Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #42

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IMO the Buckeroo data point has to be significant. For framing context in the PCA, LE could have got away with the data point at the Yellowstone Park entrance/exit; no need to mention Buckeroos.
I don't agree that it has to be significant. Every place he stopped and stayed after Tylee was caught on camera at Yellowstone, ie whenever he wasn't driving, has been documented, including going out for gas, getting take-out lunch the following day, so forth.

I think the significance is precisely that they have tracked and documented his every location, without exception, and to the minute. It is not a vague record of approximate locations with stops left out. If it were not so thorough, it wouldn't be as acceptable and compelling as evidence. If it had big holes, the defence would figure out a way to drive through those holes.
 
I kind of agree now.
1. Wondering if it could be another sighting we have yet to discover- a camera image or more.

2. Possibly a purchase from the tshirt store which was later found at burial site or has become evidence of some kind.

That location appears too busy for something to have happened there that would involve a struggle.

A credit card transaction that will tie to another purchase down the road- possibly at Mavericks?
Great ideas.... I also wonder if there’s a dumpster behind Buckeroos and that’s the exact datapoint.

Do we know where TR’s phone is? Maybe her phone went missing right about here?
 
Great ideas.... I also wonder if there’s a dumpster behind Buckeroos and that’s the exact datapoint.

Do we know where TR’s phone is? Maybe her phone went missing right about here?

Not sure where it is now, but according to the timeline, LV was texting people (Colby, another friend) pretending to be TR well after TR's death.
 
I really suspect they came out of Yellowstone, past the wolf sanctuary, drove a right, right, right, then parked in front of the buckaroo's and Alex grabbed some Mexican from the bus. Then ate it in the car. Truckers love their hole in the wall food. Maybe the kids hit the bathroom at the gas station.
 
I don't agree that it has to be significant. Every place he stopped and stayed after Tylee was caught on camera at Yellowstone, ie whenever he wasn't driving, has been documented, including going out for gas, getting take-out lunch the following day, so forth.

I think the significance is precisely that they have tracked and documented his every location, without exception, and to the minute. It is not a vague record of approximate locations with stops left out. If it were not so thorough, it wouldn't be as acceptable and compelling as evidence. If it had big holes, the defence would figure out a way to drive through those holes.
But this isn’t trial data or evidence to be used in a trial. It’s data in support of a probable cause affidavit. So, what in the PCA does the Buckeroo datapoint support?
 
I don't agree that it has to be significant. Every place he stopped and stayed after Tylee was caught on camera at Yellowstone, ie whenever he wasn't driving, has been documented, including going out for gas, getting take-out lunch the following day, so forth.

I think the significance is precisely that they have tracked and documented his every location, without exception, and to the minute. It is not a vague record of approximate locations with stops left out. If it were not so thorough, it wouldn't be as acceptable and compelling as evidence. If it had big holes, the defence would figure out a way to drive through those holes.

Might have been security cameras in these locations. Did they capture a photo of TR proving that she left Yellowstone alive? Or not. MO
 
But this isn’t trial data or evidence to be used in a trial. It’s data in support of a probable cause affidavit. So, what in the PCA does the Buckeroo datapoint support?

Pinning down time. It is a tight turn around. The stop isn't very long. They may be closing the gap of "but the kid could have been murdered anywhere" but the timing isn't suggestive that there is enough time to do so.
 
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@carbuff Yes, you are right in being more specific about the road. I guess I was writing a colloquialism for a four lane road. I do appreciate that you have clarified, because it is possible that they could cross, and easily, I just don't think it's probable. I know I'm beating a dead horse so to speak. I don't know why I can't let it go. Like others have said I just have a feeling that perhaps something nefarious happened at the BBQ parking lot that evening.
I totally agree with you on the significance of the Buckeroo datapoint, and you might be right about facing the wrong way being important...
 
I still think Melanie Gibb has a lot to answer for.

I’ve thought about her a lot bc I can’t stop thinking about this entire case. My first immediate reaction when MG heard Tylee called a zombie for not wanting to watch JJ and Tylees response was that response of No not me - was bc she (Tylee )was told Charles was a zombie and that was the explanation given for why he died. So I was upset with MG bc it seemed like she could’ve done more BUT MG didn’t actually murder anyone or help murder or hurt anyone. In reality I imagine she feels guilt whether it’s rational or not. Thinking about things in hindsight. I think MG has helped this investigation greatly and for that I’m thankful bc it’s clear she talked with LE the entire time and was forth coming. Her interview with Nate at first in some places rubbed me the wrong way but it was hours later I had the thought process that the entire interview was done with intent and calculation between her and LE. Maybe MG still does believe Lori is a victim in this and I don’t just mean a victim of temptation or a victim from the devil or whatever. I do know from reading the PCA that MG provided a lot of background , filled in pieces that we wouldn’t have had she not provided them. At this point in time given all that’s taken place I think just about anyone involved with Lori and Chad (minus her niece, Brother ....basically Loris family except her son ) have to feel absolutely horrible bc no they didn’t murder anyone but they also didn’t stop it and Lori was clearly unhinged and maybe that was out of fear, maybe it was bc in part some believed the weird stuff they were making up. I know if it was me personally I’d be so racked with guilt it’d eat me alive. I do that over things that happen daily and things that happened years ago that in no way ended up having to do with anyone being murdered. My therapist always explains guilt is a useless emotion unless you use it to propel you towards change. I think MG is religious and I think for her it’s important that people understand that’s it’s not really religion that caused all of this - or the right religion she believes they followed (at least Lori) a wrong leader , a wrong path . Almost like a false prophet scenario. While I completely disagree with that and think they did whatever they wanted and called it a calling and religion I don’t believe that chad really believed that and I think chad poured gasoline on an already lit fire that’s Lori. Maybe I have to let my mind and heart believe right now that Lori really believed at least in part some of what was said to her bc it’s just to hard to believe a mother would so thoughtlessly kill her children and throw them away like that otherwise. It’s hard not see and remember the times we’ve seen Loris smiling smug face while she knowing all the while her children were dead , buried and burned . if she didn’t really believe what she said......I can’t let my mind or heart go there yet bc it’s just too heartbreaking to think about.
 
When reading the probably cause docs, statements seemed to give Melanie Gibb a high degree of credibility and reliability. (for some reason, the language reminded me of how the Gilbert LE were enamored by Lori and Melanie).

I find it a bit strange, when so many of us here are so mistrusting of Melanie. So are they enamored? Or, are they possibly waiting to see just how much she does say publicly?
The Affidavit of Probable Cause is a recitation of facts. They are detailing her assistance. IMO, this is not about "feelings of love" (the definition of enamored).

Melanie G provided information. Maybe not enough for some, maybe too late for others, but her assistance is now part of the record.

I'm a heck of a lot more distrustful of Lori's family members, especially MBP, SS and JC.
 
Edit: Was supposed to include the question/quote from proctorelite re abuse. My bad - thumb-typing on phone.

(Mods, please delete if this is not allowed)

I've wondered for a while what happened in LV's family to send LV & AC so far off-kilter.

The violent activity with LV's prior husband(s) indicate their moral compass was/is way off for some time now.

Sometimes due to mental illness or other aspects beyond their control, good loving families end up raising children who go off the rails.

But for both LV and AC to be so far outside the bounds of normal morality, it seems like there may have been a crime or crimes many years ago against the young LCVD & AC?

We also know that many times formerly abused people will come unhinged (clinical term) when their children reach the age they were when they were abused.

When you add in what appears to be traits of NPD to LVCD, with the added stressors of a teen daughter becoming a woman ("competition" to Ns, a normal reasonable mild crisis for most mothers) there's potential for things to go wrong. Usually not murder, of course.

There's something to the fact you see LCVD in red lipstick but never see TR with that same facade of "glamour." That might actually be protection/self-protection.

When I first read TR was to be going to college, I was astounded, because in some ways, she looked like a very, very young 17. In a way, she seemed "forever young," which is one way of keeping Mom's "competition" in check and staying on good terms in this household.

One thing is certain, the boundaries between the Cox siblings were very malleable - where did they learn that?

Someone asked this many, many threads back, and I wonder, too - what was in this for AxC?

Why did he need that much approval from his sister that he'd do these heinous things (starting with the known assault on TR's father, and including everything we know and everything else that DIDN'T make the news). Sure, a person hopefully stands up for their siblings, even as adults, but this goes soooooo far beyond that.

Plus, the guy is in jail after the assault on TR's father and STILL bent on revenge (via the jail letter to his friend). I mean, you're basically in ICU with a burned-up nub of a hand from putting it on the hot stove, and your response is to try to figure out how to get your other hand on the hot stove? The letter wasn't even anything LCVD would have ostensibly seen, so it's not posturing for her approval, it's very clearly a revenge obsession with someone who technically didn't do anything to him (that we're aware of, although I can only assume a polite "Could you please extract yourself from our marriage, dear brother-in-law" might have been issued by at least two husbands?). What causes that kind of deep-seeded revenge fantasies, and is it an indication of an overall familial break with reality that would allow these atrocities?

What did AxC miss out on as a child that made him need to be "this important" as an accessory to his sister?

It's also clear that TR was "parentified" in her role as caretaker for JJ. The fact she was a "little adult" more or less removes another boundary to protect her and protect her years of innocent childhood.

Likewise, while LCVD was busy on her husband carousel, she was most certainly not busy being a vigilant mother (unless she has incredible multitasking skills beyond mortal humans? Oh, but she is a "God," isn't she?).

That was a lot of broad musing, proctorelites, in reply to your thoughts, but I would have to agree the CONDITIONS to enable abuse were certainly there and the protections that prevent such atrocities from happening wholly absent.

That may be too much horror for our outraged minds to process right now, but statistics indicate it happens so much more than people recognize. We just don't talk about it.

But again, I think many of us here are at maximum capacity for sadness, dismay, horror, and heartbreak, so while it may be 100% relevant to motivations on both LCVD & AxC's part, it might be too much for some to delve into at the moment?

I hope it didn't happen. Dear lord, let that child have escaped SOME of the horrors that could have befallen her. Please, please, please. She had more than her fair share of burdens in her short lifetime, and a premature departure that even Stephen King could not have conjured... "Unfair" is such an understatement.

I must have missed the letter can you tell me where it is or where it’s discussed. Sorry
 
I really suspect they came out of Yellowstone, past the wolf sanctuary, drove a right, right, right, then parked in front of the buckaroo's and Alex grabbed some Mexican from the bus. Then ate it in the car. Truckers love their hole in the wall food. Maybe the kids hit the bathroom at the gas station.

I thought I'd add why they might do this route (Yellowstone Ave). There is a really good mexican food restaurant on this road and tons of tourist shops. The cafe (I think it is the cafe) does a nice job of mexican (better than the bus by far) but if no one but Alex wanted to stop then he could just do this right right right, and end up in front of the mexican food bus. The restaurant might have been closed too, or just not something Lori wanted to do. She doesn't seem the type - delicious but not fancy at all. This stretch of road is ice cream, nicknacks, you know, the usual but cheaper than in the park. The restaurant is sort of quietly famous for foody types who might like this sort of stuff, and truckers would be on that list of people.

BTW, their tex-mex breaky is delicious.

If they paid cash, there is as DQ right there on the corner. The food issue kids I know are good with their chicken strips. There is also an ice cream place next door to the bus. And a gas station on the corner to hit the head.

Map - you can drag the little person down to the street and look around and see why people choose this route.

(x was a foody, into mexican food and street food, whose Father was a trucker.)
 
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Studying the affidavit, I have a question regarding how often Cox's cell phone was pinging. For instance, consider this statement:

On Monday, September 9, from 00:00 (12 a.m.) and 00:44 Cox’s phone was located at his apartment (107.) However, at 02:42 (2:42 am.) to 03:37 (3:37 a.m.) Cox is located again at Lori’s Apartment (1 75) where Lori lived with Tylee and JJ.
Where was Alex between 00:44 and 2:42 am when he is at Lori's apartment? If he stayed at his apartment until going to Lori's does that mean the phone wasn't pinging? Does the phone only ping when it is being used?
 
But this isn’t trial data or evidence to be used in a trial. It’s data in support of a probable cause affidavit. So, what in the PCA does the Buckeroo datapoint support?

IMO, it's demonstrating that the evidence, in this case a very unusual form of witness, is reliable and complete. The evidence shows, for example, that AC stayed in his own apartment until a time when he went to LV's apartment, then went back to his own apartment. They could have left out that he was in his own apartment during certain times, but they left it in. It's not evidence in support of any particular allegation, it just shows they know exactly where he was and when.
 
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