Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #44

[ReadyorNot]

yes indeed. Do you have thoughts about the crappy resolution of the first image? Possibly a thumbnail or degradation from copying? or maybe a reduced resolution after texting to someone else?

The first photo had only Alex smiling, and not Tylee, maybe Lori deleted it in favor of taking a new one. Maybe when it was recovered by the FBI it degraded it?

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

I was looking for info on Chad's upbringing and family history to see if something made sense to cause him to become what he has become. After reading the quote below, I wonder if he slowly became disillusioned with the church and felt it was a sham starting with finding out his grandfather could do what the prophets/apostles could do. Maybe his grandfather told him about this "meeting" to manipulate Chad in some way or convince him he needed to do something? He doesn't share what the meeting was about so I don't really know. But maybe he figured if they were using it for power and control over people, so could he. Also, it may not even be a true story. He then goes on to claim the NDE's and go on a church mission. So on one hand, he needed the church as a basis/setting for his special powers but did not need the church at all. So hard to consider anything that he said or wrote because of all the lies. Nothing excuses his actions in anyway. JMO

My thoughts came from this article, Everything We Know About Chad Daybell Following His Arrest in Missing Idaho Kids Case, "maternal grandfather, Guy Chesnut, who told him a story about meeting a "messenger from heaven" at a temple one day. The story seems to have stuck with Chad and sparked his belief that people on Earth could communicate with people "on the other side of the veil."

"I was a teenager when Grandpa first told me this experience, and it really had an impact on me. Up to that point, I figured only the prophet or apostles could receive visits from messengers. But I realized it could happen to common members of the Church under the right circumstances," Chad wrote on his website in 2015.

Receiving messages from heaven and acting on them soon became a part of Chad's life. He had two near-death experiences, one at 17 and the other in his early 20s, that he said showed him glimpses into the spirit world, as well as visions of what could happen here on Earth."

Honesty, that is a very normal LDS conversation. My mom told me about her "visit from deceased relative" from the other side of the veil when I was a teenager too. Moo.

 

[Jankee]

I'm so sorry Jankee, that you too have been pulled into their evil web. You are very courageous to come here and share, and I pray you also will heal from the damage that has been caused.

Thank you.

Oh Jankee, my heart breaks for you. Thank you for sharing how difficult this struggle has been, as that took courage and I honor your honesty and compassion for everyone involved. ((((hugs)))) I am sending warm beams of healing light to you and those who are have also been negatively affected in so many ways. Take care of your heart and give yourself grace. You were a good friend to Alex and he knew you reached out.

Thank you for your kindness!

 

[BeachSky]

Ashleigh Banfield ,on CourtTV tonight, said Lori is NOT on suicide watch.

MOO

 

[longtimereader]

Honesty, that is a very normal LDS conversation. My mom told me about her "visit from deceased relative" from the other side of the veil when I was a teenager too. Moo.

That is interesting. I have not heard that before. Are these commonly happening in the temple or told specifically to teenagers? Do you mind telling if the visit was told to you in order to get you to do something or not do something? I am not doubting your mom or trying to make light of it. I just wonder if it is a tradition or pattern that helps manage teenagers to stay in the faith at a time that when they might drift away. I know other churches have certain things that they do in order to do that. My last question would be if this is common, then why would Chad's visions be so special? Thanks for considering my questions and you don't have to answer them if they make you uncomfortable. I don't mean to put you on the spot.

 

[Rush4087]

A method of murder or suicide which might be undetectable to medical examiners? A substance possibly known to AC and which was easy to obtain? Here's my latest theory (warning: JMO, speculation, and long):

Prior to the release of AC's autopsy results there seemed to be two main camps within the WS community re: AC's death: murder or suicide. Althouugh there was no evidence at the scene indicating foul play, I think many sleuthers remained unconvinced.

In several posts before the autopsy results were released, I speculated that AC's death had been a suicide. My reasoning was that 1.) AC seemed too young to have suffered either a heart attack or stroke, 2.) AC was likely burdened by tremendous guilt and shame, and was under enormous stress, 3.) LV and CD were out of the country at the time of AC's death, 4.) AC might've felt he could protect his sister and CD and earn the admiration of the 144k by taking his secrets with him to the grave, 5.) AC might've owned a life insurance policy and wished to have some specific individual receive the payout (policy payouts appeared to be at least one of the motives in earlier incidents involving CV, BB, and TD).

If AC did kill himself, I think there is good reason to think he may have wanted to conceal the real cause of death. A finding of suicide might make any life insurance benefit payout null and void. A finding of suicide might harm AC's reputation among relatives, friends and the group. And a finding of suicide might later be interpreted by both the public and LE as an admission of guilt.

On the other hand, a finding of death by natural causes would likely confuse and hinder any/all LE investigations into AC or the group. AC could have feigned his symptoms of chest/lung illness in the week leading up to his death as part of a plan to conceal the manner of death (even in his discussions with MG on the phone).

When AC's autopsy results were finally released, I think many sleuthers were in shock. How could the medical examiner have missed finding something (anything!) in the course of the investigation - when it was known in advance that certain dynamics were in play in which foul play or suicide might very well have played a part in AC's death, and that if foul play was involved, certain imfividusls might then have attempted to conceal the true manner of his death?

Afterwards though, I stuck to my guns and suggested that AC had perhaps killed himself by injecting air (aka an air embolism), resulting in a PE. I theorized that injecting air had been used may times in past murders and suicides, and that the technique might leave little evidence behind for an autopsy to find. The problem was, while an air embolism might've fit in AC's death, it really didn't fit in TD's - and while we still didn't (and don't) have TD's autopsy report back yet, I'd always felt that she and AC were perhaps killed in the same manner (again, assuming both deaths were not simply due to natural causes).

Today while online I came across a method and a substance which I think might fit the circumstances of both both TD's and AC'S's deaths (coughing, vomiting, shortness of breath, chest pain, pink film). The substance is called HCF-134a (otherwise known as Trifluoroethane). HCF-134a is a common refrigerant, and is the main ingredient in "compressed air dusters" (aerosol cans of compressed gas used to dust off computer keyboards and interiors, electronics, lenses, machinery, etc). For those purposes, "compressed air dusters" can be purchased at any office supply store or big retailer. HCF-134a is also used as a propellant in air soft and paintball guns.

Intentionally inhaling compressed "air" (known as "huffing" or "dusting") from a compressed "air" duster can be fatal. Again, this is because "compressed air dusters" don't actually contain compressed air, but rather a high density refrigerant gas called HFC-134a. Think freon. In fact, HFC-134a has been used as a replacement/substitute for freon since the late 90's when concerns arose sbout damaging the ozone.

Tragically, some young people have died while trying to get high via "huffing" or "dusting". The high is actually hypoxia, which I read is caused by a kind of shuffling
of O2 and CO2 in the bloodstream. This condition occurs when air in the lungs is suddenly displaced by the denser HFC-134a gas as it rapidly sinks to the bottom of the lungs. Asphyxia follows, often occurring in minutes. I don't know whether HFC-134a (also known as Freon 134a) would be detectable during an autopsy or in blood panels.

I also don't know whether AC was an air soft / paintball enthusiast when he was living down in AZ. A quick search online though and you'll get the impression that Phoenix just might be the air soft /paintball capitol of the world. And then of course there's the suspicion that maybe AC was "paintball dude", standing and firing blanks (or missing altogether) at TD as she unloaded frozen dinners from the back of her SUV one night about 2 weeks before her sad death.

There are other compressed gasses (CO2) which are used as propellants in air soft and paintball guns, so maybe it's a long shot theory. But if AC was an air soft /paintball enthusiast, I think it's just possible thst he might have known about HFC-134a: an odorless, colorless gas - that kills quick.

Eta: A method that might've first been tried (with apparent success, if it was) on JR..

 

[MsJosie]

From experience, Chad would have had to have had a lot of tree branches to make a fire hot enough and long enough to consume the body. Where's he getting all those "limbs"? There aren't a whole lot of trees in that lot.
The other thing I meant to comment earlier, there was evidently a canine hit on a northern corner of that lot, near the fence. The searchers did follow up—even LIDAR and probing— and couldn't find anything, except stirred up soil. They didn't pursue that site.
What do you think this spot was? Raccoon grave? Accessories?
Right at the moment, I can't put my finger on the post that has the dog searches on Chad's property....

Remember the Kelsey Berreth case? Her fiancé burned her body using motor oil and gasoline. The fire was very hot, burned a long time, but residue was still left behind. PF got rid of that residue somehow. I have put a link and quote below. There are other links too, just google.

Is there any indication that gasoline and motor oil was used in this case? If just wood was used with a fire starter like for a grill, the fire would not have been hot enough.
———————
Patrick Frazee's ex told how his mother watched as he burned Kelsey Berreth's body | Daily Mail Online

‘She claimed that Frazee added gasoline and motor oil to speed the blaze and ‘poured gasoline into [a] bucket and pitched it into the fire.’
———————
Inside the Patrick Frazee Trial

above link is to entire trial...if anyone wanted to go more in-depth

 

[Jankee]

Long time lurker first time poster.
Didn’t AxC have a problem with opioids snipped by me

No way he would pass random drug tests and annual drug testing.

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

That is interesting. I have not heard that before. Are these commonly happening in the temple or told specifically to teenagers? Do you mind telling if the visit was told to you in order to get you to do something or not do something? I am not doubting your mom or trying to make light of it. I just wonder if it is a tradition or pattern that helps manage teenagers to stay in the faith at a time that when they might drift away. I know other churches have certain things that they do in order to do that. My last question would be if this is common, then why would Chad's visions be so special? Thanks for considering my questions and you don't have to answer them if they make you uncomfortable. I don't mean to put you on the spot.

I don't mind answering at all, I just don't want to go too far off topic. I would say it was more of a faith promoting story vs trying to get me to do something specific. It was not received in the temple. As far as Chad's visions, those were being sold/promoted to a group of people seeking information outside of the truth presented in Biblical scripture, and he was all to happy to sell it to them. Moo.

 

[Knox]

No way he would pass random drug tests and annual drug testing.

I think you mean "no way he had a problem with opioids" -not- "no way he could pass a drug test"?

 

[gumchew]

yes indeed. Do you have thoughts about the crappy resolution of the first image? Possibly a thumbnail or degradation from copying? or maybe a reduced resolution after texting to someone else?

Great question. This magnitude decrease in resolution IMO would not be accidental. It's possible LE intentionally downsized the image in the process of stripping the EXIF data as a bandwidth-friendly measure before sending the image out to news outlets, etc.

The other possibility is basically what you suggest -- considering LVD is reported to have meager tech skills, a likely scenario would involve sending or posting the pic through an application/website that automatically downsizes the original image. That could include posting to Facebook, Instagram, etc, or as you suggested, texting to another phone. Or even emailing it, which will often offer an option to downsize the image, again for bandwidth-friendliness.

If LE gained access to an Apple computer linked to the same iCloud account as the phone that took the photo, they could have retrieved a lower-resolution version of the photo from the computer, as the Photos application on Apple computers by default will store a lower resolution version of the image locally.

 

[gumchew]

I think you mean "no way he had a problem with opioids" -not- "no way he could pass a drug test"?

(bold words added by me to spell out the silent part of @Jankee's statement)
There is "no way he would pass random drug tests and annual drug testing" if he was abusing opioids.

 

[squareandrabbet]

My take on how and why Charles was rated a 3L (?) by Chad, has little to do with any kind of objective standard; and all such ratings were primarily steered by how and what Lori was feeling about the family member being evaluated at the time. I think it’s possible that at that point in time, Lori was either still feigning to be in love with Charles in front of Chad; OR, Charles at the time presented so little threat to Chad, that he could afford to be magnanimous about him.

 

[gumchew]

I think you are right about Lori wanting to see TD to scope out the competition. But in a small town I think she would have done something like follow her around the grocery store or something.

Nah, I think LVD would enjoy the illicit thrill--not to mention the feeling of superiority and control--of meeting and charming the wife of her paramour.

 

[Knox]

A method of murder or suicide which might be undetectable to medical examiners? A substance possibly known to AC and which was easy to obtain? Here's my latest theory (warning: JMO, speculation, and long):

Prior to the release of AC's autopsy results there seemed to be two main camps within the WS community re: AC's death: murder or suicide. Althouugh there was no evidence at the scene indicating foul play, I think many sleuthers remained unconvinced.

In several posts before the autopsy results were released, I speculated that AC's death had been a suicide. My reasoning was that 1.) AC seemed too young to have suffered either a heart attack or stroke, 2.) AC was likely burdened by tremendous guilt and shame, and was under enormous stress, 3.) LV and CD were out of the country at the time of AC's death, 4.) AC might've felt he could protect his sister and CD and earn the admiration of the 144k by taking his secrets with him to the grave, 5.) AC might've owned a life insurance policy and wished to have some specific individual receive the payout (policy payouts appeared to be at least one of the motives in earlier incidents involving CV, BB, and TD).

If AC did kill himself, I think there is good reason to think he may have wanted to conceal the real cause of death. A finding of suicide might make any life insurance benefit payout null and void. A finding of suicide might harm AC's reputation among relatives, friends and the group. And a finding of suicide might later be interpreted by both the public and LE as an admission of guilt.

On the other hand, a finding of death by natural causes would likely confuse and hinder any/all LE investigations into AC or the group. AC could have feigned his symptoms of chest/lung illness in the week leading up to his death as part of a plan to conceal the manner of death (even in his discussions with MG on the phone).

When AC's autopsy results were finally released, I think many sleuthers were in shock. How could the medical examiner have missed finding something (anything!) in the course of the investigation - when it was known in advance that certain dynamics were in play in which foul play or suicide might very well have played a part in AC's death, and that if foul play was involved, certain imfividusls might then have attempted to conceal the true manner of his death?

Afterwards though, I stuck to my guns and suggested that AC had perhaps killed himself by injecting air (aka an air embolism), resulting in a PE. I theorized that injecting air had been used may times in past murders and suicides, and that the technique might leave little evidence behind for an autopsy to find. The problem was, while an air embolism might've fit in AC's death, it really didn't fit in TD's - and while we still didn't (and don't) have TD's autopsy report back yet, I'd always felt that she and AC were perhaps killed in the same manner (again, assuming both deaths were not simply due to natural causes).

Today while online I came across a method and a substance which I think might fit the circumstances of both both TD's and AC'S's deaths (coughing, vomiting, shortness of breath, chest pain, pink film). The substance is called HCF-134a (otherwise known as Trifluoroethane). HCF-134a is a common refrigerant, and is the main ingredient in "compressed air dusters" (aerosol cans of compressed gas used to dust off computer keyboards and interiors, electronics, lenses, machinery, etc). For those purposes, "compressed air dusters" can be purchased at any office supply store or big retailer. HCF-134a is also used as a propellant in air soft and paintball guns.

Intentionally inhaling compressed "air" (known as "huffing" or "dusting") from a compressed "air" duster can be fatal. Again, this is because "compressed air dusters" don't actually contain compressed air, but rather a high density refrigerant gas called HFC-134a. Think freon. In fact, HFC-134a has been used as a replacement/substitute for freon since the late 90's when concerns arose sbout damaging the ozone.

Tragically, some young people have died while trying to get high via "huffing" or "dusting". The high is actually hypoxia, which I read is caused by a kind of shuffling
of O2 and CO2 in the bloodstream. This condition occurs when air in the lungs is suddenly displaced by the denser HFC-134a gas as it rapidly sinks to the bottom of the lungs. Asphyxia follows, often occurring in minutes. I don't know whether HFC-134a (also known as Freon 134a) would be detectable during an autopsy or in blood panels.

I also don't know whether AC was an air soft / paintball enthusiast when he was living down in AZ. A quick search online though and you'll get the impression that Phoenix just might be the air soft /paintball capitol of the world. And then of course there's the suspicion that maybe AC was "paintball dude", standing and firing blanks (or missing altogether) at TD as she unloaded frozen dinners from the back of her SUV one night about 2 weeks before her sad death.

There are other compressed gasses (CO2) which are used as propellants in air soft and paintball guns, so maybe it's a long shot theory. But if AC was an air soft /paintball enthusiast, I think it's just possible thst he might have known about HFC-134a: an odorless, colorless gas - that kills quick.

Eta: A method that might've first been tried (with apparent success, if it was) on JR..

How would someone get Tammy to inhale compressed air?

 

[gumchew]

A method of murder or suicide which might be undetectable to medical examiners? A substance possibly known to AC and which was easy to obtain? Here's my latest theory (warning: JMO, speculation, and long):

Prior to the release of AC's autopsy results there seemed to be two main camps within the WS community re: AC's death: murder or suicide. Althouugh there was no evidence at the scene indicating foul play, I think many sleuthers remained unconvinced.

In several posts before the autopsy results were released, I speculated that AC's death had been a suicide. My reasoning was that 1.) AC seemed too young to have suffered either a heart attack or stroke, 2.) AC was likely burdened by tremendous guilt and shame, and was under enormous stress, 3.) LV and CD were out of the country at the time of AC's death, 4.) AC might've felt he could protect his sister and CD and earn the admiration of the 144k by taking his secrets with him to the grave, 5.) AC might've owned a life insurance policy and wished to have some specific individual receive the payout (policy payouts appeared to be at least one of the motives in earlier incidents involving CV, BB, and TD).

If AC did kill himself, I think there is good reason to think he may have wanted to conceal the real cause of death. A finding of suicide might make any life insurance benefit payout null and void. A finding of suicide might harm AC's reputation among relatives, friends and the group. And a finding of suicide might later be interpreted by both the public and LE as an admission of guilt.

On the other hand, a finding of death by natural causes would likely confuse and hinder any/all LE investigations into AC or the group. AC could have feigned his symptoms of chest/lung illness in the week leading up to his death as part of a plan to conceal the manner of death (even in his discussions with MG on the phone).

When AC's autopsy results were finally released, I think many sleuthers were in shock. How could the medical examiner have missed finding something (anything!) in the course of the investigation - when it was known in advance that certain dynamics were in play in which foul play or suicide might very well have played a part in AC's death, and that if foul play was involved, certain imfividusls might then have attempted to conceal the true manner of his death?

Afterwards though, I stuck to my guns and suggested that AC had perhaps killed himself by injecting air (aka an air embolism), resulting in a PE. I theorized that injecting air had been used may times in past murders and suicides, and that the technique might leave little evidence behind for an autopsy to find. The problem was, while an air embolism might've fit in AC's death, it really didn't fit in TD's - and while we still didn't (and don't) have TD's autopsy report back yet, I'd always felt that she and AC were perhaps killed in the same manner (again, assuming both deaths were not simply due to natural causes).

Today while online I came across a method and a substance which I think might fit the circumstances of both both TD's and AC'S's deaths (coughing, vomiting, shortness of breath, chest pain, pink film). The substance is called HCF-134a (otherwise known as Trifluoroethane). HCF-134a is a common refrigerant, and is the main ingredient in "compressed air dusters" (aerosol cans of compressed gas used to dust off computer keyboards and interiors, electronics, lenses, machinery, etc). For those purposes, "compressed air dusters" can be purchased at any office supply store or big retailer. HCF-134a is also used as a propellant in air soft and paintball guns.

Intentionally inhaling compressed "air" (known as "huffing" or "dusting") from a compressed "air" duster can be fatal. Again, this is because "compressed air dusters" don't actually contain compressed air, but rather a high density refrigerant gas called HFC-134a. Think freon. In fact, HFC-134a has been used as a replacement/substitute for freon since the late 90's when concerns arose sbout damaging the ozone.

Tragically, some young people have died while trying to get high via "huffing" or "dusting". The high is actually hypoxia, which I read is caused by a kind of shuffling
of O2 and CO2 in the bloodstream. This condition occurs when air in the lungs is suddenly displaced by the denser HFC-134a gas as it rapidly sinks to the bottom of the lungs. Asphyxia follows, often occurring in minutes. I don't know whether HFC-134a (also known as Freon 134a) would be detectable during an autopsy or in blood panels.

I also don't know whether AC was an air soft / paintball enthusiast when he was living down in AZ. A quick search online though and you'll get the impression that Phoenix just might be the air soft /paintball capitol of the world. And then of course there's the suspicion that maybe AC was "paintball dude", standing and firing blanks (or missing altogether) at TD as she unloaded frozen dinners from the back of her SUV one night about 2 weeks before her sad death.

There are other compressed gasses (CO2) which are used as propellants in air soft and paintball guns, so maybe it's a long shot theory. But if AC was an air soft /paintball enthusiast, I think it's just possible thst he might have known about HFC-134a: an odorless, colorless gas - that kills quick.

Eta: A method that might've first been tried (with apparent success, if it was) on JR..

I respect the amount of research and thought you put into this, particularly into the thought process around AC's motive for suicide, if he did somehow commit suicide.

The problem with this theory, where AC is concerned, is that the ME determined that his death was from a bilateral pulmonary thromboembolism. This is an embolism formed by part of a blood clot breaking off in a vein, traveling through the heart and lodging in an artery in the lungs. The ME found evidence of this. I am not a medical professional, but I don't believe a gas embolism could be easily mistaken for thromboembolism by a qualified medical examiner. One is an air bubble, the other is a semi-solid mass of blood.

Hope this makes sense.

(edited for clarity and specificity)

 

[Michael0808]

@Michael0808
Hope you are feeling better.
Puppies are a warm feeling and lots of love but also lots of work LOL
Take care of YOU

Thank you! I’m doing so much better! Oh boy has she been work! But past the potty training chewing everything in sight mode and now into just being a 15 month old hyper, spoiled brat lol! She’s a character, never had a dog with such a big personality!

 

[Michael0808]

Catching up on all the new info in the thread. One of many alarming things that stands out is the ratings email. Insane. Just so crazy and blatantly manipulative. To someone who was also manipulating. Jmo

 

[gumchew]

A method of murder or suicide which might be undetectable to medical examiners? A substance possibly known to AC and which was easy to obtain? Here's my latest theory (warning: JMO, speculation, and long):

Prior to the release of AC's autopsy results there seemed to be two main camps within the WS community re: AC's death: murder or suicide. Althouugh there was no evidence at the scene indicating foul play, I think many sleuthers remained unconvinced.

In several posts before the autopsy results were released, I speculated that AC's death had been a suicide. My reasoning was that 1.) AC seemed too young to have suffered either a heart attack or stroke, 2.) AC was likely burdened by tremendous guilt and shame, and was under enormous stress, 3.) LV and CD were out of the country at the time of AC's death, 4.) AC might've felt he could protect his sister and CD and earn the admiration of the 144k by taking his secrets with him to the grave, 5.) AC might've owned a life insurance policy and wished to have some specific individual receive the payout (policy payouts appeared to be at least one of the motives in earlier incidents involving CV, BB, and TD).

If AC did kill himself, I think there is good reason to think he may have wanted to conceal the real cause of death. A finding of suicide might make any life insurance benefit payout null and void. A finding of suicide might harm AC's reputation among relatives, friends and the group. And a finding of suicide might later be interpreted by both the public and LE as an admission of guilt.

On the other hand, a finding of death by natural causes would likely confuse and hinder any/all LE investigations into AC or the group. AC could have feigned his symptoms of chest/lung illness in the week leading up to his death as part of a plan to conceal the manner of death (even in his discussions with MG on the phone).

When AC's autopsy results were finally released, I think many sleuthers were in shock. How could the medical examiner have missed finding something (anything!) in the course of the investigation - when it was known in advance that certain dynamics were in play in which foul play or suicide might very well have played a part in AC's death, and that if foul play was involved, certain imfividusls might then have attempted to conceal the true manner of his death?

Afterwards though, I stuck to my guns and suggested that AC had perhaps killed himself by injecting air (aka an air embolism), resulting in a PE. I theorized that injecting air had been used may times in past murders and suicides, and that the technique might leave little evidence behind for an autopsy to find. The problem was, while an air embolism might've fit in AC's death, it really didn't fit in TD's - and while we still didn't (and don't) have TD's autopsy report back yet, I'd always felt that she and AC were perhaps killed in the same manner (again, assuming both deaths were not simply due to natural causes).

Today while online I came across a method and a substance which I think might fit the circumstances of both both TD's and AC'S's deaths (coughing, vomiting, shortness of breath, chest pain, pink film). The substance is called HCF-134a (otherwise known as Trifluoroethane). HCF-134a is a common refrigerant, and is the main ingredient in "compressed air dusters" (aerosol cans of compressed gas used to dust off computer keyboards and interiors, electronics, lenses, machinery, etc). For those purposes, "compressed air dusters" can be purchased at any office supply store or big retailer. HCF-134a is also used as a propellant in air soft and paintball guns.

Intentionally inhaling compressed "air" (known as "huffing" or "dusting") from a compressed "air" duster can be fatal. Again, this is because "compressed air dusters" don't actually contain compressed air, but rather a high density refrigerant gas called HFC-134a. Think freon. In fact, HFC-134a has been used as a replacement/substitute for freon since the late 90's when concerns arose sbout damaging the ozone.

Tragically, some young people have died while trying to get high via "huffing" or "dusting". The high is actually hypoxia, which I read is caused by a kind of shuffling
of O2 and CO2 in the bloodstream. This condition occurs when air in the lungs is suddenly displaced by the denser HFC-134a gas as it rapidly sinks to the bottom of the lungs. Asphyxia follows, often occurring in minutes. I don't know whether HFC-134a (also known as Freon 134a) would be detectable during an autopsy or in blood panels.

I also don't know whether AC was an air soft / paintball enthusiast when he was living down in AZ. A quick search online though and you'll get the impression that Phoenix just might be the air soft /paintball capitol of the world. And then of course there's the suspicion that maybe AC was "paintball dude", standing and firing blanks (or missing altogether) at TD as she unloaded frozen dinners from the back of her SUV one night about 2 weeks before her sad death.

There are other compressed gasses (CO2) which are used as propellants in air soft and paintball guns, so maybe it's a long shot theory. But if AC was an air soft /paintball enthusiast, I think it's just possible thst he might have known about HFC-134a: an odorless, colorless gas - that kills quick.

Eta: A method that might've first been tried (with apparent success, if it was) on JR..

Sorry, just realized in my earlier reply I was zeroing in on your previous theory (injection of an air bubble), not the new theory (hfc-134a huffing). Still, the same logic and reasoning fundamentally applies to the hfc-134a with regard to Alex's death. I've read up on hfc-134a. None of NIH or other info I've read suggests that it can cause clots or pulmonary emboli. Further, even if the specific manner of suicide wasn't obvious to the ME, hfc-134a kills you by hypoxia/asphyxiation, which leaves its own telltale signs, like cyanosis and darkening of the eyes, which they would have noted in their report.

JMO/I am not a medical professional.

 

[QuietStrength]

I was also trying to do some research on that organophosphate (OP).
It seemed to be the best substance to create the symptoms of Alex and Tammy..., and because I thought it could be connected to the envoronmental waste that Alex dealt with.

But it got so complex, I think I gave up on that research.
Does anyone have a clue to this ever being checked in a tox study?

Organophosphates ("OPPs") are actually a group/type of chemical that includes herbicides, insecticides, and nerve gas on the "heavy dose" side and some organophosphates are actually used as medications (with a little lighter dosing than, say, a yard full of weed killer).

Generally speaking, OPPs interfere with nerve transmission by causing a buildup of acetylcholine, which, depending on the type of receptor affected and where it's affected, can cause symptoms like muscular excitation.

A mild/moderate reaction to exposure might be similar to the weird uncontrollable twitching you get in your muscles when you're very dehydrated, "fasciculations."

A more major impact might be tachycardia leading to cardiac arrest.

Those are just examples of muscular effects.

Acetylcholine is involved with many processes in the body - in the brain, in the tissues and organs, too, so there is a plethora of symptoms possible from OPPs interference with various systems.

Possibly less relevant, but still interesting - OPPs (of other forms - your Walgreens pharmacist doesn't have a 55 gal drum of diazinon back there) are also used effectively in medications when the body's ACH system encounters regulation issues from disease/disorder.

If you want to try to correlate the possibility of either cumulative (such as with AxC's job hauling toxic chemicals) or excessive dose exposure (intentional poisoning) start with the stated symptoms at the scene and work backwards.

I can't remember if AxC was or wasn't foaming at the mouth, but that's one - inhibition of ACH can cause excessive salivation (but not excessive salvation, unless you could be brougbt up on murder charges and need an out with an indefinite eternal destination?).

You might actually start with the Poison Control Center, as they deal with unintentional ingestions and should have lists of symptoms of certain toxins that don't require wading through a lot of medical-ese.

Many weed killers and bug killers will be OPPs, so maybe start with one of those and compare to the medical findings.