Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #123

[mimimarge]

I agree with this 100%. I've always believed that escape through the back way toward the cemetery was easily the most logical. I did not take the short drive to the cemetery, which I now regret. However, I know I have a tendency to push matters. I was worried if I got over there I'd probably be tempted to traipse down toward the bodies location. It would have been 50/50.

I don't think it requires mental images of the cemetery area to grasp the fundamental basics: Bridge Guy knows that this is going to take a while. At absolute minimum he has to be prepared for an hour. Now ask yourself how often cars are parked inside a cemetery for a full hour or more? And especially when it is a small roadside cemetery with locals potentially driving past in either direction. Parking a car there can only be attributed to a cemetery visit. There isn't excuse to visit an adjacent home or business, etc. If a car is sitting there for several hours in mid afternoon yet nobody ever sees someone sitting alongside a headstone, that is great potential to be stand out and be remembered...quickly mentioned to law enforcement.

Bridge Guy knows he can't avoid some risks. Parking at the cemetery would have been a silly risk.

Contrast to parking near the abandoned building. There are several things going on there, from the nearby State Road 25 to the Anderson buildings to Freedom Bridge area to the abandoned building itself. The presence of a vehicle can be rationalized in many ways, to the point it won't stand out.

However, the associated risks are the longer walk back to that area after the murders, and the presence of surveillance cameras on the Andersons buildings not far from the abandoned building. Bridge Guy had to weigh several aspects prior to this crime. Gray Hughes did a video in late October 2019 in which he showed the locations of two cameras on those buildings. I left on my trip a week prior to that video being posted. But I was already curious about the same thing, to the point I drove over there and looked at the specific nearby building. It was smack across from the abandoned building area but not tight to County Road 300. Maybe 50-75 yards removed.

If Bridge Guy did park in that area I think there's a good chance they have faraway video from that camera. It may be the reason that Doug Carter said they have a good idea of the beginning and the end, but not the middle.

I have always been amazed that none of the interviewers ever bother to ask Carter or Leazenby or Ives if law enforcement has video/pictures of Bridge Guy from a source other than Libby's phone. If that question has been posed, it has not been posed often enough. It should be a regular situation of make them respond again.

Very interesting. The ID show "See No Evil" traces people/cars from one camera to the next to reveal where someone was going or coming from.

 

[mimimarge]

I agree with this 100%. I've always believed that escape through the back way toward the cemetery was easily the most logical. I did not take the short drive to the cemetery, which I now regret. However, I know I have a tendency to push matters. I was worried if I got over there I'd probably be tempted to traipse down toward the bodies location. It would have been 50/50.

I don't think it requires mental images of the cemetery area to grasp the fundamental basics: Bridge Guy knows that this is going to take a while. At absolute minimum he has to be prepared for an hour. Now ask yourself how often cars are parked inside a cemetery for a full hour or more? And especially when it is a small roadside cemetery with locals potentially driving past in either direction. Parking a car there can only be attributed to a cemetery visit. There isn't excuse to visit an adjacent home or business, etc. If a car is sitting there for several hours in mid afternoon yet nobody ever sees someone sitting alongside a headstone, that is great potential to be stand out and be remembered...quickly mentioned to law enforcement.

Bridge Guy knows he can't avoid some risks. Parking at the cemetery would have been a silly risk.

Contrast to parking near the abandoned building. There are several things going on there, from the nearby State Road 25 to the Anderson buildings to Freedom Bridge area to the abandoned building itself. The presence of a vehicle can be rationalized in many ways, to the point it won't stand out.

However, the associated risks are the longer walk back to that area after the murders, and the presence of surveillance cameras on the Andersons buildings not far from the abandoned building. Bridge Guy had to weigh several aspects prior to this crime. Gray Hughes did a video in late October 2019 in which he showed the locations of two cameras on those buildings. I left on my trip a week prior to that video being posted. But I was already curious about the same thing, to the point I drove over there and looked at the specific nearby building. It was smack across from the abandoned building area but not tight to County Road 300. Maybe 50-75 yards removed.

If Bridge Guy did park in that area I think there's a good chance they have faraway video from that camera. It may be the reason that Doug Carter said they have a good idea of the beginning and the end, but not the middle.

I have always been amazed that none of the interviewers ever bother to ask Carter or Leazenby or Ives if law enforcement has video/pictures of Bridge Guy from a source other than Libby's phone. If that question has been posed, it has not been posed often enough. It should be a regular situation of make them respond again.

Very interesting. The ID show "See No Evil" traces people/cars from one camera to the next to reveal where someone was going or coming from.

 

[Kell1]

What do you mean "in these type of cases"?

Sorry but that would drive me nuts. In my realm it would properly drive everyone nuts. You are overplaying the result to absurd degree. It is a classic example of what I have always emphasized, that law enforcement has zero training in probability.

He didn't go out there that day to kill two teenage girls from Delphi. The victims happened to be two teenaged girls from Delphi.

Once a fixation from the result is removed, then clarity floods in from all directions. Delphi just happens to be the closest small city to that isolated bridge trail adjacent to the greatest getaway road of all time. Therefore Delphi became the plurality favorite as home city of the victim(s). But only the plurality. If Abby and Libby had skipped the visit then the victim could have been Cheyenne, an adult from Monticello.

And what are your qualifications ? Id love to hear your theory on the case

What is "Your realm" ?

"These cases" are the abduction classified as the movement of a victim (against their knowledge, or against their will) a distance greater than a few feet (varies depending on state)

And murder which is the intentional taking of a life

Of children which are under the age of 18

So taken together, you have the abduction murders of children , crimes against children were my area of study, that's what "these cases" are.

As a matter of fact, there are clearinghouses, professional organizations, non profits, and an entire section of the criminal justice system dedicated to just that.

But please go on with your "probability" and let all of us in LE know how much smarter than us you are

And while youre at it you might as well solve the case, the reward money is pretty handsome

Ill stick with experience, and those whove seen literally hundreds, of these cases,

 

[Kell1]

I don’t know the reason they were killed. It might be sexual, or purely “utilitarian”, for the lack of any usable term. If there were any sexual undertones, then, he is a sexual sadist. And I am 50/50 on it.

If the true reason was different (removing someone who knew too much, or whom he, for whatever reason, saw as a threat), then he is cold, devious, planning, but might be very different from any criminals mentioned here. And in this case, he is not mentally ill, merely suspicious, devoid of attachments and knows how to use people for his benefits. This person can never be caught because he is so “normal”. Deep inside, he might probably still hate the victims because in his eyes, they “deserved”. If he used anyone, or lives with someone who could guess, he manipulates these people into silence, and probably, uses logic (emotions are unreliable).
And it is here when he can use arguments that are very smart.


JMO. I am not making “psychological portraits” at all, merely trying to imagine different POIs, even historical figures, and thinking of how it would work. Type 1 could still be vulnerable and have weak links, some attachments, type 2, none, although he “needs” all of it, a GF, or family, or kids, to fit in.

ETA: type 1 was probably alone, type 2 could have used someone, maybe some type 1 loser.

"sadism" is the prolonged physical or emotional torture of a victim to gain sexual arousal and or gratification.

Unless theres evidence of that, you cant say whether or not the individual responsible was indeed a "sadist"

In fact Sadistic types are the MOST likely to abduct and hold a victim somewhere in order to subject them what they wish to do . They are also the most likely to kill their victims, and may have incorporated that into the sexual aspect of the murder itself .

They are more likely to use ruse to entice a victim into their control

they are most likely to bind their victims

And of all the Child killer types , they are the most likely to reoffend.

They are most likely to become Serial offenders as well

However , they are also the most rare type of child killer (thankfully) almost exceedingly so

So unless there's some evidence that he took the time to subject these girls to some form of "torture" then we cant say whether or not this is a "sadist"

The problem with this case, is simply we don't know

We don't know anything more than 2 girls went into that park, they were found dead, and on Libby's phone there was a video of a man walking toward them , and an audio recording that appears to say "down the hill"

But literally everything beyond that is pure speculation.

Anyones opinion on this could be right , because we don't know

Im not downing anyones opinion on this case, im only relaying what is most common , things ive seen, and some statistical info, because thats all I can do

Thats it

 

[Rossymom]

I am always surprised at how many people (regardless of age) don't understand the how the data in their phone is stored in the cloud.

Amateur opinion and speculation

Correct. He could have stomped on her phone. My phone is paired to my iPad. So any email, Snapchat, text, pictures, videos, HangOut conversations, and notes I put in my phone....they all appear on my iPad. I sometimes leave my phone at the apartment on the base where my husband lives (accidentally). It’s in another state. He cracks up because it dings and makes noises constantly.
I have never read anything that said Libby had an iPad at home. My comment just shows how the Cloud is used in my situation.

 

[Kell1]

I can see this is turning into a 2 sided discussion, it almost always does for some reason.

Once you get into the "I have an opinion and I dont like yours " , or the "better than you " stuff the thread turns into a cesspool.

In order to preserve the thread , i'm going to make this the last comment on this horrible case.

All great theories keep on pursuing ideas

There's great discussion here, and I applaud everyone for keeping this case in the public eye, hopefully soon, it'll come to a conclusion, or something will change that will help the case and these 2 girls will see justice

Hopefully my input helped, i can provide a bunch of references, for anyone interested in Crimes against children, or protecting kids, I'm always open for discussion via PM

Thanks

 

[sunshineray]

I agree.

Furthermore, I believe that this killer 'scouted' other public and private (but with public access, as in this case), areas, before choosing that one.

I keep emphasizing I think the construction of the highway had a huge impact on this case.

Figured I would jump in here with a comment.

JMO

Do you think he's a local from right in Delphi or he's from somewhere else in Indiana?

 

[Falling Down]

Do you think he's a local from right in Delphi or he's from somewhere else in Indiana?

I think he lives close enough that he was 'home for dinner' that evening, so to speak.

Close enough that no one would be the wiser that he was gone that day, and in fact could very well have a family and a 'normal' life.

When LE say "local" or "local to the area", that could mean any number of things in my mind. That, and they tend to leave things kind of open-ended, anyway, with some of their language. I'd imagine this is common in unsolved murder investigations.

That said, he knows the area enough to get into and out of there, without people noticing anything out-of-the-ordinary about him and his presence, there. If I could hazard a guess, a surrounding county to Carroll, or maybe somewhat further afield.

He had to have the presence of mind to do some research before the murders, and had to know Andersons would not be operating that day. So I think he's that familiar and comfortable with the area that he's been there. before. I also believe the noted when the highway was opened in 2014.

Also, he lives close enough that he was able to visit the area of the MHB to do recon of it, so he wasn't spending too much time and resources doing so.

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

Do you think he's a local from right in Delphi or he's from somewhere else in Indiana?

I’m just curious, do you recall if Carter actually referred to the suspect as “living in Delphi”? Below he’s indeed linked to that actual remark but what Sgt Riley is quoted as saying makes far more sense IMO.

The “Delphi area” isn’t an exact distance but it definitely broadens the possibilities considering the population of Delphi is only 3000, probably about half of whom are children and of the adults half are female. I have visions of enthusiastic amateur crime-solvers congregating on the small town eyeing, questioning and snapping photos of male possibilities walking down the street or inside of public buildings and I do hope that hasn’t happened. The public attention that’s attracted to a community following a high profile crime or event isn’t always positive. Through my own experience, it can also create a sort of inward, protective mindset amongst locals which could possibly pose an obstacle. It’s easy for Carter to make that comment, if he did, as he doesn’t work or live there.... just my thoughts...

BBM

Proximity of suspect: At the same April 2019 press conference, Doug Carter, superintendent of the Indiana State Police, said new information leads investigators to believe that the killer is from Delphi, and they believe he either still lives or works in Delphi, or frequently visits the area.

"We have a strong suspicion that the person is either from the area, has visited there before or has lived in the Delphi area for a number of years," said Sgt. Kim Riley of the State Police, who has served as a spokesman in the investigation.”
Delphi killings: What we know about killings of Abby and Libby

 

[ogls]

I have to reach I think there is a way to make BG "talk". I don't know how yet, but I'm going to learn a little. I know LE has more audio unreleased. We have few words and bad picture.

Has anyone tried breaking down the audio? I think there are good pronunciations. Maybe able to break them down use them to form other words?

I think the reading script in Mission Impossible, is true for voice imprinting/reproduction. Companies pay people to read various paragraphs, I think they do something with the words/maybe recreate?

Instead of Guys, down the hill, expand on them and mix them up to form other sounding words and make this jagoff "speak".

 

[Falling Down]

"sadism" is the prolonged physical or emotional torture of a victim to gain sexual arousal and or gratification.

Unless theres evidence of that, you cant say whether or not the individual responsible was indeed a "sadist"

In fact Sadistic types are the MOST likely to abduct and hold a victim somewhere in order to subject them what they wish to do . They are also the most likely to kill their victims, and may have incorporated that into the sexual aspect of the murder itself .

They are more likely to use ruse to entice a victim into their control

they are most likely to bind their victims

And of all the Child killer types , they are the most likely to reoffend.

They are most likely to become Serial offenders as well

However , they are also the most rare type of child killer (thankfully) almost exceedingly so

So unless there's some evidence that he took the time to subject these girls to some form of "torture" then we cant say whether or not this is a "sadist"

The problem with this case, is simply we don't know

We don't know anything more than 2 girls went into that park, they were found dead, and on Libby's phone there was a video of a man walking toward them , and an audio recording that appears to say "down the hill"

But literally everything beyond that is pure speculation.

Anyones opinion on this could be right , because we don't know

Im not downing anyones opinion on this case, im only relaying what is most common , things ive seen, and some statistical info, because thats all I can do

Thats it

I'll throw my $.02 in here, FWIW.

Some people following this have their own fantasies about what happened, purely fantastical and tabloid-like fixations on what they think happened. Not sure how long you've been following, but here are some fantastical scenarios which have been thrown about, and quite frankly I've been surprised they were allowed here. There is no indication any of the following happened:

1. They were put into a vehicle on the driveway, driven away, tortured, raped, etc., then brought back at zero dark thirty on to RL's property and carefully placed there, my guess the distance from C.R. 300 to the CS is like 1,000 feet or more. This is one of the craziest and most outlandish theories.

2. One of RL's outbuildings were used for the torture, rape, and murders of the girls, Then they were placed at the CS. Which, of course, would have required BG to be there doing all of that, for a considerable length of time, then leave in the dark of evening or night.

3. The girls died at separate times, which may explain more why 1 and 2 are plausible.

4. Let your mind run wild...

I believe and have believed since days after the murders it is so cut-and-dry it would make a lot of heads spin, but it explains partly, at least, how he was able to slip out of there. It happened so quickly, not much really happened beyond the murders.

I believe they were abducted, murdered, and he slipped away within about a 25 minute or so time span.

My unscientific generic profile of BG says that he gets off on the aftermath, attention, sensationalism, etc., of his deeds.

JMO

 

[St. Anthony2017]

I'll throw my $.02 in here, FWIW.

Some people following this have their own fantasies about what happened, purely fantastical and tabloid-like fixations on what they think happened. Not sure how long you've been following, but here are some fantastical scenarios which have been thrown about, and quite frankly I've been surprised they were allowed here. There is no indication any of the following happened:

1. They were put into a vehicle on the driveway, driven away, tortured, raped, etc., then brought back at zero dark thirty on to RL's property and carefully placed there, my guess the distance from C.R. 300 to the CS is like 1,000 feet or more. This is one of the craziest and most outlandish theories.

2. One of RL's outbuildings were used for the torture, rape, and murders of the girls, Then they were placed at the CS. Which, of course, would have required BG to be there doing all of that, for a considerable length of time, then leave in the dark of evening or night.

3. The girls died at separate times, which may explain more why 1 and 2 are plausible.

4. Let your mind run wild...

I believe and have believed since days after the murders it is so cut-and-dry it would make a lot of heads spin, but it explains partly, at least, how he was able to slip out of there. It happened so quickly, not much really happened beyond the murders.

I believe they were abducted, murdered, and he slipped away within about a 25 minute or so time span.

My unscientific generic profile of BG says that he gets off on the aftermath, attention, sensationalism, etc., of his deeds.

JMO

And he apparently has a hatred for girls or young women imo. I agree that he likes the aftermath. It’s his secret life and he probably has photos to relive what he did. I also think he has been in contact with LE through a male reporter who covered the story and maybe ordered Carter to say some of what he did about the Shack reference and threatened to kill again if he didn’t. Ok did my mind run wild enough? Just thinking outside the box.

 

[Blue Amethyst]

I can see this is turning into a 2 sided discussion, it almost always does for some reason.

Once you get into the "I have an opinion and I dont like yours " , or the "better than you " stuff the thread turns into a cesspool.

In order to preserve the thread , i'm going to make this the last comment on this horrible case.

All great theories keep on pursuing ideas

There's great discussion here, and I applaud everyone for keeping this case in the public eye, hopefully soon, it'll come to a conclusion, or something will change that will help the case and these 2 girls will see justice

Hopefully my input helped, i can provide a bunch of references, for anyone interested in Crimes against children, or protecting kids, I'm always open for discussion via PM

Thanks

Please don’t leave. Your opinion is valuable and it is nice to have some new input into the case.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

And he apparently has a hatred for girls or young women imo. I agree that he likes the aftermath. It’s his secret life and he probably has photos to relive what he did. I also think he has been in contact with LE through a male reporter who covered the story and maybe ordered Carter to say some of what he did about the Shack reference and threatened to kill again if he didn’t. Ok did my mind run wild enough? Just thinking outside the box.

bbm
Why the Shack reference?

 

[Ozoner]

I believe they were abducted, murdered, and he slipped away within about a 25 minute or so time span.

My unscientific generic profile of BG says that he gets off on the aftermath, attention, sensationalism, etc., of his deeds.

JMO

Snipped

I agree that it was over quickly. I'm not even sure BG would have needed 25 minutes. I think it could have been more like 5 to 10 minutes from the time he got the girls to the kill site.

 

[Michigan]

Please don’t leave. Your opinion is valuable and it is nice to have some new input into the case.

I agree. @Kell1 i have enjoyed your input. I hope you will keep sleuthing this case with us.

 

[Yemelyan]

I can see this is turning into a 2 sided discussion, it almost always does for some reason.

Once you get into the "I have an opinion and I dont like yours " , or the "better than you " stuff the thread turns into a cesspool.

In order to preserve the thread , i'm going to make this the last comment on this horrible case.

All great theories keep on pursuing ideas

There's great discussion here, and I applaud everyone for keeping this case in the public eye, hopefully soon, it'll come to a conclusion, or something will change that will help the case and these 2 girls will see justice

Hopefully my input helped, i can provide a bunch of references, for anyone interested in Crimes against children, or protecting kids, I'm always open for discussion via PM

Thanks

@Kell1 Wish you wouldn't go, your input cuts straight through some of the nonsense that infects this thread. But I understand why you'd want to.

 

[somequestions]

I agree with this 100%. I've always believed that escape through the back way toward the cemetery was easily the most logical. I did not take the short drive to the cemetery, which I now regret. However, I know I have a tendency to push matters. I was worried if I got over there I'd probably be tempted to traipse down toward the bodies location. It would have been 50/50.

I don't think it requires mental images of the cemetery area to grasp the fundamental basics: Bridge Guy knows that this is going to take a while. At absolute minimum he has to be prepared for an hour. Now ask yourself how often cars are parked inside a cemetery for a full hour or more? And especially when it is a small roadside cemetery with locals potentially driving past in either direction. Parking a car there can only be attributed to a cemetery visit. There isn't excuse to visit an adjacent home or business, etc. If a car is sitting there for several hours in mid afternoon yet nobody ever sees someone sitting alongside a headstone, that is great potential to be stand out and be remembered...quickly mentioned to law enforcement.

Bridge Guy knows he can't avoid some risks. Parking at the cemetery would have been a silly risk.

Contrast to parking near the abandoned building. There are several things going on there, from the nearby State Road 25 to the Anderson buildings to Freedom Bridge area to the abandoned building itself. The presence of a vehicle can be rationalized in many ways, to the point it won't stand out.

However, the associated risks are the longer walk back to that area after the murders, and the presence of surveillance cameras on the Andersons buildings not far from the abandoned building. Bridge Guy had to weigh several aspects prior to this crime. Gray Hughes did a video in late October 2019 in which he showed the locations of two cameras on those buildings. I left on my trip a week prior to that video being posted. But I was already curious about the same thing, to the point I drove over there and looked at the specific nearby building. It was smack across from the abandoned building area but not tight to County Road 300. Maybe 50-75 yards removed.

If Bridge Guy did park in that area I think there's a good chance they have faraway video from that camera. It may be the reason that Doug Carter said they have a good idea of the beginning and the end, but not the middle.

I have always been amazed that none of the interviewers ever bother to ask Carter or Leazenby or Ives if law enforcement has video/pictures of Bridge Guy from a source other than Libby's phone. If that question has been posed, it has not been posed often enough. It should be a regular situation of make them respond again.

I think everything about this case is 50/50 until more information is released to the public because we do not know what happened, when it happened, how it happened, or who did it.

There are a lot of little clues from the April 2019 press conference. For example, when Supt. Carter said that they way the girls were left is not what they are experiencing today, what did that mean? I wondered, as I am sure others did, "How were they left?"

Does this killer actually hunt for 2 victims or was that just a coincidence because Abby and Libby were together?

There are a lot of questions with no answers.

In many cases I agree with the profile released by LE, but I think it could be how we perceive this killer that could be throwing everyone off in this case. If the killer ends up being between 18-40 and lived in the Delphi area when the crime happened, I would be surprised because of how much time has already passed in this investigation.

It just feels like, because of statements from LE, that this killer has some type of goal in mind and that he is not impulsive. But feelings do not solve cases when you have possible fingerprints and DNA evidence. It just feels like there is something strange about this case that makes it different.

 

[JDough]

Please don’t leave. Your opinion is valuable and it is nice to have some new input into the case.

I second that request, @Kell1. I have become very appreciative of your posts- I watch for them (even when I'm not certain I agree sometimes )! Your experience and expertise are invaluable. Your patience in answering our questions in a manner that is both easy to understand and thought-provoking has definitely caused me to reevaluate my theories a time or two. You have contributed to breathing new life and hope into the thread. Please know that I am grateful. I hope you'll stick around!

 

[somequestions]

I recently watched a video from back when the Evansdale, Iowa case of Lyric Cook and Elizabeth Collins first happened in July 2012. In it, they stated that out of all the child abductions that take place in the United States in a given year, only about 100 are committed by strangers. The rest are abducted by people they know.

I thought that statistic was interesting because what are the chances in a small town like Delphi, Indiana of two children being abducted at the same time?