Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #43

[JRWoodwardMSW]

I think it was murder. But I'm not convinced it was planned days in advance. I think something happened like Tylee threatened to tell what really happened to Charles or something either on the trip or after they got back and Lori and Alex decided they had to take action.

And then JJ became a burden because Lolo had always relied on Tylee to care for him. Not only did she have to manage him after Tylee died, he wouldn't stop asking about her -- which is why he couldn't go to Kay Woodcock; his persistent questions would eventually start her asking questions, too. Tylee may have been an accident, of Lolo got scared of her "dark" nature some other scenario involving an impulse killing, but JJ can only have been premeditated.
And here I'm supposed to say "IMO," but I not good at humble.

 

[JRWoodwardMSW]

I totally agree that Tylee was murdered in the wee hrs in Lori's home. It doesnt make sense to me to kill her while coming home from Yellowstone. I dont think there was enough time to dismember her at Lori's but since I dont know how long it takes to do that I wouldn't take it off the the table. It would make it easier to transport and burn her.
Jmo

There's an old Gahan Wilson cartoon from the Seventies that shows a writer at his typewriter. "It takes time to dismember a woman with a rusty saw. It takes ..." The writer stops, puts on his hat and coat, and goes out. In the next panel he's back and he types, "a good twenty minutes."

 

[FindingJoLee]

I think a PE is exactly what TD died of. She was coughing and foaming at the mouth. AC was foaming at the mouth. Pretty indicative of having a PE event.

MOO

It's certainly possible, but here's what holds me back from that: How did Lori know to buy a wedding ring before Tammy's PE?

 

[JRWoodwardMSW]

Re BBM
Ive been speculating and wondering if the same basic method was used on 3 out of 4 of them. Poison and then gunshot as a backup if they did not die quick enough or when they wanted them to die.

With Charles, there was a setup gunshot plan only. They couldn't get close enough to him to administer poison without his knowledge so a more direct plan was used.

I would not be surprised if LE finds evidence of gunshot on one or two of the children if the poison didnt work quick enough for them.

Couldn't have been suffocation or strangulation. Lolo wouldn't risk breaking a nail.

 

[JRWoodwardMSW]

I don't agree that the deaths didn't raise eyebrows. It appears there was lots of rumours and gossip, we know that from IP. But no one had any evidence, it was just rumours and gossip.

Certainly, a man shooting his brother-in-law in 'self defense' would be a big deal in many parts of the world. Police where I live would arrest him, and file major charges since he had served time in jail for tasering his previous brother-in-law. But it is apparently not such a big deal in Arizona.

Something something something "in-laws and outlaws."

 

[lurker042]

It's certainly possible, but here's what holds me back from that: How did Lori know to buy a wedding ring before Tammy's PE?

Because they gave her something to cause it. Just like AC.
Here is the thing....JJ was not burned. If the same toxin/poison was used on him then LE will know what to look for in any of the other deaths.

MOO

 

[osu]

Great idea that TR might not have been visible...
The obvious location for a security camera was the West Yellowstone entrance to the Park. But that might only give a license plate.
I think we're going to see that Buckeroo ping developed later in the case.

Catching up so this may have already been discussed..

This is Google Earth Street View at the intersection of N. Canyon St and Madison Ave. approx 1/4 block down from Buckaroo Bill’s BBQ. I’m not sure if these are cameras on the poles or not?

JMO

 

[JRWoodwardMSW]

You are VERY forgiving of Chad.

Nothing about him gives me any reason to cast him as an innocent victim of circumstances pulled into the nefarious world he was so very innocent in. He is just a man who hangs out with serial killers, and men who brag about their capacity for violence, desires a firey end to the world so he can rule over it,who cheats on his wife, watches her die painfully probably then tells people it is peaceful, sexually assaults his friends then threatens them about it,tells people he is an apostle, prophet and god. And lets his children live meters from the dismembered body of a child and the rotting body of another for cover, and is overjoyed by the violent death of his extramarital lover's husband.
edit to add: leeched off his wife for his entire life.

Nothing about this suggests to me a man who deserves the sort of gullible victim of circumstances your story develops.

Wow, what a resume!

 

[Hatfield]

Sorry, sudden death. For instance when otherwise (assumed) healthy people drop dead at home. (To be clear: I'm not suggesting that Tammy had a PE. I'm waiting on her autopsy results like everyone else and will be shocked if there was any sort of natural phenomenon.)

While I would not say it is a 'common' cause of death- it certainly happens often enough that I personally know of two adults and a child (significant risk factors including a clotting disorder) who have died from it.
You know all those commercials you see on TV for Xarelto and Eliquis? They are specifically to prevent PE and millions of people have enough risk factors to take them.
Like I said in a previous post- I follow this case closely AND I am naturally suspicious. But AC was a truck driver and that is in and of itself a high risk for PE.

Thanks for the responses as I was really wondering about this.

I agree for someone like Alex it would make more sense since he was a truck driver.

 

[FindingJoLee]

Because they gave her something to cause it. Just like AC.
Here is the thing....JJ was not burned. If the same toxin/poison was used on him then LE will know what to look for in any of the other deaths.

MOO

What toxin/poison are you thinking?

 

[SiberianSleuth]

Pings can occur for reasons other than changing location -- some apps will geolocate you anytime you use them (if you're an iPhone user, you agree to those TOS and are asked if you want to turn it off all the time). I wouldn't read too much into 00:44 other than that it was the last time he was pinged at that location. Maybe he was checking Del Taco's hours?

As to the precision of the location, that would depend on how many GPS satellites were in view at the time he was geolocated, and there would certainly have been some kind of confidence ellipse around the point on the map, which would tell you what the margin of error was. If you use e.g Apple Maps to "find a friend", you'll note there's a big circle around the pin, that represents a crude confidence ellipse. In other words "we think your POI is where this pin is, but our margin of error is this big circle".

So what CAST has done is probably make an educated guess based on the distance between the apartments being great enough that the geolocations at the two different times are outside the confidence ellipses for either apartment.

I hope this makes sense.

Phones connected to the Internet also help pinpoint.

 

[lacegrl130]

Phones connected to the Internet also help pinpoint.

There is also a very precise way to link location by using Google. I can’t explain it, but the Podcast “To Live and Die in LA” gives a very very precise description of how it works. A murder was solved involving a body that had been buried in a remote location. The pings and Google coordinates took them right to the grave much like in this case.

 

[SiberianSleuth]

There is also a very precise way to link location by using Google. I can’t explain it, but the Podcast “To Live and Die in LA” gives a very very precise description of how it works. A murder was solved involving a body that had been buried in a remote location. The pings and Google coordinates took them right to the grave much like in this case.

Very true. I just haven't seen anyone mention that it could be a simple as ip addresses. But I'm not caught up yet, stupid me took a break Friday night and Saturday.

 

[GRT]

Speaking of gullible, both Melani(e)s indicated that Alex really believed in the zombie stuff.

To justify his part in the killings, he would have to, I think. Madness runs in families, I'm told. Scary.

 

[GRT]

Pulmonary embolism is a common cause of death - top 5-ish.

Yes, it is relatively common, but "sudden death" from the disorder occurs in only a quarter of those who are diagnosed, meaning Alex's specific variety of the disorder was less common.

While that may well be what killed him, the autopsy features a disclaimer that the cause of death could change if more information were to arise.

The tox screen would not have tested Alex's remains for all types of toxins, but a number of chemicals could lead to a pulmonary embolism event.

 

[RickshawFan]

I guess I have a different approach to this whole thing.
I don't believe in any of this stuff, which makes me assume the Zombie Gang don't believe any of it either. Which makes me opine that the whole zombie/end of days apparatus was just a convenient story to legitimize getting what they wanted in life. And doing that would involve killing a bunch of people. And then former lives and portals and a whole bunch of other motifs were thrown on top like embellishments, not essentials.
Maybe the problem is in my assumption. Maybe my own beliefs have given me a blind spot because I just can't imagine folks actually believing this stuff. But, yep, I see it all as a self-aggrandizing babble used to legitimize murder. A Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh type do-over. (The Rajneeshees poisoned an Oregon town with salmonella—first terrorist attack on US soil—as revenge for opposition to their plan.)
Mods, if I'm being offensive, please remove my post. But I'm really just trying to understand my own approach to this case, and it's based on not being able to believe any of this myself. I'm really fascinated that some folks come at this case from the exact opposite direction and arrive at the idea that a cluster of folks could so ardently believe in zombies etc. that they'd murder for their beliefs. I'm not saying they're wrong, just that I can't go there.
Is it possible the Zombie Gang were in both of those spaces simultaneously? Believing but at the same time using their beliefs cynically to get what they want?
We shall see how it turns out!

It's not my thing to reply to my own posts, but can you imagine either selecting a jury or being a jury member for this case? Every person is gonna have layers of biases and assumptions that have nothing to do with the individuals. Can you imagine the jury room?
I'm thinking trying to get the death penalty would be a very bad idea. All the jury members' positions are going to be intractable. No consensus at all. Even a non-hung jury might be difficult?

 

[Sorelle19]

OK, I take your point, although I still haven't read a single first-hand account that says she treated either of these children badly. Right up until she conspired to kill them in cold blood, that is. That's one of the things that keeps me up at night, in fact. How nonchalant she was in continuing to act like things were normal, right up until she murdered them.

Annie Cushing is Tylee's aunt. She visited Tylee and Lori after Joe Ryan's death. She has been very vocal about Lori's casual forms of abuse and neglect.

 

[RickshawFan]

IMO
Something I am hung up on: LE has had Alex’s truck for quite sometime. I would imagine the truck has been thoroughly investigated for evidence of any crime and/or transportation of victims. Perhaps even used cadaver dogs to see if there was any residual scent? Early in the investigation I believe LE believed the children were missing feared in danger, but I never got the feeling they were 100% sure themselves.
If Alex’s truck had no residual evidence to determine they were in fact dead what vehicle transported them? We know Alex was at Chads but we do not know with the same certainty if his truck was. Were they alive and killed at the site? Chads vehicle?
Also, Alex had a out of state vanity plate, that was blasted across the news, would that not raise some recall in the neighborhood? Fires and digging may not raise as many red flags in rural Idaho as an unusual out of state vanity plate for several hours and also on several different occasions.

Yikes! Didn't they have a rental?
If LE got lucky, I'm guessing AxC also had GPS on his truck, so they'd actually know whether the truck and the phone were at the same spot, i.e. at Chad's burying bodies. Then they'd know to focus on the truck.

 

[Knox]

It's certainly possible, but here's what holds me back from that: How did Lori know to buy a wedding ring before Tammy's PE?

Because the plot was hatched ... I will never believe AxC died of natural causes, just like Tammy didn't peacefully die in her sleep. Poison has to be the answer.

Who was around him in the day prior to his death? Is it at all plausible that he would have ingested something on his own? Sort of like a guilt response and knowing LE was getting close? I wouldn't think so, but trying to look at all angles. I'm hoping the ME saved samples for later testing, do they do that?

 

[CSIDreamer]

It's not my thing to reply to my own posts, but can you imagine either selecting a jury or being a jury member for this case? Every person is gonna have layers of biases and assumptions that have nothing to do with the individuals. Can you imagine the jury room?
I'm thinking trying to get the death penalty would be a very bad idea. All the jury members' positions are going to be intractable. No consensus at all. Even a non-hung jury might be difficult?

Generally speaking, I oppose the death penalty. In this case, I'm adamantly against it. If these 2 truly believe all the rubbish they spew, they will want death in order to be reunited and married again in their next reincarnation. No. Just no. Jmo