Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #43

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Nikynoo said:
what do you think about Tammy's death?
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Pretty ****odd**** that Risperidone can cause PE. The other night I spent a few hours researching this drug and PE. My jaw dropped reading some of the things I found.

Just humor me and read the abstract portion here:

Acute Massive Pulmonary Thromboembolism Associated With Risperidone and Conventional Phenothiazines - PubMed

Statistically significant....meaning a sample size of X number of people does or does not provide a satisfactory confidence interval (90%, 99%, etc.) in which to judge the data on.

So, in this study their sample size of X number of patients was most likely too small (they need more people).

If you are bored just google ACs COD and Risperidone. Very interesting reading.

Is there a doctor in the house???
 
As far as Chad's beliefs, that demons/"dark" people need to be gotten rid of, when did Chad learn about these beliefs? IMO, it seems like if he believed in it, there would have been deaths before CV (like before he even met Lori). It just seems odd, as far as we know, that these killings started with CV via AxC. Again, JMO.

If Chad indeed shot a raccoon, why, oh why? Why shoot an innocent animal? It's not like there were crops of veggies & fruit that a raccoon could have damaged. If true, then RIP raccoon.

JMO
 
Nikynoo said:
IDK, she wasn't that big, heavy maybe, but not long.

GRAPHIC WARNING;
I've done some reading on the effect that fire has on bodies. It doesn't take as long as you would think to reduce to bone. Once the soft tissue is gone, the body essentially falls apart. This site has lots of info on what happens to bodies when they die. This particular link is related to burning.What happens to human bodies when they are burned.
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Graphic
Article is good but I guess we can agree to disagree on this. We will find out when the autopsy is complete and if there are any cut marks or other evidence on her bones of dismemberment. Jmo
 
DI_Isokawa said:
My experience with mythomaniacs (which I think Chad clearly is) is that when they are spouting their stuff, they believe it. You could strap them to a lie detector and it would show no deception. When they're not spouting their stuff they may have doubts, but if the stuff gets results they resist recanting it and when another opportunity comes by they can't resist the spout+believe mode. So it's a little more complicated than they believe or they are manipulating. It's a mix of both. Which makes them so dangerous. When they're talking they are sincere and when they're conniving they're cold and rational. Elizabeth Holmes (Theranos - Wikipedia) was exactly this kind of person, IMHO, as were any number of fraudsters I've run across in my career.
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The expert witnesses in this trial—Elizabeth Holmes, too—are going to be a fascinating watch. Interesting that you might be able to use the same expert witness for religious delusion and high tech delusion.
I'll bet neither CD or EH cop a plea, either: because of what you're describing, a plea isn't within their realm of thinking. In your words, "resist recanting" = no plea to avoid trial. They think they're right and can't imagine anything else.
[I soooo look forward to a lively WS trial-follow on Theranos: CA - Elizabeth Holmes (Theranos) Wire Fraud ].
 
Forgive me for being graphic on this point.

One of my concerns has been the length of time since the deaths of Tammy, Tylee or JJ, potentially making it difficult or impossible to pinpoint a cause of death through autopsy (and additionally, the condition of Tylee's body).

When the document described the condition of the portion of JJ's body found in the plastic, it gave me hope that his body is still intact enough to be able to determine cause of death.

Investigators and prosecutors will need cause of death to tell the whole story.
 
FindingJoLee said:
I'm not sure I'm reading this right. Are you referring to a cause of death that looks like a pulmonary embolism...but isn't?
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I was a little loose there. My point could also apply to "results in a pulmonary embolism". However, for TD's death, in fact it only had to "look like a pulmonary embolism" for it to get past the coroner without an autopsy.

But my main thought stands..... the Zombie Cohort could have come up with their MO after researching and planning for TD's death. Their goal was to specifically mimic/result in PE because that would have been a likely cause of death for someone who sits around a lot while being a librarian and engrossed in Frontierville. Then, they had a concept all ready to go when they had to "deal" with poor Tylee and JJ.
Now that I think about it.... maybe CD was already into murder planning when in his blog he started emphasizing the Frontierville thing. That was years prior IIRC.
I'm thinking a lot of this pathology started way back. In HS already?
 
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In a report after the discovery of the children's remains, Court TV mentioned that the FBI revisited what had been Lori's townhome apt (#175, occupied by others at the time of the revisit) and searched a crawl space that had previously not been searched. It was apparently a hidden crawlspace beneath or beyond the main crawlspace. (ETA: The mention of the search of the crawlspace is around 4:35.)


Is anyone aware of the timing of that revisit and search? Is there any way LV and AxC would have been aware of that hidden crawlspace BEFORE they rented that particular apt?
 
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Live now .... streaming live.


Keith and Nate re Dateline tonight. Whoa they are doing well with social media! It's a new era. She met with Keith Morrison the DAY Chad was arrested. Kieth says LE not in a hurry as they are behind bars. Kieth said "we all kind of knew... but the finality of the children and the others involved in the case.. just so sad"


Whoa, he hems and haws about MG... and describes her relationship with Lori as velcro.

What is stated about this video below the livestream NOW on youtube is

"IDAHO FALLS — Dateline NBC will air a new program Monday night featuring the latest developments on the Daybell case and an interview with one of Chad and Lori Daybell’s closest friends. This is third show Dateline has produced since February focused on the complicated story that took a sudden turn June 9 when the bodies of Joshua “JJ” Vallow and Tylee Ryan were found buried on Chad’s Salem property. “This is such an incredibly sad story when you think about those children in the backyard – a place where the people living in the house would be going back and forth,” NBC News Correspondent Keith Morrison tells EastIdahoNews.com. “It’s hard to fathom how you could live with that right in your backyard.” Chad was arrested on two felony counts of destruction, alteration or concealment of evidence. Lori is charged with desertion of children and three misdemeanors. Court documents unsealed Friday detail the gruesome manner in how the children were allegedly found. “Her moment of unglueing, if I can put it that way, was when Lori and Chad called and asked her to lie for them,” Morrison says. “That’s when she understood this was all a sham. (Melanie says) Lori was like velcro. She took you in and didn’t let you go. She was such a remarkable embracing personality. I think that she certainly wanted to believe Lori and I think she went with what Chad and lori were telling each other as a number of other people did.” The show also includes interviews with Lori’s friends, David Warwick and April Raymond, and EastIdahoNews.com reporters Nate Eaton and Eric Grossarth. ‘What Happened to JJ and Tylee’ airs Monday, June 22 at 9 p.m. MST on NBC."
 
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RickshawFan said:
I was a little loose there. My point could also apply to "results in a pulmonary embolism". However, for TD's death, in fact it only had to "look like a pulmonary embolism" for it to get past the coroner without an autopsy.
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So....do we know exactly what was listed on her death certificate as her cause of death? (I just don't think being a librarian who played video games is enough to trigger even the most amateur coroner into using PE as a cause of death.)

What kind of things cause a pulmonary embolism but aren't in the normal list typical medical contributors? (heart disease, post-op, stasis, pregnancy, etc.) And, of those things that aren't typical causes of PE, which of them are something that you can get someone else to accept voluntarily or can be administered forcibly? Put someone else in a running car with the garage door closed? Get someone else to ingest pesticide?

I'm not a murderer, I know you aren't either, so I doubt either of us really know the answer to these questions. But I just think there are easier ways to kill people than to do something to (try to) cause a death from (in Alex' case) multiple pulmonary embolisms -- especially when it's been established that he had arteriosclerotic heart disease and hypertension.
 
Maybe I'm not supposed to comment on appearance, but has anyone else felt that gurus/cult leaders—especially the ones with a lot of women followers—are exceptionally frumpy? What's with that? I don't get the appeal at all.
 
As far as Chad's beliefs, that zombies/"dark" people need to be gotten rid of, when did Chad learn about these beliefs? IMO, it seems like if he believed in it, there would have been deaths before CV (like before he even met Lori). It just seems odd, as far as we know, that these killings started with CV via AxC. Again, JMO.

If Chad indeed shot a raccoon, why, oh why? Why shoot an innocent animal? It's not like there were crops of veggies & fruit that a raccoon could have damaged. If true, then RIP raccoon.

JMO
 
Deerrun said:
Thanks for posting this.
I too think Chad may have a past history of more crimes. Jmo
I think it great that they are looking into cemetery(s) Chad worked for. They have new equipment that can locate disturbances buried they are using per article. They are currently looking into the Kiplyn Davis case to see if they can locate her body at the cemetary Chad worked for and the possibility of his involvement. This case may or may not be a stretch but who thought we would be discussing zombies and the end of the world:eek:
The Justice Files: In search of bodies of the deceased
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My fear was Chad, knowing the operations of cemetery burials, he would have snuck in at night dug deeper buried the children in the open grave, Covered them up. The next day the casket of the deceased person would be on top of the children. No one would have known any better.

Yes, it’s possible I asked my friend who is a Sexton. She said anything is possible as some cemeteries are out in the middle of no where, no traffic, little visitors. She is a Sexton for several small towns.

So I am glad to hear that LE is looking into more crimes and cemeteries Chad worked at or had access too.

Thanks for this info
 
JoJoJoey2407 said:
As far as Chad's beliefs, that demons/"dark" people need to be gotten rid of, when did Chad learn about these beliefs? IMO, it seems like if he believed in it, there would have been deaths before CV (like before he even met Lori). It just seems odd, as far as we know, that these killings started with CV via AxC. Again, JMO.

If Chad indeed shot a raccoon, why, oh why? Why shoot an innocent animal? It's not like there were crops of veggies & fruit that a raccoon could have damaged. If true, then RIP raccoon.

JMO
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I think you're spot on that there may be more deaths related to CD and totally depends on when he started believing this stuff.

Regarding the raccoon... perhaps he said he shot a raccoon because he couldn't admit to actually shooting a child, which is what I think happened.
 
RickshawFan said:
Snipped for focus.
That's my point. A common cause of PE is "sitting around", resulting in DVT. This is why on long-distance flights you're encouraged to move around.
Heck, we could prolly get PE from too much Websleuths!

Here's a readable source for PE: Pulmonary Embolism: Causes, Symptoms, Risk Factors, and Treatment
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Do we know that she had a sedentary lifestyle (which I assume is what you mean when you say "sitting around.") Because being a librarian is not a sedentary lifestyle, librarians don't "sit around" and being a librarian isn't a risk for PE. (Nevermind that people who train for 5K's are don't have sedentary lifestyles, because...they're active.)

But, even if being a librarian and playing FarmVille until her husband had a vision otherwise were risk factors for PE, I'm still not understanding how that would play into her death being caused by someone else.

EDIT: A reminder that Tammy was training for a 5K, so she was active, not sedentary.
 
mommacass said:
I found this: Charles Vallow's ex-wife had concerns about Lori Daybell over 10 years ago and thinks his shooting death was '100% planned' | East Idaho News
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Nikynoo said:
thanks for this. So, it looks like there was some sort of custody issue between CV and his second wife. How likely is it that we'll find these documents online?
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I have not ordered them or read anything about them, but I imagine they would be in these details of this case. I would be interested for a reporter to get the details!

This case started in 2006 (I believe) with Lori and Joseph Ryan. Later Charles Vallow and Cheryl Wheeler were brought in.

Online Case Information

Cause Number
D-1-FM-06-004834
Case Status
DISM WANT PROS
Style
IN RE RYAN
Filed Date
9/22/2006
Hearing Date
April 24, 2015 01:45 PM
 
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