Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #42

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Read paragraph 22 of the APC for Chad's arrest. A detective from the Fremont County Sheriff's Office contacted Tammy Daybell's sister to ask if she had any knowledge of a pet cemetery on the Daybell's property. Ask yourself why he would ask such a question with no foundation. This actually corroborates a rumor that is out there that there is an inside source who has talked to LE (not Chad, Lori, ZP, MG, or anyone else that has been discussed on here.)

Mods, I'm not sure if this violates TOS. I am reporting a released LE implied corroboration of a rumor rather than the rumor itself and am not naming the person who talked or the source of the rumor.
BBM. The "inside source" in question was Chad himself. He texted Tammy that he buried a raccoon in the yard with other pets that day. Police simply asked Tammy's sister about the location of the pet cemetery on the property. No mystery about it. Nate Eaton said before the release of the affidavit that it was a collection of clues that led to the arrest warrant.
 
I guess I have a different approach to this whole thing.
I don't believe in any of this stuff, which makes me assume the Zombie Gang don't believe any of it either. Which makes me opine that the whole zombie/end of days apparatus was just a convenient story to legitimize getting what they wanted in life. And doing that would involve killing a bunch of people. And then former lives and portals and a whole bunch of other motifs were thrown on top like embellishments, not essentials.
Maybe the problem is in my assumption. Maybe my own beliefs have given me a blind spot because I just can't imagine folks actually believing this stuff. But, yep, I see it all as a self-aggrandizing babble used to legitimize murder. A Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh type do-over. (The Rajneeshees poisoned an Oregon town with salmonella—first terrorist attack on US soil—as revenge for opposition to their plan.)
Mods, if I'm being offensive, please remove my post. But I'm really just trying to understand my own approach to this case, and it's based on not being able to believe any of this myself. I'm really fascinated that some folks come at this case from the exact opposite direction and arrive at the idea that a cluster of folks could so ardently believe in zombies etc. that they'd murder for their beliefs. I'm not saying they're wrong, just that I can't go there.
Is it possible the Zombie Gang were in both of those spaces simultaneously? Believing but at the same time using their beliefs cynically to get what they want?
We shall see how it turns out!

That's a very self-aware analysis. I think it's very human to project your own belief system on the suspects in a case like this, or at least to project your own range of "what's believable" onto others.

I can't believe any of the things that Chad and his circle believe in, either. Including, candidly, the more common mainstream beliefs that underlie their fringe beliefs. None of it. But I do believe that they can believe them. Faith is a choice. I'm not sure what any of these people really believe(d). And I'm finding the distinction between their beliefs and their other motives less interesting by the day. I see high-functioning people making choices to murder children and deceive other people about it. There will never be a satisfying answer to the why, no matter what it is.
 
Charles already told people that Lori claimed Charles become a zombie. He also told people he was afraid Lori and Alex were going to kill him.
Police still didn't do anything. No arrests were made. So I don't think MG is the one to blame here. Police had all this information without MG.
I agree with you however, if she had come forward back then, maybe LE would have listened more with 2 people saying the same thing about the zombies, etc.
Plus LVD had told MG that CV was not alive and an evil spirit named Nick Schneider had killed CV and was using his body.
IF MG had also said that along with what CV was saying, maybe he would not have been killed and would have had protection.
Same with TD-- if MG had also told LE her concerns knowing that CD said TD will die in an accident, or he sees TD dying, maybe something could have saved her.
If she would have then also told LE that LVD saw TR as a zombie and she feared for her life, maybe both JJ and Tylee would still be alive.
I am just speculating "what if" MG had come forward as she could have helped support CV fears that he reported.
JMO
 
There is also a repeating theme of him using other peoples' beliefs to manipulate them. It's possible he had not developed those skills yet in High School. He did it with Tammy (Farmville, etc.) and with Lori (dark/light crap).

100% this. I read him as a natural con man who lacked finesse in his younger years. All he ever needed was the right audience and a few devices/tricks, which he found through NLP and attending seminars. Working his wife, and eventually working his fans and seminar attendees. We've heard examples of him doing cold reading using props. He consciously uses techniques like mirroring to get other people to mirror him. I bet his public library record would be an interesting read.

ETA: Reflecting on this a little, and what @Redvines86 has said about what CD wrote in her yearbook, maybe it would be better to say that he's got a long history of needing to be in control, and he has simply learned various ways of gaining the control -- through psychological tricks -- he so badly seems to need.
 
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I agree with you however, if she had come forward back then, maybe LE would have listened more with 2 people saying the same thing about the zombies, etc.
Plus LVD had told MG that CV was not alive and an evil spirit named Nick Schneider had killed CV and was using his body.
IF MG had also said that along with what CV was saying, maybe he would not have been killed and would have had protection.
Same with TD-- if MG had also told LE her concerns knowing that CD said TD will die in an accident, or he sees TD dying, maybe something could have saved her.
If she would have then also told LE that LVD saw TR as a zombie and she feared for her life, maybe both JJ and Tylee would still be alive.
I am just speculating "what if" MG had come forward as she could have helped support CV fears that he reported.
JMO
Moo
If MG had gone to all of these different agencies talking about zombies and possession, at least they would have written her off as lunatic and at most tried to commit her for a couple days. Police departments can’t handle stories about zombies. It’s like in BGrade horror movies, when people call and say martians are invading and the police are like “Ok lady, whatever you say. We’ll try to send a car out” and in the meantime the invaders are destroying the neighborhood. They didn’t get involved until there were missing kids and possible murders—possible crimes they understand and can deal with, not seemingly crazy stories with no evidence.
 
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There is one thing in the timeline:

2007 – CV’s 2nd ex-wife begins to have concerns about Lori’s mental health. “She just seemed off. There were a lot of strange goings-on at their home to the point that a judge ordered cameras to be put in their home to protect the children,” Cheryl says (East Idaho News).

ID - Joshua Vallow & Tylee Ryan, Rexburg, Sept 2019 TIMELINE ONLY - *NO DISCUSSION*

I'm sorry I am such a buzzkill/Devil's Advocate, but that's non-specific, we don't know any details (or even if it's true), and it's from long before JJ was even born. I do understand that it implies bad things, though.
 
That has been my position since the ME report was released. But if Tammy died of PE - I'm going total conspiracy theory about an exotic poison!

Hahaha, I am with you 100% on that. I, too, reserve the right to join Team Poison if better evidence surfaces!

ETA: Frankly, so did the ME, if you read the report.
 
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Moo
If MG had gone to all of these different agencies talking about zombies and possession, at least they would have written her off as lunatic and at most tried to commit her for a couple days. Police departments can’t handle stories about zombies. It’s like in BGrade horror movies, when people call and say martians are invading and the police are like “Ok lady, whatever you say. We’ll try to send a car out” and in the meantime the invaders are destroying the neighborhood. They didn’t get involved until there were missing kids and possible murders—possible crimes they understand and can deal with, not seemingly crazy stories with no evidence.

I agree with you. I take issue with MG's earlier choices, but I agree with you that her trying to report something would have been unlikely to end anywhere good. The cops wouldn't have known what to do with her, and Lori would still have gaslighted her way out of it, as she did later on with the other LE confrontation.
 
Also: "Get the Hell out of here" was situationally appropriate. If his parents had said in a heated argument "Buzz off" or "Get off my lawn" that's what he would have said instead and he wouldn't have been rebelling against bees or elderly people.

I’ve assumed all along that JJ was parroting Alex yelling at Charles. :mad::(
 
I guess I have a different approach to this whole thing.
I don't believe in any of this stuff, which makes me assume the Zombie Gang don't believe any of it either. Which makes me opine that the whole zombie/end of days apparatus was just a convenient story to legitimize getting what they wanted in life. And doing that would involve killing a bunch of people. And then former lives and portals and a whole bunch of other motifs were thrown on top like embellishments, not essentials.
Maybe the problem is in my assumption. Maybe my own beliefs have given me a blind spot because I just can't imagine folks actually believing this stuff. But, yep, I see it all as a self-aggrandizing babble used to legitimize murder. A Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh type do-over. (The Rajneeshees poisoned an Oregon town with salmonella—first terrorist attack on US soil—as revenge for opposition to their plan.)
Mods, if I'm being offensive, please remove my post. But I'm really just trying to understand my own approach to this case, and it's based on not being able to believe any of this myself. I'm really fascinated that some folks come at this case from the exact opposite direction and arrive at the idea that a cluster of folks could so ardently believe in zombies etc. that they'd murder for their beliefs. I'm not saying they're wrong, just that I can't go there.
Is it possible the Zombie Gang were in both of those spaces simultaneously? Believing but at the same time using their beliefs cynically to get what they want?
We shall see how it turns out!
Bolded by me. I feel the same. For weeks, I tried to figure out in my mind what leads someone to actually believe in labeling people as zombies and as dark spirit, light spirit, etc. and what kind of cult thinks it is ok to kill? Then I just decided that these 2 are just lying murderers as was hit man Alex. There is nothing religious about them. JMO
 
I'm baffled, too, I don't think CPD did their best work that day. I hope we hear more about that at some point.

I grew up in Arizona. I'm not surprised, not because CPD screwed up that day but because I don't think you can truly understand the situation if you don't live in Arizona, Texas, and a few other states like Montana, Wyoming, and possibly Idaho.

Even before "stand your ground" laws, the legal environment was very much influenced by the old west heritage. I learned it was perfectly legal to kill someone defending your livestock, which could include chickens, cattle, goats, etc. I think the law has changed and I'm still trying to find out if this was really true. As someone said, gunfighting in the streets was legal in some areas in Arizona until 1967. Ranchers would sometimes shoot at trespassers. That mostly stopped in the late 70s when a rancher was aquitted of killing some illegal immigrants but was retried under Federal law and convicted of interferring with interstate commerce (Hobbs Act). See United States v. Hanigan, 681 F.2d 1127, 1130-31 (9th Cir. 1982)

In these days of horrible school shootings I'm sure things have changed but I would sometimes take a rifle or shotgun to school so that I could go hunting on the way home. This was not against school rules. You just could not have the gun loaded on school property. You did not even have to declare you had it. You just had to take it directly from your car to your locker and back at the end of the day. Guns were not allowed on the bus. You also had to have a hunting license and, at the time, this required passing a firearms safety class if you were below a certain age.

I'm in my 50s and when I was in high school around 35-40 years ago, you occasionally saw people walking around town openly carrying a gun on their hip. They generally had good reason because they were jewelers or others who often had valuables on their person but still, it is a huge change from today. At that time concealed carry was illegal but open carry was perfectly legal. That kind of open carry was pretty rare in Tucson and Phoenix even back then but not at all uncommon in smaller towns.

So a shooting under the circumstances represented by Alex, Lori, and Tylee that morning would not seem too suspicious at the time. This was not a gang shooting or a robbery. This was by all appearances a case of self defense. Yes, I believe it was a setup. But based on the evidence police had at the time it was not suspicious on the surface. I think as they continued to investigate there were more things that looked out of place. But AC died before they could take any action.
 
I agree with you however, if she had come forward back then, maybe LE would have listened more with 2 people saying the same thing about the zombies, etc.
Plus LVD had told MG that CV was not alive and an evil spirit named Nick Schneider had killed CV and was using his body.
IF MG had also said that along with what CV was saying, maybe he would not have been killed and would have had protection.
Same with TD-- if MG had also told LE her concerns knowing that CD said TD will die in an accident, or he sees TD dying, maybe something could have saved her.
If she would have then also told LE that LVD saw TR as a zombie and she feared for her life, maybe both JJ and Tylee would still be alive.
I am just speculating "what if" MG had come forward as she could have helped support CV fears that he reported.
JMO
Sure, but why not speculate what if AC had decided he didn't want to kill anyone, or LV had told CD where to go when he suggested her children were zombies, or CD had decided to just get a divorce. Why is it somehow the responsibility of MG and the police to prevent this disaster from happening? Isn't it the guilty parties who are to be blamed?
 
BBM. The "inside source" in question was Chad himself. He texted Tammy that he buried a raccoon in the yard with other pets that day. Police simply asked Tammy's sister about the location of the pet cemetery on the property. No mystery about it. Nate Eaton said before the release of the affidavit that it was a collection of clues that led to the arrest warrant.
Yes, I think you are right. The text from the search of Tammy's phone was obtained on June 1 and referred to a pet cemetery. June 2 the detective visited Tammy's sister to find out where it was. I say visited rather than called because he goes on to say she pointed out the location on an aerial photo of the property.
 
Bolded by me. I feel the same. For weeks, I tried to figure out in my mind what leads someone to actually believe in labeling people as zombies and as dark spirit, light spirit, etc. and what kind of cult thinks it is ok to kill? Then I just decided that these 2 are just lying murderers as was hit man Alex. There is nothing religious about them. JMO
I think there's many psychological aspects to the case: People bonding over far-out beliefs, feeling finally accepted and understood. Unusual relationships between sister and brother, between two people married to other people, between spouses and ex-spouses. Tests and proofs of loyalty. Power seeking and manipulation, boundary testing, proving oneself worthy of an exalted status. If a serious crime fails to solve the problem, it creates a justification for each further crime: why take that first risk, if you're not going to end up with what you wanted in the first place? Group think: each person talks the other out of their doubts and concerns. No one is willing to be the one who betrays the others by backing out. On and on it goes.
 
I think there's many psychological aspects to the case: People bonding over far-out beliefs, feeling finally accepted and understood. Unusual relationships between sister and brother, between two people married to other people, between spouses and ex-spouses. Tests and proofs of loyalty. Power seeking and manipulation, boundary testing, proving oneself worthy of an exalted status. If a serious crime fails to solve the problem, it creates a justification for each further crime: why take that first risk, if you're not going to end up with what you wanted in the first place? Group think: each person talks the other out of their doubts and concerns. No one is willing to be the one who betrays the others by backing out. On and on it goes.
You are absolutely right. Something was obviously not right in that household Lori and Alex grew up in. I’d be shocked if other family members had no clue that these 2 were disturbed, at least to a certain degree. But I could be wrong.
Some people just see what they want to see. It has to be a terrible burden to find out 2 of your family members are involved in homicides. Enter Chad, the 3rd member of the team. But I give none of them a pass for any reason. They were mentally healthy enough to take off to Hawaii on TD’s money (presumably her life insurance money). Just cold blooded evil.
 
I think there's many psychological aspects to the case: People bonding over far-out beliefs, feeling finally accepted and understood. Unusual relationships between sister and brother, between two people married to other people, between spouses and ex-spouses. Tests and proofs of loyalty. Power seeking and manipulation, boundary testing, proving oneself worthy of an exalted status. If a serious crime fails to solve the problem, it creates a justification for each further crime: why take that first risk, if you're not going to end up with what you wanted in the first place? Group think: each person talks the other out of their doubts and concerns. No one is willing to be the one who betrays the others by backing out. On and on it goes.
IMO without the extreme religious beliefs Alex would not have had a motive to murder the children. I don't think he had much say in the group and neither did MG. It was all directed by Chad and Lori.
 
Sure, but why not speculate what if AC had decided he didn't want to kill anyone, or LV had told CD where to go when he suggested her children were zombies, or CD had decided to just get a divorce. Why is it somehow the responsibility of MG and the police to prevent this disaster from happening? Isn't it the guilty parties who are to be blamed?
Evil thrives when good people do nothing. I do agree that we measure MG's reactions by our own.
 
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