Lies point us to the truth

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I just wanted to make sure I wasn’t missing anything here.

Rain on my Parade,
That's good to hear. If I was to author a JonBenet Who Did It, the above would go in along with all the Ramsey oops moments when their version of events does not match the real world.

JR was quite active early on fabricating scenarios then quietly dropping them, then it seems as if Patsy took over and JR stepped back?

Burke Ramsey's Christmas gift: a nice shiny bike has vanished into the ether anyone know why? Patsy is on record as purchasing :

dailycamera.com, 1997, excerpt
As usual, JonBenét was trying to make sure everybody was having fun. She stayed close to her brother, Burke, who was 9-years-old at the time.

Christmas day was warm and sunny for the most part, and JonBenét and her brother each received new bicycles that their mother picked out from University Bicycles downtown.

Then there is the Chair and Suitcase the latter which JR claims responsibility for its arrival in the basement.

This was the only example where I have seen John stating "hey we employ a housekeeper to clean up after us, but I like to help out too?"

Consider the Partially Opened Gifts which JR is on record saying Patsy knows nothing about them!

Then later Patsy says, "Hey guys I opened them as I must have forgot who was getting what?"

Duh.


Their attorney must have told them you can say what you want outside court, but in court you are under oath, so just deny and forget stuff ...

In terms of forensic deposits Patsy seems to outscore the others. With John and Burke about equal with a deposit each.

JR, it seems, was very forensically aware. Patsy appears not to have cared less, and apart from his touch-dna Burke is nearly invisible.

I wonder if we will ever see the therapists reports. Since Burke and JonBenet were both in therapy.

The parents probably ignored medical advice and paid the price with JonBenet's death, they must have thought they were above and immune from life's problems?

If the case is BDI, how will this play out for BR's state of mind once JR leaves us, he is getting on you know?

BR will be adrift in a world that will want exclusive interviews, will he take his father's place in JonBenet Who Did It documentaries?

Could he slip up, live on TV, there is obviously more to come ...

.
 
Sorry if this has been covered lots or sounds ridiculously far fetched...

The references to the Stines loyalty and their odd behaviour including impersonating the police officer etc..

How close were Doug Stine and Burke? Do we know if they ever had sleepovers?
How possible would it be that Doug went back with the Ramseys that night for a sleepover and they both ended up being involved in JBR's murder?

The Ramsey's then sent Doug home on the bicycle.
 
Sorry if this has been covered lots or sounds ridiculously far fetched...

The references to the Stines loyalty and their odd behaviour including impersonating the police officer etc..

How close were Doug Stine and Burke? Do we know if they ever had sleepovers?
How possible would it be that Doug went back with the Ramseys that night for a sleepover and they both ended up being involved in JBR's murder?

The Ramsey's then sent Doug home on the bicycle.

ReturnofSaturn,

Burke and Doug Stine have remained buddies and are in regular close contact.

Susan Stine reported an overheard conversation between Burke and Doug, where Burke describes details surrounding the death of JonBenet.

Yes Burke had sleepovers, on many occasions, JonBenet it appears had none.

A former member BlueCrab suggested that Doug Stine returned with the Ramsey's to their house for an overnight stay, was caught up in the death of JonBenet and returned home early morning on Patsy's bike?

In this case just about anything is possible, did a bike play a part, JR says he sold Patsy's bike at a later date.

Also Burke was given a bike as a Christmas gift by Patsy, as was JonBenet, Burke's bike has vanished, although this might simply be due to postmortem mayhem, i.e. who cares about bikes when your daughter is dead?

The thing about the bikes is: are they a dead end, or did one of them play a role in allowing someone early morning transport out of the hellhole?

Here are some snippets of information, see what you think:

6/23/1998 BPD John Interview, Excerpt
6 LOU SMIT: Okay. Did you go to the
7 Barnhills
8 to pick up a bike?
9 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, Christmas Eve. We'd
10 given JonBenet a bike; we got Patsy a bike. We
11 were giving Burke a bike but not that year.
12 Anyway, there was a bike that we put in their
13 basement, and I gone over after the kids went to
14 bed to get it to put it under the tree. And Joe
15 went down to the garage and went down to get it
16 and brought it up. I offered to go get it and he
17 said no, he'd go get it himself. I don't know
18 where it specifically was, whether it was actually
19 in his garage or his basement.
20 LOU SMIT: You know, I've looked at a lot
21 of pictures in regards to this particular case and
22 I can't remember seeing any bikes. What happened
23 to the bikes?
24 JOHN RAMSEY: Well, they were in the garage,
25 I guess. JonBenet rode her bike for a moment
0065
1 outside before we went to the White's; just round
2 the patio. I'm sure that went back in the garage.
3 Patsy's bike, I don't know, it could have gone in
4 the garage. I don't remember.
5 LOU SMIT: Have you seen it since, Patsy's
6 bike?
7 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. We have it.
8 LOU SMIT: (INAUDIBLE) took it?
9 JOHN RAMSEY: No. We gave, Jonbenet's bike
10 we gave away. Patsy's bike we haven't (INAUDIBLE).
So That's two bikes, one for Patsy, one for JonBenet.

6/23/1998 BPD John Later in Interview same day, Excerpt
13 LOU SMIT: Do you remember kind of what
14 the kids got? What she got?
15 JOHN RAMSEY: Well JonBenet got a bike.
16 I think Burke got a bike too. It seems like we had
17 three bikes there. JonBenet, I think she got a
18 little doll that was one of these look-a-like
19 dolls that was supposed to look like her. I
20 remember her looking at it and saying, this
21 doesn't look like me.
22 LOU SMIT: Was that made specially in
23 a certain spot?
24 JOHN RAMSEY: Supposedly, I guess. Yeah.
25 That's a good question. Patsy would know.
Now we are at three bikes.

6/25/1998 BPD Interview Continued, Excerpt
1 BRYAN MORGAN: If I understand it, all of these were taken in the early stages of the kidnapping scenes, which means early in the morning.
5 LOU SMIT: Yes.
6 JOHN RAMSEY: These tracks in the snow here, might have been bicycle tracks.
8 LOU SMIT: That's in photograph 101?
10 JOHN RAMSEY: Right. It wasn't unusual for him to ride throught the yard.
12 LOU SMIT: Did you say he had a bicycle that Christmas?
18 JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah, Patsy got a bicycle, JonBenet got a bicycle, Burke already had one, I am pretty sure. I don't know what it is, I guess.
That's back to two bikes again.

We Have Your Daughter by Paula Woodward, pp. 26
The kids ran into the bedroom at 6:30 that morning, John remembered. They were thrilled. I made them stay in our room until I went downstairs and turned on the Christmas tree lights. I brought in Patsy's bicycle from the garage. Burke and JonBenet's new bikes were already in front of the tree.
That's back to three again.

The Daily Camera, Boulder; By JULIE POPPEN, Camera Staff Writer; Friday, December 26, 1997; Excerpt
Christmas day was warm and sunny for the most part, and JonBenét and her brother each received new bicycles that their mother picked out from University Bicycles downtown.
That's back to three bikes with a third party referring to this aspect prior to JR being interviewed !

Also on Dr Phil we have Burke saying:
I remember peeking down and seeing an electric train. I was super excited, he recalled. I think she got a big doll house, we both got bikes.
Again that's three bikes.

So I guess the Doug Stine sleepover theory might fly, apparently Burke's bike is missing, and of course this might explain why the Ramsey's offered the Stines employment and Susan Stine was emailing fake news to BPD, all very suspicious?

.
 
As for the previous nights cloths: this makes no sense to me and neither does the makeup! She could have done that on the plane on the way to Michigan. She had kids to get ready, breakfast and coffee to serve, load up the car. Why wear party cloths on a plane ride in your personal plane? It’s not like somebody was going to see her. I agree with you she never changed her cloths or took a shower.

The same clothes the next day for PR really bothers me. I don't consider myself too vain; I'll go out with a messy bun and/or no makeup here and there and even when my makeup and hair is done, it's low maintenance and somewhat minimal. That being said, if I'm traveling - especially early in the morning - I know what I'll be wearing the day of travel. In packing, I set aside or at least mentally note what I'll be wearing on travel day(s). Furthermore, I don't wear anything twice in a row aside from jeans.

It baffles me that a woman as put together and focused on her appearance would wear the same clothing two days in a row. She had plenty of money to afford more than one favorite/nice/festive/etc outfit and she sure strikes me as the type to plan outfits in advance and also strikes me as the type that wouldn't risk being seen in the same outfit two days in a row. I just don't see why she would opt for the same outfit two days in a row. It seems very out of character in my opinion.
 
The same clothes the next day for PR really bothers me. I don't consider myself too vain; I'll go out with a messy bun and/or no makeup here and there and even when my makeup and hair is done, it's low maintenance and somewhat minimal. That being said, if I'm traveling - especially early in the morning - I know what I'll be wearing the day of travel. In packing, I set aside or at least mentally note what I'll be wearing on travel day(s). Furthermore, I don't wear anything twice in a row aside from jeans.

It baffles me that a woman as put together and focused on her appearance would wear the same clothing two days in a row. She had plenty of money to afford more than one favorite/nice/festive/etc outfit and she sure strikes me as the type to plan outfits in advance and also strikes me as the type that wouldn't risk being seen in the same outfit two days in a row. I just don't see why she would opt for the same outfit two days in a row. It seems very out of character in my opinion.

Exactly. It's nonsensical that she would get up and put the same party clothes back on.
I can't however believe that after all the staging and other stuff they must have done all night that she then also simply forgot to change clothes before the police arrive?? That also bothers me!
 
Apologies if this has been covered, but fairly new to the JBR forum.: )

Like most, I have a hard time buying the IDI theory, but it's surprising that she would have decided to keep wearing the very clothes that could implicate her in her daughter's death. She had to have known that even the slightest drop of JBR's blood found on her outfit would've catapulted her into lead POI status.

Makes me wonder about a lot of very different scenarios, including whether the crime was committed in her night clothes, perhaps, or whether she was looking to put an implicating outfit (or 2 or 3...) in the wash (she was fiddling by the washing machine before "finding" the RN, according to some reports).

"Fox Television quoted sources as saying an examination of clothes worn by John and Patsy Ramsey on the eve of the 6-year-old's killing is giving investigators new hope of solving the case...
Boulder police Cmdr. Mark Beckner, the lead investigator, told reporters earlier this month that there had been an important development in the case. He refused to discuss it further, except to say it was "exciting." The test results had only become available a few days earlier"

Ramsey clothing offers clue

Lots of questions here (maybe someone knows some of the answers): What were the results of the testing on PR's and JR's clothing that were so "exciting"? What was the clothing, specifically, that was tested? And did they not test BR's clothing from night of 12/25? Was any sleepwear from Ramsey family ever tested?

TIA!
 
"Fox Television quoted sources as saying an examination of clothes worn by John and Patsy Ramsey on the eve of the 6-year-old's killing is giving investigators new hope of solving the case...
Boulder police Cmdr. Mark Beckner, the lead investigator, told reporters earlier this month that there had been an important development in the case. He refused to discuss it further, except to say it was "exciting." The test results had only become available a few days earlier"

PR walked out of the house with her cloths on, long fur coat and purse on December 26, 1996. The cloths were not turned over to the police until January of 1998. PR sweater fibers were consistent with those found in the ligature, blanket, paint tray, duct tape and blanket. JR fibers from his sweater matched fibers found in JB labia.

BR pajamas were never tested to my knowledge.
 
Apologies if this has been covered, but fairly new to the JBR forum.: )

Like most, I have a hard time buying the IDI theory, but it's surprising that she would have decided to keep wearing the very clothes that could implicate her in her daughter's death. She had to have known that even the slightest drop of JBR's blood found on her outfit would've catapulted her into lead POI status.

Makes me wonder about a lot of very different scenarios, including whether the crime was committed in her night clothes, perhaps, or whether she was looking to put an implicating outfit (or 2 or 3...) in the wash (she was fiddling by the washing machine before "finding" the RN, according to some reports).

"Fox Television quoted sources as saying an examination of clothes worn by John and Patsy Ramsey on the eve of the 6-year-old's killing is giving investigators new hope of solving the case...
Boulder police Cmdr. Mark Beckner, the lead investigator, told reporters earlier this month that there had been an important development in the case. He refused to discuss it further, except to say it was "exciting." The test results had only become available a few days earlier"

Ramsey clothing offers clue

Lots of questions here (maybe someone knows some of the answers): What were the results of the testing on PR's and JR's clothing that were so "exciting"? What was the clothing, specifically, that was tested? And did they not test BR's clothing from night of 12/25? Was any sleepwear from Ramsey family ever tested?

TIA!

Fabra,

From Foreign Faction: Who Really Kidnapped JonBenet? by A. James Kolar; pages 367-70
"I had reviewed an investigator’s report that documented a 1997 interview with former Ramsey nanny – housekeeper Geraldine Vodicka, who stated that Burke had smeared feces on the walls of a bathroom during his mother’s first bout with cancer. She told investigators that Nedra Paugh, who was visiting the Ramsey home at the time, had directed her to clean up the mess.

There were other police reports in the files that documented what I thought could be viewed as related behavior. CSIs had written about finding a pair of pajama bottoms in JonBenét’s bedroom that contained fecal material. They were too big for her and were thought to belong to Burke.

Additionally, a box of candy located in her bedroom had also been observed to be smeared with feces. Both of these discoveries had been made during the processing of the crime scene during the execution of search warrants following the discovery of JonBenét’s body. "
Well could be they tested his pajama bottoms and do not want to release the results. Any fiber analysis and later dna results have not been made public either.

Was it the pajamas bottoms in the photo below, JonBenet aficionados might have noticed Kolar does not offer the color, hints of the long underwear, here which was code for Burke's longjohns!
jonbenet.four.we.have.your.daughter.cropped.png


Burke loves the media attention:
burke-ramsey-dr-phil.jpg


He said:
The killer was “probably some pedophile in the pageant audience” who “saw her at one of the pageants,” he explained to the Dr. Phil.

And if you want to believe the media he works from home as a software contractor and maybe has a girlfriend?

burke-ramsey-girlfriend.jpg


Have you considered that Patsy wearing the previous nights clothing might have been part of the staging?

Patsy was not concerned greatly by forensic details. Not changing her clothes was a deliberate choice, look at John he showered and changed.

The parents had all night to cleanup and wash stuff. It only takes twenty minutes to run the washing machine and another twenty to spin-dry, she could have washed lots of evidence away?

I'm guessing Patsy was playing the "Patsy", hoping to send investigators down the wrong line of inquiry?

.
 
PR walked out of the house with her cloths on, long fur coat and purse on December 26, 1996. The cloths were not turned over to the police until January of 1998.
It's utterly inconceivable the clothes weren't turned over for 2 years. In what world is that acceptable from a LE perspective? But that answers my question re: DNA or blood evidence on PR's/JR's clothing. Thank you, Rain.

UKGuy, your response made me chuckle in spots. But I guess what you're getting at (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that Patsy was willing to play the fall guy for her son. Def more noble an act than I ever gave her credit for. And when you think about it, it would require a level of genius to self-reference so adroitly--and then stop just short of incriminating herself time and again. Almost literary, really.

What I can't get around, though, is staging the body in such an abhorrent way--smacks of something way more disturbed, particularly if she was only covering for a potential accident on BR's part.
 
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It isn't that there were no prints found on the flashlight. It's that no usable prints were found.

In JonBenet Steve Thomas says: "Since the flashlight held no fingerprints, did the intruder carefully wipe it down, inside and out, even the batteries, then just forget it? It didn't fit....That it bore no fingerprints was consistent with a piece of equipment being handled in cold weather by a cop wearing gloves...."

Thomas doesn't say that partial or smudged prints were found. Where did you get your information?
 
The same clothes the next day for PR really bothers me. I don't consider myself too vain; I'll go out with a messy bun and/or no makeup here and there and even when my makeup and hair is done, it's low maintenance and somewhat minimal. That being said, if I'm traveling - especially early in the morning - I know what I'll be wearing the day of travel. In packing, I set aside or at least mentally note what I'll be wearing on travel day(s). Furthermore, I don't wear anything twice in a row aside from jeans.

It baffles me that a woman as put together and focused on her appearance would wear the same clothing two days in a row. She had plenty of money to afford more than one favorite/nice/festive/etc outfit and she sure strikes me as the type to plan outfits in advance and also strikes me as the type that wouldn't risk being seen in the same outfit two days in a row. I just don't see why she would opt for the same outfit two days in a row. It seems very out of character in my opinion.

Not only that, but she supposedly put on the previous day's clothing without taking a shower. In DOI she says she wanted to take a shower, but her shower was broken. There were 3 showers on the second floor alone. She had a long day ahead of her, much of which she would be spending with her stepchildren who had a good relationship with their mother, John's ex-wife. I think Patsy would have been done up to the nines.
 
It's utterly inconceivable the clothes weren't turned over for 2 years. In what world is that acceptable from a LE perspective? But that answers my question re: DNA or blood evidence on PR's/JR's clothing. Thank you, Rain.

UKGuy, your response made me chuckle in spots. But I guess what you're getting at (and correct me if I'm wrong) is that Patsy was willing to play the fall guy for her son. Def more noble an act than I ever gave her credit for. And when you think about it, it would require a level of genius to self-reference so adroitly--and then stop just short of incriminating herself time and again. Almost literary, really.

What I can't get around, though, is staging the body in such an abhorrent way--smacks of something way more disturbed, particularly if she was only covering for a potential accident on BR's part.

Fabra,
Yes, the staging of JonBenet's death is macabre, possibility of exaggerated drama here? Patsy definitely knotted and attached the ligature, the piece of paintbrush that might be JR, who knows?

All done to mask whatever went before, and all three Ramsey's were complicit, right down to Burke faking being asleep.

Burke even has a theory these days, i.e. pedophile from the pageants, to which he did not attend regularly, he liked his cars, boats, Nintendo, model-kits and gadgets, etc.

The R's were covering for each other, here is the sequence for the Partially Opened Gifts:

June 1998 John Ramsey Interrogation by Lou Smit and Mike Kane
20 JOHN RAMSEY: Well Patsy had gotten a bunch
21 of gifts at FAO Schwartz up in New York in early
22 December, some of which were for them were for
23 Burke's birthday, which was in January. She didn't
24 know they were in the closet exactly,
Yet, John knows ...

Later Patsy claims she opened the gifts, after wrapping them? Large Scotch please.

Kolar opines:
James Kolar, Foreign Faction, Excerpt
I learned, over the course of my inquiry, that it was Burke who had actually been responsible for tearing back the paper of the presents while playing in the basement on Christmas Day, and I wondered why Patsy would claim responsibility for doing this. Patsy had also told investigators that the unwrapped box of Lego toys in the same room was being hidden for Burke's upcoming January birthday.

I didn?t give much thought about the presence of Christmas presents in the room at the time, but would later think these played a role in some of the events that took place on Christmas day.

Conclusion: If Kolar's claims are correct then John knew Burke had been in the wine-cellar, and he was trying to remove Patsy from the suspect list, possibly because he put them in there along with JonBenet?

So, yes definitely I reckon Patsy went out of her way to make sure Burke appeared to have no involvement?

.
 
Exactly. It's nonsensical that she would get up and put the same party clothes back on.
I can't however believe that after all the staging and other stuff they must have done all night that she then also simply forgot to change clothes before the police arrive?? That also bothers me!
Perhaps, PR didn’t forget to change her cloths. They got a get out of jail free card; after all.
 
UKGuy,

Burke's theory leaves a lot to be desired. Not least of which is how arbitrary he wants this to seem--just some 'random pedophile' they unwittingly enticed at a pageant. And yet all the staging is crafted to point to someone "in the know."
Makes no sense, I agree.
 
Tobiano8th,
There have been several children convicted (age 10 and under) for murder....

I'm sure, but it was established here at WS decades ago that under Colorado law at the time, no child under the age of 10 could be charged with a felony. So BR was never in any legal jeopardy.

Now whether the Rs KNEW that is another matter. But even if they didn't know on the night JBR died, they were certainly told when they "lawyered up" in the next day or so.
 
In JonBenet Steve Thomas says: "Since the flashlight held no fingerprints, did the intruder carefully wipe it down, inside and out, even the batteries, then just forget it? It didn't fit....That it bore no fingerprints was consistent with a piece of equipment being handled in cold weather by a cop wearing gloves...."

Thomas doesn't say that partial or smudged prints were found. Where did you get your information?

Please point out where I said "Thomas said that partial or smudged prints were found".

There was a Ask Me Anything that was held a few years ago by either Thomas or Beckner and one of them said that no usable prints were found on the flashlight.
 
James Kolar's Q&A / AMA March 28, 2015, Excerpt
Question:
I'm currently reading your book, and I've been perplexed by the Maglite flashlight on the kitchen counter. The lack of fingerprints seems funky - if it belonged to the family, there should be prints. If it did not, it seems like hard evidence of a gloved intruder. What's your take on the Maglite?

Answer:
A good portion of the exterior barrel of the Maglite flashlight has a tightly webbed, cross-hatched surface which is not conducive to the collection of a latent fingerprint. Despite their efforts to collect that type of evidence, Boulder CSI's were not able to obtain any latent prints from the flashlight, and I think that highlights the issue regarding physical evidence at a crime scene. Sometimes it is difficult to explain why something is or is not there. For instance, John Ramsey handled the ransom note with his bare hands but none of the pages produced his latent prints. We could spend pages discussing physical evidence collection and the CSI effect that crime scene shows have had on the public perception of police work.
I believe the flashlight was used by Patsy to search for luggage earlier in the day and when returned to the kitchen, never made it back to its storage drawer. Based upon Dr. Spitz's analysis, I believe it possible that it was the instrument used to deliver the blow to JBR's head in the area of the kitchen.


I am former Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner. I worked in law enforcement for 36 years, and headed the investigation into the JonBenet Ramsey murder. AMAA.
smartgrowth:
all the physicians who examined JonBenet's body said she had been sexually violated many times -except the Ramseys doctor! Yet, the sexual motive was rarely mentioned later in the case. Why?

MarkBeckner:
It just didn't seem to fit the totality of the circumstances. Remember, she was hit on the head first, hard enough to render her unconscious. Then there was the staging of a kidnapping. Why do that if the motive is purely sexual?


/u/Mo7ia7ty:
Was the handwritten note tested for DNA/fingerprints? And do the police think the murderer sat in the house and wrote a long winded note on the Ramseys note pad before attempting to kidnap her. obviously didnt do it after if it was a criminal as they would have just got out. Also how might the "kidnapper" have known how much john ramseys bonus was. thanks.

MarkBeckner:
Yes, of course it was. The only fingerprint on the note was one belonging to the document examiner at the Colorado Bureau of Investigation (CBI). On the notepad from which the note came from, the only fingerprints on the pad belonged to the CBI agent, the sergeant with the police department who took the pad into custody, and Patsy Ramsey. No, we do not believe a someone wrote the note prior to attempting to kidnap JonBenet. Neither the PD or the FBI believe this was ever a kidnapping. It was a murder that someone tried to stage as a kidnapping.

ReginaldDwight:
I believe Perfect Murder, Perfect Town mentioned that the autopsy report had found evidence of sexual abuse prior to the night JonBenet was murdered. Aside from the injuries from the murder itself, there were injuries which had actually healed previously, indicating there was sexual abuse much prior to the crime. Is there any truth to this?

MarkBeckner:
... Yes, there was evidence that would indicate prior sexual abuse.

jaleach:
What is your opinion of Lou Smit and his involvement and conclusions in this case?

MarkBeckner:
Lou was a nice man and very religious. I believe he became emotionally involved with the family and in my opinion this clouded his judgement to the point where he could not accept the possibility that the family was involved. I base this on numerous conversations I had with him. Originally, I wanted to rely on some of Lou's conclusions based on the evidence he was telling me about. More than once, I followed up on the evidence he was using to support his belief and I found it not to be accurate.

anditwaslove:
Without pointing fingers or naming names should you understandably not want to, what is your view on the theory that JonBenet had been sexually abused over a period of time, as opposed to on that night alone?

MarkBeckner:
Evidence was found that would indicate she was sexually assaulted some time prior to the day of her death.

FrankieHellis:
Do you believe there was evidence of chronic sexual abuse with regard to Jon Benet?

MarkBeckner:
Based on evidence of prior damage to her vagina and hymen, experts told us there was evidence of prior abuse. No way to really know if it was chronic.

septicman:
lafolieisgood:
If the investigators came to the conclusion that there was a high likelihood that the juvenile brother had killed Jon Bonet, how would the investigation proceed from that point and what would likely be the final outcome?

MarkBeckner:
In Colorado, juveniles under 10 cannot be held criminally liable. There would have been no criminal case against the brother. However, if we assume for this question that he was involved, then we would want to know who helped him cover up the murder? That would be a separate crime and if the parents were involved, they could be charged for not seeking medical attention and for covering up the crime. Same would apply if an intruder helped cover it up.
 
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