MG did a podcast that weekend.

2. Speaking of podcasts, can we infer anything from the dates? It seems to me like these are something that are recorded in advance then editted before being posted. I'm inclined to think that they actually were in the same room when recording them. I know it is easy technically to be all separate. But Lori does not seem to have the tech skills to do it that way.

3. Do we know how long TD was visiting her parents? She arrived on 10/4 but it has been said there was a big LDS conference that is televised that she would not have missed. She was not due back at work until 10/14 but we know she was back in Rexburg for the paintball incident on 10/9. I'm trying to narrow this down because I believe the burials took place either whie she was gone or after her death.

4. What actually happens during the spud harvest? Is it literally just time off from school to harvest potatoes? Or is it more like a harvest festival with events, parades, and so forth?

5. What evidence do we have that Lori was in California with Chad over Thanksgiving? I believe circumstantially she was but I'm wondering if we have any evidence. If Chad's kids knew about her by then, which is suggested by the comments about having them over for cookies and them knowing about the wedding then why wouldn't she take part in the family vacation?

I'm working on a theory that Tylee thought she was going to BYU-I for the fall semester. Move in day was 9/13 and classes started 9/16. So I think that would have put pressure on Lori to get rid of her just before that. BYU-I admissions is based on standardized tests, church endorsements, and seminary graduation. Do we know anything about whether Tylee graduated seminary or took any standardized tests?

Really good questions and an area I’d like to see discussed more going forward. I know lots of folks are catching up but much of it we’ve been over many times. Concentrating on these time periods might help develop better theories. @Tortoise put together a great crime timeline in the previous thread similar to the road you’re going down. It deserves more attention since it now appears the murders and burials took place in the fall.

I originally thought both murders had to take place at the same time because multiple scenes and multiple burials is more risky. However, I now think we have two murder scenes, one burial and burn(maybe) site at multiple times. That is extremely risky and the chances of leaving more evidence increases. Hopefully LE was able to take advantage.

With @Tortoise timeline and knowing everything we’ve learned to date it stands to reason both murders took place between approx 9/8 - 9/23’ish with at least one, maybe both, burials taking place 10/4-10/6 when Tammy was gone. A huge question mark is the possible time break between the murders and burial. If each didn’t happen simultaneously where did they keep these bodies? I know anything is possible but the risk factor of having multiple crime scenes at multiple times and storing bodies is huge.

I also don’t think Chadbo and Lolo could pull this off on their own. Since AC was involved at the storage unit he’s likely one accomplice but it’s still nagging at me that another person is involved here. That person could simply have been an unwitting UI. Maybe used for diversion or some mundane task they weren’t aware was contributing to the coverup. The other reason I think another is involved is the warrant. I know Nate said it was a combination of factors but the precision and speed they worked at indicates direct knowledge. An additional item that convinces me of another person is they immediately laid out a grid square but after the dog arrived ended up digging and presumably finding the remains outside the grid.

I’d love to hear your thoughts on the crime timeline and whatever our other super sleuths can add to it.

Cheers all...

 

[vislaw]

Alright, let's discuss the forensic work done at the scene and, specifically, the images of what appear to be human remains. Out of respect for members and for convenience, I have uploaded images with annotations on our server. WARNING: don't click the link if you find the topic unsettling. The images are not terribly graphic, but I do know some people are particularly sensitive. Here's the link. PASSWORD IS: visual

 

[gumchew]

I have contemplated for weeks that Lori had Borderline Personality Disorder. There are many symptoms that lead to this diagnosis.

One is a lack of identity. What this looks like for Lori is when she was married and happy with Charles, she took on the identity of a wife and mother that would fit with Charles’s personality. We have numerous people claiming that Lori was a great mother, including Kay. But, when she came across Chad’s books, her identity switched to his fantastic spiritual notions. Upon meeting, Chad fed into this with talk of her being a translated being, their prior marriages, her prior lives as revered figures in LDS theology.

This leads to another symptom of BPD, splitting. When Charles recognized her delusions, she split from him. No longer was she interested in being his wife. Done. Just like that. Charles tried valiantly to help, but Lori was already too far gone for him to bring back. Chad telling her that Charles was Nick Snieder only reinforced the splitting. While I believe it is very rare for someone with BPD to actually kill someone else, this is ultimately what Lori needed to have happen. Chad telling Lori that her children were also Zombies made splitting from them easier as well. Hence, I believe Lori was more directly responsible for their deaths. She seems to be a woman that takes action while Chad tells stories. It wouldn’t surprise me if Lori actually found a way to kill Tammy as well. Or, at least, pushed Chad into finally taking that step.

And, I believe Lori was then able to get Chad to help bury the kids, get married, etc.

Two people who are very toxic as a couple. And no psychiatric diagnosis excuses their actions. They knew right from wrong.

MOO

Yep. This is what tracks for me. Thank you for posting this. It sounds like you know what you're talking about.

I wonder who she'll become when Chad puts all or most of this on her in court?

 

[KonaHonu]

i don't know how to quote from a closed thread but 100% you can not just call someone in jail. i have never been accused of a crime of national interest and i have no clue how the reporter "called" her but in jail no random incoming phone calls (outgoing phone calls on a general use payphone with no number to give out, caller I D says company name of whoever has the contract with that particular jail or prison no number or the number is to the company not the jail). i have no clue how the interviews of persons in jail awaiting trial happen except its negotiated through lawyers and the interview number is given to the accused and the recipient is available in the correct hours (exceptions are made for no one except defense lawyers (occasionally), the D.A.s office, or the judge. if this person were in a mental hospital i would say yes someone can call you but in jail, no. It just isn't possible with the amount of inmates to the amount of officers. if anyone is communicating with either one the calls are coming from inside the jail.

Lori and Chad are a special case. This case has international attention. Her lawyer is 5 hours away and the state AG has taken over prosecution and is also 5 hours away. We also have Covid restrictions in place. It would not be surprising at all to learn that special arrangements have been made for them and possibly other prisoners to receive calls. It might even be necessary to preserve their constitutional rights so they don't get off later at trial because their rights were violated because consultation with counsel was hindered.

I'm not saying L&C are or should be getting special priviledges. I'm saying the entire jail(s) are likely having to change their policies right now. Actually, we already know this is true becausse they are preventing attorneys from meeting face-to-face with clients. They must talk over a jail-monitored phone line and ask that the call not be recorded. Since the monitoring system is designed to eavesdrop on prisoners to gather evidence, that seems like a HUGE violation to me to suddenly trust the police and the private company controlling the technology to act differently than they have been trained decades to do.

Times are different right now and special procedures are in place everywhere as we al know.

 

[Michael0808]

You can sleuth all you want about Lori going back as far as you want. There is a lot to be found but most of it points to a fairly normal LDS upbringing. She attended seminary in high school, was a cheerleader and her parents graciously hosted the local hangout for her group of friends. She rarely dated IIRC but got married first shortly after she graduated to a guy one year ahead of her.

There is some information ou there about her parents that is easy to find. It suggests a lack of respect for authority but nothing like condoning murder.

My how people can change.

 

[PingTheRouter]

Alright, let's discuss the forensic work done at the scene and, specifically, the images of what appear to be human remains. Out of respect for members and for convenience, I have uploaded images with annotations on our server. WARNING: don't click the link if you find the topic unsettling. The images are not terribly graphic, but I do know some people are particularly sensitive. Here's the link. PASSWORD IS: visual

had a look, those photos are the best quality iv seen so far from those views, the rest look to have either been compressed or "nerfed" the original one i had run through some smoothing and sharpening and contrast adjustments but again they were already degraded it only helped a little

i had a look at your conclusion, its possible but i think the information we'd need to know is how long have they been burred or dead, if it is 9 months, very possible that the orange bag contains remains bones and such

but did you see a skull at all? i saw what might have been ribs in the photos i reviewed but again ugh its so hard to do this with such few reference photos

either way i appreciate the job you've done if you don't mind if i copy the photos and run them through some tools and have a look, if you can upload the raws to your server that would be helpful? you can pm me if you'd like to keep it off these forum posts

 

[Cindizzi]

With the intent that this not be "useful" to anyone ....

"Ricinus communis, the castor bean or castor oil plant, is a species of perennial flowering plant in the spurge family, Euphorbiaceae. It is the sole species in the monotypic genus, Ricinus, and subtribe, Ricininae."

One of the many things I learned watching the Walter White saga was that castor beans can kill ya.
Things You Should Know About Ricin Before Watching the "Breaking Bad" Finale

 

[Vegasgrl]

Sorry if I missed this, is there a gag order in place? Can Lori give an interview if she wants to? Can she do this during a visit or by phone?
And, if she doesn't beg the court to allow her to attend the funeral(s), I would question her representation.

 

[Vegasgrl]

One of the many things I learned watching the Walter White saga was that castor beans can kill ya.
Things You Should Know About Ricin Before Watching the "Breaking Bad" Finale

Hah, just watched the last season AND El Camino tonight (again)

 

[gumchew]

Alright, let's discuss the forensic work done at the scene and, specifically, the images of what appear to be human remains. Out of respect for members and for convenience, I have uploaded images with annotations on our server. WARNING: don't click the link if you find the topic unsettling. The images are not terribly graphic, but I do know some people are particularly sensitive. Here's the link. PASSWORD IS: visual

This is truly amazing. Thank you for the analysis and very clear explanation!

 

[vislaw]

had a look, those photos are the best quality iv seen so far from those views, the rest look to have either been compressed or "nerfed" the original one i had run through some smoothing and sharpening and contrast adjustments but again they were already degraded it only helped a little

i had a look at your conclusion, its possible but i think the information we'd need to know is how long have they been burred or dead, if it is 9 months, very possible that the orange bag contains remains bones and such

but did you see a skull at all? i saw what might have been ribs in the photos i reviewed but again ugh its so hard to do this with such few reference photos

either way i appreciate the job you've done if you don't mind if i copy the photos and run them through some tools and have a look, if you can upload the raws to your server that would be helpful? you can pm me if you'd like to keep it off these forum posts

Feel free to use anything you wish. I'll add a download link with the original photos (and some others that aren't used but were of interest). Nothing that convinces me it is a skull yet. We know that after the scanning was done they erected two pop-up tents with side panels for privacy and worked in the excavated area. It is possible that some of the body remains embedded in the substrate and was removed under cover. I do see a couple objects that may be sticking out of the dirt but, honestly, I'm thinking those are remains on the orange fabric. Still, it does seem strange that they would go to the trouble of erecting the tents after scanning the area unless there was significant excavation remaining to be done. I'm going to get a few Z's but will upload the pics for you and anyone else interested on the discussion page tomorrow morning. Ciao.

 

[skoogmagoo]

Is there more than one photo? I've only seen the one where he's pretending to play the ukelele and she's hula dancing.

I think there's merit to what you're saying. I remain convinced that she's crazy/homicidal and he's just ... I don't know. Morally bankrupt, delusional, and in way over his head. But that doesn't mean he's not scared s**tless of her. In a sense she has nothing to lose; she's already lost her mind and dispensed with her kids and her husband. There is no line she won't cross or hasn't crossed. If Chad messed with her "reality", she could have ruined him completely, before the cops got wise to everything, either by exposing all of them, or by having Alex kill him.

I don't think she has that leverage now, so it will be really interesting to watch what position their defense teams take come July 1st!

There is a picture of them drinking champagne ( I presume) at their wedding and Chad can't even look at her. And when the press starts asking them questions in Hawaii, she looks cocky and without a care in the world and he just looks down. He looks embarrassed and depressed.

 

[KonaHonu]

Snipped respectfully for focus.

You can't go to BYU if you're under 18? Wow.....

It looks like there's a community college in Rexburg, though.

I've actually been looking into BYU-I's admissions standards. I've found nothing restricting admission to over 18. In fact, you can be admitted and take classes as a high school student apparently. If there is a rule against admission before age 18, please post a link!

 

[Michael0808]

Alright, let's discuss the forensic work done at the scene and, specifically, the images of what appear to be human remains. Out of respect for members and for convenience, I have uploaded images with annotations on our server. WARNING: don't click the link if you find the topic unsettling. The images are not terribly graphic, but I do know some people are particularly sensitive. Here's the link. PASSWORD IS: visual

A lot of us believed that this was what we were seeing. I just wanted to say thank you for being a skeptic, for doing all of this work for us, and bringing us closer to really being able to look at evidence to inform our opinions.
This is gruesome. But this crime is gruesome. Thank you.

 

[squareandrabbet]

By the looks of it, the written transcript is way easier for me to analyze than the video. MP has, like, 5 story starters that she doesn't follow through with, and never put her pinky toe into the zombie question.
She also says, curiously, "I knew the threats that Lori had been getting...." She doesn't say "I knew that Lori had been getting threats." So what did the threats say, exactly? She evidently knows...

I thought the threats were better described as ‘according to Lori’. I think Melani also implies or flat out says somewhere that these (nonexistent) threats were from Kay.

I wondered if she thought Kay may have been communicating with the school or other parents, and was checking to see if JJ's name was being mentioned.

my guess would be that JJ started to say things that she wasn’t certain about, and wanted to figure out if that conversation had made its way into his old classroom? ‘Well, now that they’re gone, I can tell you...’!

 

[gumchew]

I was trying to avoid the full term in case it wasn’t allowed lol.
And kind of, I think it’s a bit more complicated than that. I do think Lori is Borderline Personality, I don’t know what I think he is yet except for a certain kind of evil. And I think they became complicit with each other to achieve the things they wanted. And I think they both thought that they were in control of the other and others. I still have a lot to look at. Jmo

ETA not necessarily an agreed upon complicity. If that makes sense. I do not believe they had some sort of what happens here stays here arrangement. I just think they were playing each other and each thought they weren’t being played. Each thought they were in control. I hope that makes sense. And both were willing to do whatever necessary to get what they wanted. Including to JJ and Tylee unfortunately.

Ah yes -- I get what you mean. Each though they had the upper hand and were manipulating the other! That's messier than I would like, but I suppose what Anonymom brought up is relevant here... even if LVD has BPD, she still knew right from wrong. They both did/do. Regardless of which of them hatched the idea(s), and irrespective of their cult-y club rules, or who was manipulating whom, they knew they were committing heinous criminal acts.

 

[The First Article]

do know some people are particularly sensitive. Here's the link. PASSWORD IS: visual

I am both grateful to learn something new and horrified.